Along the lines of the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1167983-integrated-items/ list I've compiled (with great help from the community), I'm making a list of all of the mods that add new creatures to the game (and only add new creatures to the game, thus it will not include mods like MMM that alter the balance of the game). The criteria here mostly parallels the Integrated Items list, except instead of items added to leveled lists and spawning in chests, etc. you've got creatures added to leveled lists and spawning in various locations. So without further ado:

• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17784 - description pending
  
  
• http://waalx.com/RealSwordsForum/viewtopic.php?t=249 - description pending
  
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26634 - Compiles a number of other mods that diversify (retexture as new enemies) many of the creature classes in the game. While it doesn't feature the original creatures that WAC does, save for a few here and there, it definitely ranks up there as one of the major creature mods. Because a lot of the other mods in this list have since been compiled into Creature Diversity, I've marked them with an asterisk to prevent unnecessary downloading of redundant material, and it should give you an idea of what's included.
  
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24143* - Adds different types of zombies, including Orcs, Elves, and Argonians, because why shouldn't they get to be undead too?
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12982* - Adds a few different types of mud crabs
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35913* - Adds creepy-crawlies to burrow their way into your nightmares
  
• Little Baron Water Beasts* - Adds some unique creatures found only underwater (viewable nudity; search tesnexus to access this mod)
  
• Water Nymphs - Adds [nvde] water nymphs to underwater areas (viewable nudity; search tesnexus to access this mod)
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9303 - Adds new wolves, retextured version of the original type
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28015* - Adds more wolves, because you can't have enough different colored wolves
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2465 - Adds even more wolves, proving my point
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28186 - Adds approximately 10 billion different particle creatures, some similar to the original wisp, others quite different and amazing
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12504 - Adds Baliwogs from the Shivering Isles expansion to the Nibenay area of Cyrodiil
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7471 - Adds various creature types from previous Elder Scrolls games
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36377 - Adds a varied selection of original creatures, including dinosaurs
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35186* - Adds new creepy creatures to undead leveled lists
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22925 - Adds horror-themed creatures roaming the wilderness (including a shark with skeleton legs, what the hell)
  
  The following mods feature non-hostile creatures:
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18275 - Adds rabbits and foxes to the wilderness
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2912 or http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4348 (either with http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=3445) - Adds various cats to the cities
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5276- Adds cats that chase also-added rats in cities (but is notoriously buggy, beware)
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14265 - Adds many different types of farm animals to appropriate locations
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3570 - Adds new kinds of horses spread among the already existing ones (search for Slof's Hive to find the latest version that was removed from tesnexus)
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6914 - Adds many new fish types to the waters of Cyrodiil
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30260 - Adds even more types of fish, expanding on AliveWaters

Remember, the best way to get mods that alter the same leveled lists to work well together is by using Wrye Bash.

Anyway, I'd love to hear about other mods that do the same thing. The Creature Diversity compilation has been able to incorporate a lot of creatures that only existed as resources, but I'm sure there are at least a few more creature mods out there that actually integrate them into the game. Whether it's adding them to existing leveled lists or giving them new spawns, integration into the game world is what's important. I don't expect to find as many additional mods as was possible with the Integrated Items list, but I'm hoping a few of you out there know about some obscure creatures mods. I've been pretty thorough in my searching (almost obsessively so), but even I overlook some things sometimes!

Ummm ... how can you include WAC and not MMM? An argument is easily made that a huge amount of WAC is just as loreless as MMM. Unless you just haven't encountered the smurfs in WAC.

In fact most major overhauls have new creatures (with TIE being the minimalist version in that regard), so OOO, Francesco, and both old and new Warcry have new creatures. And you will find that with overhauls they are often better integrated than some of the ones you list above.

