I am really a fan of them, their beliefs and the image that they got of being a shady and mistrusted "dark side" , but when you get in its a whole different feeling, they've lights, they have food, they have energy, even the other coursers respects (or even admire) you after you toasting one of them just to get within' their base, the scientist maybe doesn't keep you in exactly high consideration (but if you've high int and some perks into science well, you ARE a scientist, so they should be able to recognize you in a better light) but they somehow accept you, an outsider, among their ranks, up until your effective leadership.

Would be cool to have a dlc somewhat tied to the institute, their past, how they recruited Madison Lee, maybe a "find the dr. Zimmer" quest which may develop into a deeper discover of some more features and lore about the organisation itself (CPG incident, University Point) and its past, the reasons they went into the fev experiments with supermutants to me doesn't really fit the institute policy, seems a bit forced given the lore already existing about supermutants from previous games.

Also do the institute have any agent outside the commonwealth except the dr. Zimmer?

Would Virgil return under the Institute if it was given option to do it safely? (feels unfair killing him or leaving him there with a death sentence pending on him....)

Could we see also some deeper effects of their ending on the surface world as well...

There could be so much rooms of improvement , it may touch the railroad as well as they're the other side of the coin and both shares the undercover, underground, secret approach to the world rather than bruteforcing down everything they come across as the overinflated BoS does.

What do you think about it?

I am pretty sure that we will get at least the "Cyborg Department" DLC in future (which Shaun closed but whose head seems to be missing in FO4). That one may shed more light about them and their past.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the institute will be the canon ending.

What I wanna know is where are the people who got replaced.

I hope so.

Because otherwise they'd be brutally cut off scene and to be honest, they're too cool for that.

Add on top they're being introduced as well with their archenemy (the railroad) and well, another BoS victory would be exaggerately overinflated just as such.

But sincerely i expect the canon ending is going to be the BoS wiping out Institute+RR , sadly.

I mean, they've been reshaped that much, they are, by far , the ones with the larger playerbase and so on....they'd prolly recover somehow by the time the next FO comes, but anyway, it'd be cheaper, easier and faster just to have them win in the CW as well.

Thats why i'd say that would be cool to get more infos about institute and railroad before they'd get shut down and blown off fallout's history.

Also i feel there should've been a stronger behind the "lets reclude ourself down here and who heck cares about those surface guys that hate us so much".

Or just give us a reason of why the institute its that much feared from commoners around.

What they were looking for at University Point? should've been something well important, if they just blown it apart like that.

Surely not one or two synths who might have escaped there, a courser wuld have been enough if it was for that, with no need for other casualties at all.

No need to deploy an hundred of t1 synths and be tagged for a massacre by everyone else, if it wasn't, lets say, some powerful sat driven weapon? something related to teleportation maybe?

And why the Commonwealth accused the institute of everything that looks like more an action of individual rogue synths rather than the institute plans? hey, who'd care to replicate a random Art named guy who might be a common dweller, when pretty much everyone can make you a new face nowadays? or start shooting in the middle of Diamond City for no reason at all.

And about the railroad, how they did managed to get so much intel about the institute, so much up to actually tracking down Zimmer on his way to Washington, having contacts within' the institute itself, and why they didn't intercepted Virgil? wouldn't that have been a massive blow to land on institute plans if they'd did?

I'm ok with either the Institute or the BoS ending, indifferent about Minutemen, and I would hate if the RR is canon. It'd be the least improbable from a group on the verge of dying with little protection to destroying both powerhouses because screw reasons.

I'm going to be a bit salty if once again, I have The Brotherhood to thank for wiping out a faction that I really like. And is, frankly, far more interesting that the over-used Knights of Yore that are assisted (*sigh* yet again) by Optimus Prime. I honestly find The Railroad more interesting than the Brotherhood.

Honestly though, I really feel like Fallout 4 is setting up The Brotherhood to experience a decline. Maxson is over-confident and head strong, and you definitely don't get the sense that they're intended to be the strict "good guys."

Plus, frankly, it seems really odd for the Sole Survivor to choose a random organization that he just met over his only son which he and his wife clearly loved dearly.

Regardless, its not going to matter for awhile. We may never find out a definite canon ending to Fallout 4.

I just don't see the BoS being the canon ending. They left to much to be fleshed out with the Institute and by allowing the PC to become the leader of the Institute! I just don't see them letting all that potential go so the SS can be Sentinal ordered around by Maxson or Desdamona.

The Institute just offers to much from a gameplay standpoint to not be made the canon winning faction in the war. Not to mention they are basically the only truly unique ending as well.

