First off, when it comes to decent story lines, I usually follow them well and try to get involved In the whol "plot" as much as I can. So this post is for people of similar taste.

ALSO! I have only played so far as to get to the institute and talk to "Father" for the first time and accepted no additional quests from them, so please no spoilers beyond that point.

So there I am, my whole time playing the game and all I can think is, "Screw the institute, Screw vault-tech, I need my son and I need answers." Everywhere you turn, you hear how bad the institute is, and well, if you put all that together it makes sense why they would be hated.

But then all the sudden, (spoilers for others ahead)................................................................BOOM, your in the institute and staring your "son" in the face. Or at least he is suppose to be your son due to a time lapse that you are not coherent with.

So suddenly now the institute is suppose to be the "good guys" (at least in your eyes since its ran by your son) and that its just a mega laboratory dedicated to reaching sciences potential and to restore earth and mankind to its original luster?????

Talk about a huge slap in the face followed by a kick in the groin. Especially since you have helped the BoS to the point where they are about to kick in the institutes door, and that your whole quest to solving the "what the hell happened to us in the vault and why?" has just undergone a huge Kardashian plastic surgery mutilation!!!

So now im stuck with......"What do I do?".... "Is he my son?"...... "Is what's standing before me what I have been fighting for this whole time? or is this just another patch of wool being pulled over my eyes?"

Nothing about the situation seems right and although there are connections, the evidence doesn't seem solid enough for one to make the decision of "Do I accept this and join my so called son" or rebel and "End all that seems wrong in attempt to remove yet again another fog of mistrust and deception caused by the unknown reasons and events of the vault I was in, and possibly, kill my son with question of, what if still hanging over"

Father explains roughly the incidents that took place in the vault and his kidnapping, and why they happened. But im finding large gaps there, or im missing something. Im still not putting together the real purpose of Vault-tech or if they had anything to do with the "Institute", or did a malfunction in Vault-111 really happen and the institute just happen to come across it and use what was left (Shaun)? Are they 2 separate organizations and incidences?

The main reason I didn't automatically join the institute while talking to Father is for the disturbing fact that, NEVER once did he use the word "Dad" when speaking to me, and that his soul seemed so cold in regards to me, his mother, the whole incident, and what was to become of his life in a whole.........................

He does later on.

Its a bit disorienting meeting your long-lost Dad for the first time, especially when he's like 40 years younger than you.

One of the best twists in the game. I love that plot line and how it complicates everything.

The xenophobic militants that have invaded another land because they want to kill people there for being scientists are the good guys?

Im a little lost on your statement since there is no detail on to whom your referring too or to what statement of mine that's suppose to challenge/question?

Brotherhood of Steel

You seemed to be incredulous that the Institute could considered the good guys after spending so much time helping out the Brotherhood of Steel, a foreign power currently invading the Commonwealth to wipe out the Institute and any other people they feel like because they feel like it.

Pretty much everyone has negative feelings towards the institute in the wasteland, not just the BoS. I don't think theres a point in the game prior to this where you can actually say, "Man those institute guys seem like really cool people." so naturally, you believe they are "evil".The BoS are just the ones that stand out from the rest because they are the only ones that have the power and might to do so.

But I only mentioned the BoS in one sentence which was just describing the dilemma of such a huge plot twist. I never said I fully support them or that they are "the good guys"?

My post was about the whole "plot" not my personal allegiance to one faction or the other.

You talked about how the Institute not being the evil it was being presented as (you know, before you actually got to meet the people in it) when you met them was a slap in the face and kick to the groin, particularly because you've been helping the Brotherhood get into a position to destroy the Institute. That makes it sound like you feel negatively about such a revelation. And the whole thing about about the quest being "mutilated" sounds very negative as well. To me, the idea that you seemed to feel so negatively towards these plot points, when you note that you feel this way particularly because you've been helping the Brotherhood of Steel, suggested that you had sympathies towards them and would thus seem them as the good guys, at least so far as the conflict between the Brotherhood of Steel and the Institute is concerned.

yeah this is a logical conclusion

You are really dissecting my statement as if you want to find out who I like.....as if its an actual big deal in a whole on who I think the bad guy or good guy is.

I was simply describing the enormous twisting of the plot throughout the game and how the question of "who to trust" really comes into play and makes a shift, resulting in a deep storyline that leaves room for questions.