So - again here I am with a bit of friendly feedback. The reason that overhaul makers get into adjusting stats for weapons and game settings and tweaks is to make all the mod added weapons cohere with the vanilla weapons and armors. You add a mod that adds a sword but then what is the point of having a special sword if it just does the same damage as a vanilla one? So a system is created to add it into a matrix that works and that often means adjusting the vanilla content.

Same with creatures - add a creature but should it appear at level one? If not then there you are reworking lists and possibly even addressing the lists of vanilla content.

Not saying I wouldn't want to see this list, but I'd include the overhauls too with a note saying how much more they do.

I for one was curious what happened to WAC. I remember seeing the screenshot of all the creatures long long ago, but never heard about the development of the mod until now. Thank you Palidoo! I was also unaware of some of the other mods such as Zombie Diversity! That is awesome!

I actually have been looking for a mod that ONLY adds creatures but does not make additional game play changes. Thanks for the post Palidoo.

All I don't like about WAC is the smurfs. I mean... smurfs, seriously?

Please tell me those aren't actually in the game and it's just a joke or something.

Well, lore isn't the issue when it comes to choosing to include one mod and not another.

Even if the creatures are better integrated in some cases, I feel like including overhaul mods isn't right for a list like this. And if you think about it it's kind of unnecessary--anyone spending even a small amount of time exploring Oblivion modding will quickly come across Francesco, WarCry, OOO, MMM, etc. My idea is to keep things simple and "modular." When you install an overhaul it becomes necessary to consider compatibility with other mods on this list. I'd much rather keep it simple and include only creatures. WAC may be big but it doesn't touch any of the core game balance, and the same can't be said for the overhauls. Do any of the overhauls have the option of adding just the creatures while keeping everything else vanilla? I'd be glad to include them in that case, but otherwise they just feel out of place to me. I suppose I'll add links to the overhauls anyway, but keep in mind I'm doing it against my own will! Seriously though, I appreciate the suggestion.

When it comes to stats and new items vs. vanilla items, I find myself agreeable with either configuration. That is, if a mod adds a sword that has the same strength as a Glass shortsword, for example, that's fine--now you have an alternative if you just want a sword with a different look but the same stats. If a mod adds items that fall in between or go above the vanilla stats, that's just as acceptable to me. It's like, there are only so many numbers, and more than anything the goal in compiling these lists is to add diversity to the game, even if it's just aesthetic. After a certain point item stats are going to overlap anyway, and if you want a game where each and every item has a unique purpose, that's getting into overhauls. And I think once you take that position it defeats the purpose of these lists being simple and modular.

I'm probably not explaining my reasoning behind these lists well enough, and may be misunderstanding your points; I'm pretty tired and I apologize for that. Maybe by next week I'll be able to convince you my strict rules for these lists make sense, heh.

There aren't any smurfs. But there are http://i51.tinypic.com/or76aa.jpg, which are very similar, except they're, um, green. I thought they were kind of bizarre at first but I've grown fond of my encounters with them around the various Magical Stones, where they typically spawn.

My biggest problem with WAC so far was my encounter with two giant, also-green topless she-demons. I'm not opposed to nudity in theory, but I can't take a creature that has briasts shaped like melons seriously. I also ran into another normal-sized topless "woman of the woods" but I believe her boobs were more realistically shaped. Still, I don't get the affection for these "forest-[censored]es" Waalx has.

Thanks for the list, although I don't know if I'd be able to use any with FCOM based on a quick look - at least not in a balanced way.

As for the smurfs in WAC, the cast photo shows a "smurf" and "great smurf" at the bottom. Are they not actually called smurfs in game?

Check my post right above yours. I should note that while I'm pretty sure there aren't any smurfs and that they've been replaced by greenies, it's possible there are smurfs hiding somewhere I haven't come across yet. It'd be weird to include two different tiny creatures like that, though, so I'm sticking with my belief they were taken out or never implemented.