There's so many times I just wanna smack some sense into the faction heads, but Father is probably the worst. He's your son but there's an extreme emotional disconnect. Here's your son fully grown and older than you who led a full life and is dying. Your son could never be the man who hopped he'd be you can never build that bond you would have had. It would depend on the type of character but by basing the parents reactions on the Lore base. The Nate and Nora fought for peace, freewill and justice. With Nate a Veteran and Nora a Lawyer. And here's your son who stands against what they believe in.

You meet the Railroad to save Synths from Slavery. You meet the Brotherhood to bring Justice to the wastes. While the Institute is neither peace, freewill or justice, they provide a better future built upon the blood and death of others. Sure every faction has their faults. The BoS does not distinguish between good and evil abominations for they are one and the same. And the Railroad are well meaning idiots but still idiots nonetheless as they truthfully do nothing to help the Synths who come to them, they merely reprogram them and send them off unaware of who they are and why they should be afraid of the dangers that await them.

I wouldn't say that necessarily. Nate might have been drafted, and doesn't appear to have a very high opinion of what he was doing in the war. I've never played through as Nora, so I can't say for sure what she says, but being a lawyer in the corrupt pre-war world doesn't strike me as *too* noble a profession. Granted, they seem like good people, but they also don't strike me as individuals who are heroic-do gooders willing to sacrifice anything including their own flesh and blood to make the world a better place.

Of course, that entirely depends on how people develop their own character roleplay.

Ultimately, Nate and Nora are driven first by a desire to find their son, its the primary impetus behind the main quest. They are parents. And while, yes, Shaun is a pretty amoral dude all things considered. He's also their son. Is he the son they were looking for? Well not really, but he's their son regardless. The baby they loved dearly and cared for so completely before the war.

Maybe its just my real-world views creeping in. But I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of turning against your flesh and blood. Especially when he's asking you to help reform the organization he believes in.

All yours said its true and i agree, expecially Shaun being different, but that couldn't be otherwise.

When he was taken, he had dodged the hardest path without knowing, he was put in a rather safe environment, where he had a better life, growth, instruction and whatnot compared to anyone else in the wasteland.

Prolly there somebody talked with him about his past, the vault, his parents, because he knows and talks with you when you confront him at first.

So hm, yes.

I mean, he seems colder than ice and well, thats to be expected, afterall its the first time he saw any of his relatives in 60years , and he has already enough problems to be focusing with, the future of the institute, the upcoming war, his own disease, he doesn't exactly jumps at you but well, he's grown man, grown all the way without you.

You come stepping into his path, not the opposite, you get to him, not the opposite.

We can argue about how this would make sense, then the offer that you can't refuse: join us, create a better world.

I mean, once you get there everyone's seems fine, they do can create a better world, because technology, because the doctor doesn't charge you for healing of any kind, because they can provide food to all the wasteland, if they'd stop hating on the institute just for a while, and start thinking out of the scaremongering box.

Now i am really getting into thoughts whether would we'd need a DLC tied to have either a "Zimmer's quest" or a "Virgil Quest".

With the premise you're the director when this happens, Zimmer would be a long discovering path within' the past of the institute, expecially the escaping synths, the university point thing, the provisory government, broken mask and so on.... maybe he fled after knowing he wouldn't the next director, when Shaun becomes it?

Virgil would be returning (still feel bad leaving him there, he's gonna die by radiations or deathclaws) but you'd have to investigate the whole FEV matter and ultimately rehabilitating the guy in front of all the others scientists, eventually through speak checks, once you recovered all of his datas, experiments and such.

If supermutants were an institute plan it failed hard, but hey, we could put Virgil's research into individually strenghtening coursers, or have the same implants that kellogg gets.

Why he does and we don't?

The institute has certainly made some mistakes in the name of science, however they seem to be the only group capable of actually fixing the surface.

I chose to focus on weapons designs as I envisioned an army of Gen 2 synths with the best weapons ever designed as far superior to Gen 3 synth production.

With a proper Gen 2 Army and advanced plasma weapons(that hopefully come in DLC) I think the world could actually be taken back, and with radiation proof crops and synthetic animals....the future looks bright.

Same as me

Gen 3 synths are strong, cool and all, for sure coursers are way more combat-reliable than common gen 2 but on other hand, the risk of losing them isn't worth to increase production, while weaponry well, won't betray you.

The risk of losing a bunch of those, thought, might hurt.

Imagine the RR or the BoS ambushing few well armed patrols, impulse grenades are crushing gen 2 synths with ease

A new-gen laser / plasman weapons? please yes :^)

p.s. the prototype A-18 its osom. did the mass fusion battle with it on survival and well, it just cut through everything i could happen to face, considering how allie doesn't exactly help for a sneaking approach and X6 has some weird concept of priorities, expecially ignoring when i point him a target, he says "ok", then immediately starts shooting to anything on the other way around, letting me alone against 2 armored knights , one of which legendary.