Overall, I was stating how I like the game and the perspective it has created for me so far. Kind of was hoping to attract people who would help me fill in the voids I talked about to bring me to a clearer understanding of where im at now.

I said the institute is "Now SUPPOSE to be the good guys?" in question form and hinted that I mainly have been following the BoS quests.

But like I said, my post was about the whole plot and not a personal allegiance towards a faction. So the personal opinion of who someone else thinks I like is really irrelevant to this, nor do I care. So it would be greatly appreciated if this post wouldn't be filled up with responses of someone picking and prying on who I do or do not like. I mean, why do you care? And if theres a point to it, I don't see you responding with any facts or pointers on why one would consider the other relating to the whole plot and purpose of the game.

It seems your just upset and confused on why ive always seemed to think the institute was evil.......big deal?

Dont you think it was premature to base your assumptions of true institute off the opinions of their enemies and random people who are just scared of the unknown?

Exactly my opinion on the storyline. Everything you hear up until the point you actually meet the institute is just rumour and gossip. Maybe even small amounts of propoganda from the other major factions. The RR for example make huge claims about the institute based solely on what they hear from escaped synths, which is you ever actually talk to one can't actually tell you anything about it. And the BoS, knows nearly nothing about it but has no problem telling you just how bad they are.

I think it is done intentionally, and sometimes having a massive twist like that in a story can be a very good thing, if it is done right.

I read your post, and while I can understand your confusion, I didn't experience it. I very quickly became aware of how hard they were trying to make the institute come across as the bad guys and since I am generally skeptical I kinda stopped paying attention to the gossip.

i agree that it was likely intentional to set up the institute as the big bad while hiding their true intentions until you can ask them yourself

1) I wouldn't call a first impression response from reading your OP to be really dissecting your statement. I read it, I responded to it, I then had to elaborate on it on two different occasions because you seemed to have trouble understanding my initial post. Don't understand what you're saying after the ellipse, particularly the part "in a whole on who."

2) Yes, and that's what prompted my response. You asked if the Institute was supposed to be the good guys all of a sudden, and I responded in kind, asking if the Brotherhood of Steel (presumably the people who helped color your expectations of the Institute, since you were working with them) were the good guys. Considering how much what they told you about the Institute doesn't match up with seeing the place yourself, can you trust their opinion of it?

3.1) It doesn't really seem to be about the whole plot. It seems centralized on one specific plot point: That after spending so much time hearing people tell you the Institute is bad, you were surprised and perturbed to see that they don't seem to be the villains they were presented to you as, and you're not sure how to go from there.

3.2) Don't really know what the rest of this is supposed to be saying, but I'm getting the feeling you don't want me to be here. Sorry. When you made a post for "people of similar taste," (presumably those who like to get involved with the plot), I thought that you were looking for a discussion about where to go from there (including the possibility of remaining loyal to the Brotherhood). As for picking and prying, again, a quick scan of what you wrote doesn't seem to equate to that, especially when you yourself admit that you have been working with the Brotherhood.

3.3) Really don't understand this part "And if theres a point to it, I don't see you responding with any facts or pointers on why one would consider the other relating to the whole plot and purpose of the game."

4) I'm not upset and as far as being confused, the only thing that confuses me is why you seem to be so hostile toward my participation in this thread (and the structure of some of your sentences).

It's definitely intentional, unless Bethesda is so bad at writing that they keep accidentally foreshadowing things they don't mean to, but I also stopped buying into it very quickly. The Institute was treated as too much of a boogeyman for it to really live up to its reputation.

Your horse. Too high. There are no good guys in FO4 except for the MM but the start out weak asf and are as corruptible as the other 3.

Eh, why do you think you're supposed to see the Institute as "good guys", just because your infant son was raised to believe in them and is running the place? And, given all the things they do (kidnap people, replace people, send squads of deathbots around the world...), I can't see how you'd suddenly see them as good guys, either.

(seriously, when I got there, and Father said "we want to help, we're just misunderstood!", I wished I had the opportunity to shake him hard and ask him to explain just how all the horrible things they do are being "misunderstood", and how exactly is this "helping"?