I came across the image of all the creatures and the map of their spawn locations via a google search, linked to on a blog post that was like two years old. The most recent version of WAC was released at the beginning of this year, so I would only use those images as general ideas of what the mod adds. I'm sure stuff shown there has been removed, modified, new creatures added, etc. I requested some kind of updated list on the WAC forum but unfortunately Waalx seems to come and go at mysterious times, and hasn't posted on the forum since shortly after he released the latest version.

EDIT: For example, that image with all the creatures doesn't include the adorable RoadRunner. You can find red and green (and maybe others?) scurrying around the wilderness at high speeds likely for no other purpose but to make me smile, ha. http://i53.tinypic.com/5wczr6.jpg. Seeing that little guy sitting outside the gates to Skingrad waiting indefinitely really pulled on my heartstrings. Run, little guy, run! Be free! Actually, they're so fast and rarely stop, so that was probably the only chance I've had so far to actually do harm to one, but of course I could never do that, no matter what can be looted from them.

This is clearly not the case. A level one adventurer can go and get their head ripped off by top level predators like Hyaenadons, and also go and find very high quality weapons (which probably won't be enough to save you from getting your head ripped off by the next sabretooth tiger). This is clearly a different balance system to Vanilla.

Oh, and really people, get over the "smurfs". :whisper: The greenies and brownies are alternate retextures and have a basis in north European mythology, just because he's made a version with blue skin and white clothes, called them "smurfs" and never put them in the game (but has put them in some older pictures) is no reason to boycott the mod. :facepalm:

Vac

That is why I'm saying WAC is about on par with MMM - they both affect level scaling whereas MMM actually is closer to vanilla in this case.

But I hear Palidoo too about wanting to include 'other' mods.

But here is one that is small - its tiny, but deserves some attention: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36377

Then why not http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9866 - it is not like the creatures are as out there as some other things already mentioned. They are just not part of the main TES lore.

Here's a mod I've used in several games and have enjoyed: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2465

If WAC includes Smurfs and a smurf's village, one can normally find them in the TestingHall (just the Smurfs).
Waalx didn't include it in the game for lore's reasons.

I originally had Loreless Creatures on my list for inclusion, I have the file sitting in my Expansion->Creatures directory and everything, but when I double checked it I realized it was just a resource, as far as I can tell it doesn't add any of the creatures to leveled lists or anything. Unless what is says in the description is inaccurate or I'm misunderstanding and it actually is integrated?

Thanks for pointing out John's Creature Mod though. I'd actually come across it before, so I'm not sure why I didn't include it, I guess I just overlooked it or thought it was just a resource or something.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about WAC in comparison to MMM, "they both affect level scaling." Do you mean that they both include creatures that aren't scaled to your level? If so, that's not really the issue that makes me want to include WAC and not MMM. As far as I can tell WAC just adds to new creatures to the game world. There's a plugin to integrate it more with the vanilla leveled lists, but you don't have to install that. MMM on the other hand completely overhauls the way vanilla creatures work, among other things--it significantly affects the balance of the game in that sense. None of the other mods on this list touch the vanilla creatures or their behavior. They're all purely supplemental, and that's the idea behind this list (and the Integrated Items one, for that matter). MMM might be a great overhaul, and I'll definitely get around to trying it out when I do an FCOM setup eventually, but it's not a purely supplemental mod, while WAC, in its most basic form at least, is. Like I said if MMM had a stand-alone option to simply add its new creatures to leveled lists I'd definitely include it, but as far as I know no such thing exists, and I'm not sure it's possible to just separate its creatures from the major changes it makes.

Please tell me you're beginning to see things my way with regards to what's on the list. I will not be truly happy until Psymon approves! hehe

The only addition I can suggest is "Water Nymphs", on TESNexus. (I can't link directly to it due to nudity.) It adds scaly blue creatures that remind me of an aquatic version of a Spriggan.

