I think that I have an understanding of what Bethesda is trying to accomplish by removing classes and attributes. In addition, I think that issues with leveling and character class in Oblivion have been well described (eg. Custom creation of classes to slow/control leveling, Delaying leveling to acquire equipment before proceeding, Choosing a class that doesn't rely on the skills that you plan to utilize in order to better control leveling, and so on). But what I liked about birthsigns was that they allowed you the option to choose alternative ways to experience the game. For example, choosing the sign of the Atronach, where magicka is not regenerated, dramatically alters the way that you play and experience the game. Ayelid wells become important and as a player you become more aware of there locations on the map. The Wellkynd stones become important and there is added incentive to explore the associated ruins. More emphasis is placed on restore magicka potions and their creation, and as a player, you note where ingredients for these potions can be found. It changes the way the player approachs combat, sometimes stepping in the line of fire of a magical spell or effect in order to absorb its power. Choosing this sign creates a drastic alteration in the way the game is played and in the players strategy.
Many of the other signs carried penalties, bonuses, or abilities that also altered the way in which the player may experience the game (eg. The Lover, The Ritual, The Serpent, The Shadow, even The Lord). I am hoping that Bethesda does include birthsigns in Skyrim, but that they re-imagine how the associated abilites/penalties contribute to expanding the number of different ways that the game can be experienced. Anyone else have an opinion on the birthsigns?

They're already out

Yup, and for very good reasons.

I am completely behind bethesda in the slimming down of the attributes and the removal of classes however i still think that birthsigns were something that were fun and character defining without being a nuisance if you chose one that you later regretted.

Birthsigns added a bit of charm to character creation I thought. Even if only as a superficial thing, they should be included in my opinion.

i to know they are just trimming the fat but there should be births signs

The only birthsigns I cared about was Morrowinds'. The mage sign multiplied the amount of mana you recieve evey time you level. And the lover gave a plus to agility. Morrowind in my opinion was the best for birthsigns, the only one that made an impression on me in Oblivion was the atronach.

The Thief, The Warrior, The Lady and The Steed were all doomed anyway, since they're attribute bonuses. Beth would've had to redesign them at least (and probably a few of the others while they were at it), so, in accordance with established Beth design principles, they eliminated them instead.

I liked birthsigns. Even if they were set up to do very little in-game, I'd still like to see them, just for a little dash of flavor to the character.

If they were going to eliminate them though, I'd MUCH prefer that they simply eliminated them. This whole notion of the stars lighting up to match a character's progress is one of the most embarrassingly cheesey things I've heard of in a long time.

Birthsigns were really cool. It made your character feel special. I wish they hadn't removed them. But its not all bad, we'll like get a birthsign mod quite soon after the release

I couldn't care less for birth signs. In the past a majority of them were weak spells that could easily be replaced and could only be cast once a day leaving only 2 or maybe 3 "good" birth signs to choose from. Granted, for lore's sake I think they're really cool.

Why did they take birthsigns out? I think it would be fun if it was randomly chosen and they only provide a small bonus and only when it's the month of your sign

Birthsigns got axed along with attributes and classes. It's for the best.

I think that birthsigns could have worked if they maybe gave a small boost to one or more skills or maybe an ability. I enjoyed them in Morrowind and Oblivion regardless of their effectiveness which I was not keeping track of. They could have been worked around the drop of attributes and not just thrown away. It's probably one of the few things that has bothered me about Skyrim, but it's in no way a deal breaker for me.

I thought them being removed was just a rumour? [censored] hell, that's another chunk of character depth being ripped out.

Elder Scrolls VI confirmed for not having attributes or skills. Or characters.

They were redundant.

These conclusions sound totally logical... :rolleyes:

Good riddance. Didn't ever like them anyway, I thought it was conceptually poor and a largely unnecessary addition to the game (all the while removing the significantly more in-depth Daggerfall's character creation system for no convincing reasons to back it up). And this coming from a big time Morrowind fan, here.

Redundancy is a good thing, a thing to strive for.

Birthsigns as they were implemented in previous games were lame, but did add some charm. I'm okay with them being axed, but I think it would have been better had they simply reworked them to provide a sense of more character individuality from the get-go.

I didn't vote simply because I think the options should include something like:

o They were nice, but I'm not heartbroken over it.

That's too bad. It makes a person feel more significant in the fiction, and build more of an image in one's head about his character he is playing.

Its like complaining about Mars removing Red MnM's. Infact Birth signs are even less relevant then MnM's.

I liked them.
I am looking forward to a birth sign mod.

The issue with birthsigns is that there is the number of people who pick each birthsign is heavily skewed. How many people REALLY used The Lord? With attributes being removed, there goes half the birthsigns. There just simply isn't a use for them anymore.

That being said, the Atronach was a very unique birthsign that I feel they shouldn't get rid of. Perhaps there needs to be a quick quest at a shrine that allows us to obtain this power.

Edit: Perhaps the Atronach could be a perk?

Birthsigns have basically been turned into the visual eye-candy of the menu UI(Looking up into the stars)

Not much to do about it by now.

I will miss them but I don't think they are essential with all the perks we now got. Unless Bethesda goes in to full jerkmode and release them as a DLC.