I felt a similar way although aimed at all the people up top. It is likely that for every actual kidnapping, hundreds of stories are created. I spent the entire game with every person I met complaining about the institute and then I actually started talking to the scientists and reading their own terminals. Like gossip and rumours everything tends to get exaggerated when nobody actually know what really happened. A single kidnapping by the institute most likely ends up spawning hundreds of rumours, and suddenly when raiders kidnap people, it was the institute, when super mutants kidnap people, that was the institute too. Any time anything bad happens to anyone anywhere, well, you know the institute was behind that, right? The less people know about something, the more they fear it, the more they fear it the more they see them doing bad things, etc..

Here we go again.

It makes me wonder just how long it'll be before the moderators implement a rule similar to the "no civil war topics" rule over on the skyrim boards.

The only time I've talked about good guys in this thread is in relation to the OP. It seemed incredulous about the Institute being good guys rather than being evil after being indoctrinated by the BoS, which to me suggested that they viewed the BoS as the good guys.

I don't see any of the factions as good guys. I'm sympathetic to the Institute, but I don't think they're unambiguously good or anything like that. But I find their continued existence preferable to seeing them wiped out.

Actually, the lack of an unambiguous good faction is something of a problem for me. Back West, my favorite faction is The Followers of the Apocalypse, the only group that seems interested in trying to improve everyone's lives as much as they can without getting bogged down in politics and power struggles. I was really disappointed that the Abbey of the Road isn't in Fallout 4. They seemed like the group most likely to be devoted to helping everyone around them that they can.

The lack of dialogue allowing you to debate the ideologies of various factions, convince lower members to flip sides (or just abandon their group and join the Wasteland), and so on is one of my biggest disappointments with the game.

Make a game that forces you to pick sides as the main point of the story, then ban players from talking about it on their forum, please tell me they are not that silly.

I don't think the mods have ever had a hard ban, but if a thread goes for two or three parts and things get heated, they'll tell everyone to wait a while before starting the conversation up again.

The Institute aren't the good guys, they're not heroes out to selflessly save the wasteland no one aside from the Minutemen are selfless and that's only because they're re-built by your character so they can be as good or bad as you want them to be. The Brotherhood see everyone not human by their definition as monsters sentient or not, that includes friendly Synths, Ghouls and on the off chance Super Mutants; although besides Strong they're hardly any good ones in Boston. Once the Brotherhood achieves their goals they'll provide security in exchange for slaughtering potentially hundreds of sentient creatures.

The Railroad don't care about anything other then freeing Synths and slapping new memories on to them so they forget everything, who the Institute are, why they should be running and even the fact they aren't human. So they're not really doing anyone favors regarding the wasteland since Synths will eventually just get recaptured or killed once discovered.

The Institute while they have good intentions for Humanity's future don't care whatsoever about the current wastelanders, they feel they'll disrupt their activities, and plot against them. Which they kinda have coming, they replace people, unleashed Super Mutants upon the Commonwealth, and wipe out entire towns for resources or pre-war stuffs they need. Sure they'll re-build the world at some point but that hardly makes them good people. On and they enslave a race they created which then became too Human for their own good, and since no one wants to admit the truth; because let's face it if they did they'd have to come to terms about enslaving and treating an entire race like tools, and no one wants to admit they're a monster. So they continue to look the other way.

The minuten aren't selfless either. They are what you are and in my case, they're my instrument of power and wealth. My private army I equip as well as possible, to be ready against all the others. If that means rebuilding the wasteland, I'm fine with it. But I don't go running to every one horse town if they happen to be attacked.

Problem is, you can't make any real difference with any of the factions. They are what they are and what they are is written in stone. You can't even begin to turn the tables. For me, as a person, it's worst with the BOS. For some reason they remind me of stormtroopers, willing to eradicate everything that isn't human by any means necessary. That's revolting and I can't imagine to slip into that role and finish the game in support of that idea.

As for the institute. When I met father I was looking for a dialogue option to nail him to a DNA test. It wasn't there. Me, obviously in my early 30ies, have a hard time believing that wrinkly guy really is my son. And yet my character has to put up or shut up or put a bullet right between his eyes at first glance, which closes down the Institute quest line for good. You're supposed to become second in command with the option of leading the Institute, not undisputed, which is fine. But it has no consequences. Again, what they do is written in stone and so you could basically skip over all the dialogue and have exactly the same outcome. Which is not fine.

So, the only real choice is which kind of plague you unleash on the wasteland. Bigots in Power Armor or Master Racists in lab coats. Or, if you take the railroads, machine lovers with hardly any interest beyond saving an freeing a machine race.

Yeah, it's almost like real life.

No actual "perfect" solutions.