Thanks for the suggestion, I suppose I can include it in the list without actually linking to it. Which makes me realize the Water Beasts mod I'm linking to contains nudity too (and I think the Creature Diversity mod since it includes the Water Beasts creatures), perhaps I should remove the link from it so as to avoid negative consequences. But then WAC includes topless female creatures as well, though I guess since there aren't any screenshots like on tesnexus it's a different situation? I should probably read up on the rules, heh.

And thanks Pseron Wyrd as well for the Wargs suggestion.

I just noticed I overlooked Vacuity's post before replying to Psymon, though at least I mostly understood what was being brought up. I'll grant that creatures that can tear you apart at level one is not in line with vanilla balance, but compared to the kind of overhaul MMM is? They're in completely different leagues. I'm going to add a link to MMM just to settle the issue, but I totally disagree that WAC and MMM are comparable in how they alter the core balance of the game. WAC's effect is that you may come across creatures too weak or too powerful for you here and there, which is a small, minor impact on the overall experience. It doesn't touch vanilla creatures and their balance. MMM overhauls the whole creature system, it has a major impact on one's experience. I just don't think they're comparable.

Ohh I didn't realize that loreless was only a resource. huh - well it is almost all in MMM.

WAC has most encounters unleveled. This means, as Vac pointed out, that you could meet a lowly lizard one turn then an unstoppable monster the next. Unleveled means there is no regard for the character level. Now the new beta from what I've seen has some scaling (spawning based on character leveling), but still a lot is unleveled. That is significant actually and can cause even more variability than what MMM does which is attempt to have scaling that is more reasonable than vanilla.

That is what I mean and what I was getting at before about how when you introduce new elements that there is a need to heed balance (of whatever variety) and so that often means altering vanilla leveled lists to do that. Say WAC for instance - you don't have to use the overspawn esp but if you don't then there will not be as great a blending of vanilla and WAC. If you use it then it is yes: affecting vanilla leveled lists.

So say a mod adds balrogs - powerful creatures. Within WAC (where they are not) you might meet one right off, but in MMM their chance of being met is scaled to you. You tell me which has a greater impact on playing.

I'm not 100% on this but I don't think MMM by itself (and not in and FCOM variety) changes the difficulty that much for a game and other than new NPCs (as both enemies and other adventurers) it is mostly creatures and monsters. You don't have to use extra wounding, hunting and crafting and such. It has the best waterlife integrated too. Even bg2408 http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=820948&hl.

It is your list and I realize you kid when you wrote about pleasing me, but I like lists for the help they provide and I'd think others who use your list might appreciate the linking of mods that you may not prefer. Plus you have editorial ability to describe away what you consider a danger. But it is a bit of a snub to the overhauls to say that they are not integrated ... that is exactly what they are attempting.

I'll check some of these out. You can never have too many creatures or weapons

Actually it was only a half-joke about getting your approval. I didn't mean it as a snarky [censored] comment; I really would like to end up on the same page!

But I agree with what you're saying here, which is why I'm going to add MMM to the list. Whether it's classified as an overhaul or not, what it's doing is overhauling how you encounter creatures and how they behave. So it's, um, an overhaul, haha. I hope you can understand why I think that's very different from what WAC is doing though, even if WAC's addition of unleveled creatures brings into consideration balancing on the leveled list side of things. However with what I have installed of WAC at the moment, it's pretty much just a few extra encounters here and there and effectively alters the gameplay very little. Whereas with MMM every encounter has been modified in some way, even if the end result is well-balanced. Totally an overhaul!

Now the tough part: deciding if MMM should go at the top of the list or at the bottom. A very important decision.

Also, I remembered I was going to include non-hostile creatures like the extra animals (rabbits and foxes, the latter of which I've never seen despite having the mod installed forever) and farm animals, Slof's Horses, AliveWaters, etc.