Well lore wise the only power armor capable of withstanding plasma weapons was the Enclave armor.

So a Army of G2 synths with a modern and matured plasma weapon(not the prototype stage one we currently have) would decimate a squad of Knights in T-60.

Even if they captured the weapons, they have no way to produce more or produce plasma cells. Only the Institute would have that capacity.

I always assumed they are killed after the Institute no longer needs them.

Bumping it again because theories, i brought X6-88 to Virgil's cave while delivering the serum to him (which i totally overlooked at my first playthrough) and, surprisingly, nothing happens:

X6-88 greets Virgil in the cave peacefully while he just would tear apart the railroad HQ or any BoS vertbird coming across, i brought him there 3 or 4 times , "finally we meet, Virgil" being the hardest threat he ever pulled out, being way meaner to my settlers than to a KoS ordered deserter.... suspicious at the very least.

Still something doesn't match to me, and this is driving me crazy trying to figure out reasons and backstories behind it:

- What if actually Virgil would've been sent out over Shaun's or directorate idea for some unknown reason-experiment, using the FEV with the intent of curing it afterwards?

- Wouldn't Virgil reasonably turn hostile in front of a courser who'd theorically want him dead in a blink?

- maybe somebody else within' the institute wanted him dead, but that not being Shaun who actively protected him ensuring he'd get, somewhat, cured afterwards due to your effort of tracking him down and so, keeping him safe?! could that be Zimmer's or any previous director still playing some kind of role in the institute policy, which caused Virgil to leave the organisation?

- Might he just have decided to be an institute-surface-agent to actually foresee his own experiments?

- The BoS wants him dead too, and there might be no alternatives for his future without the institute, IF you destroy the institute doesn't he refuse to speak with you anymore?

This thread has inspired me to want to restart my institue file over again because I rushed alot of things just to get to the endgame lol

"They're in a better place."

What is needed is to turn them into a mushroom cloud. End of story

Yeah I doubt it makes sense for your character to nuke things to oblivion and I say that because of their background you know. Seeing first hand what the atomic bombs did to society, why would you want to do that on the institute, yeah they are misguided society but I doubt the character we play as would actually wanna set off a atomic bomb.

How does that would improve anything is unclear to me.

I mean, detonating a -yet another- nuclear bomb in the middle of the few safe-ish and well secured liveable settlements the commonwealth has is going to hurt both Diamond and Goodneighboor, and thats just an assumption on the blast.

Admitting the area doesn't turn as a whole into another Glowing Sea radiations still gonna wage all over the commonwealth for more and more decades, meanwhile destroying whats might well be the most advanced and technologically developed area of all known wastes, a potential fev cure, multiple medical advancements and creating potentially a whole new level of "Synth Danger" as those of them who would survive would've no more guide nor chance to actually be stopped, they might be turning wild against everything and everyone.

I think the problem with the Institute is they're really not concerned with doing anything on the surface, they only want to spend time underground building their subterranean paradise. I'd love for a DLC to change this in the future but right now they really don't do anything top-side and I feel synth patrols and occupations are just to keep an eye on the surface dwellers instead of actually helping anyone. So if they do end up the canon choice that wouldn't really mean a thing as they'd be to busy staying underground

They're testing for crops that can grow among an irradiated area in an Institute side quest.

While i agree that there could be a major activity of the institute in the surface that might be started after the war, not while it is happening.

No sane person would leave his safe environment just to become a moving target for a vertibird or putting themself at risk among raiders, ghouls, mutants etc.

They would prolly approach the surface gradually once the war its over, i guess.

Eh, that's still really not hopeful. The crops I know about but the thing is, that could just be to produce plants in their own bioscience lab better or using local irradiated soil in order to expand their bioscience labs more but not actually sharing the results with the surface, especially since the result is to be recorded then destroyed after it's completed.

Like I said, i'd rather see them coming out of their little hole and try to improve on life instead of espionage, watcher and playing "not at home"

Yeah, and i agree with you on this, i really do hope they'd start out something more on the surface, eventually in a dlc post-war or something, as their whole lore is still totally blank and undiscovered and anything would be appreciated to clear up some bits.

Obviously having white clothed scientists around the wastes with both enemies still up won't be good, i mean, they'd be easy targets for any vertibird or heavy railroad member with a gauss, and scientists aren't as cheap as synths for the institute policy, thats why they buried themself underground as, besides of coursers, they're not really a fighting force.