Does this one meet your criteria? :shrug:


Oblivion Cats:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2912

I used it in my game for a couple of years, and during much of that time, I modified it with Domestic Cat Heads:
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=3445

There's also this one which I kept meaning to try out, but never got around to. House Cats:
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=5526

Thanks! That first Cats mod is another I've got sitting in my Expansion->Creatures directory that I completely overlooked, so it's good you pointed it out, who knows how long it would have been until I discovered the omission, heh. Actually, I just checked and I have the latter mod sitting around as well in my unsorted folder. I'll probably include it as well, I just don't want to start including "pet" mods, so I'm trying to determine the exact nature of the mod. I thought about including Cats and Rats, but it's notoriously buggy, though I should probably include it anyway in case people are interested.

Anyway, the list has been updated to include MMM and a number of non-hostile creature mods.

Where does it say that MMM is static level? Are you sure your not confusing regular FCOM or MMMforOOO information.

Is MMM by itself static leveled? I didn't think so.

Also this is the best option I've found for Slofs horses: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27675

Just found this one lurking in the very long list of files downloaded and never tried out. Some if not all seem like they might fit well in the game.

I give you.... 20 Horror-Creatures... :chaos: (I added the caps just to tone it up a bit):
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22925

In the description for MMM on tesnexus it says, "Statically scaled leveling -- meet creatures and NPCs more powerful than you, and less powerful than you, regardless of your level as you level." Am I misunderstanding this in any way?

I can't really include that horse mod in the list because it doesn't add anything to the game--it's just replacement textures for the vanilla horses. The full Slof's Horses mod, which I actually do have installed unlike a lot of these mods I'm waiting until later to use, adds new horses to all the various stables and I think it might add some wild horses as well. Thanks for the suggestion though, I might actually use those textures myself anyway.

Also, copied from the Integrated Items thread: Does anyone know who I'd get in touch with to get a [LIST] tag added to this and the Integrated [Items] threads? I should have done it initially of course, but having "list" in the topic name will be really helpful for people searching the forum.

I dunno who to ask - not sure if it matters.

Rohugh is usually pretty cool but then they all are ... right :thumbsup:

I've never used MMM by itself so learn something new everyday.

I thought only the slofs add on was adding new and that slof regular was altering only.

Also might want to post about your lists in the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1010109-list-list-of-mod-lists/ thread.

First off, you appear to be confused by the meaning of "overhaul" being used in this forum. http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=820948&hl, and the short answer is that what people call an overhaul is a mod that changes level-scaling in some way. WAC does that, MMM does not, therefore WAC is an overhaul, but MMM, despite making numerous changes to the game, is not an overhaul in the context people use on these forums.

Secondly, I'd hardly call meeting sabretooth tigers and hyaenadons at level 1 or 2 a "minor impact" on my game experience, In MMM the worst I'll meet from MMM is a different kind of rat or some implings along with the imps, in WAC I'm likely to meet something completely and utterly unbeatable at low levels. Repeatedly. That's not a minor impact. Equally, if you were to meet and bump off one of the undead lords (probably using the console because I don't think you'd manage it in combat at level 1), you'd find yourself in possession of an extremely powerful weapon like Volfindaar or Yolfindaal. That's no small impact on your gameplay either. From MMM? A different kind of rusty iron longsword?

Thirdly, WAC does change vanilla content in various ways; it alters leveled lists, it also swaps vanilla spawn points for WAC specific spawn points as well as adding its own. It's not merely adding to vanilla content, though it's not changing as many vanilla records as MMM, I'd argue the changes it makes (level scaling of encounters and equipment) have a much bigger impact on gameplay.

Vac

Edit:I can see where the confusion comes from, I'll see if I can get the documentation altered for the next release. It is true that you will meet opponents of a wider *range* of power around your own level, i.e. you'll meet opponents earlier on than you would in vanilla, and you'll continue meeting them for more levels (whereas they would have completely dissapeared long since in vanilla), but MMM is not statically leveled like a mod like OOO is, no.

And you need to contact a moderator to get the thread title changed.

Edit 2: for spelling