Basically, without having a list ahead of time, the first character will end up being a throw away character...

what a waste.

If you get you're way, I'm screwed.
If I get my way, you don't HAVE to look.

If Brink was cross platform with Pc, I wouldnt buy it. Simple as that, I dont have extra mice and keyboards lying around to use with the 360, and even it worked, I would still use my controller.

just taking a shot in the dark and saying you posted that on the wrong thread.

eerrrmmm, yah lol

isn't that real life lmaoo

Move doesnt exist yet so its completely invalid, as well as 90% of your arguments, some done even make sense... Have you ever even seen/used high end PC gaming gear? I'm not biased either, i'm an avid console player as well as PC, and i've studied the control advantages of both. I cant say never, but rarely has a controller ever been superior to a mouse/keyboard setup in an FPS. Every last point i made you somehow made a construed argument, such as having to move your fingers, and somehow the joystick, rotating on a tilt axis, doesnt have to center before changing directions... I'm not talking from moving left to up, i'm talking up to down, and left to right... I wasnt gana but i think to make a valid response i'll put in the extra work and do some quotes...



Key RATE doesnt matter. Also, the response time post activation is negligible, even with the console controllers being wireless... I'm talking miliseconds of difference, so no problem there.

And no, unless your a moron and chicken peck the wsad keys, you dont move your fingers. Atleast no more then one would on a controller. A 1mm depression is far superior to a 90 degree, 1 CM (at top... you know where your thumb is since unless your thumb is built into the stick its not at center) rotation/movement. The only compairable lag is moving your middle finger from W to S... your ring and index RARELY leave the A and D keys... Also, your pinkey and thumb can activate the shift, ctrl, alt and space keys, of which usually only 2 are used (shift and space, sometimes alt) so theres 2 more dedicated controls you never have to leave. Crouching is usually eaiser too, since with most FPS, your jumping with space and crouching with alt, basically you RARELY do both at the same time so its no problem. most games make you either leave your right stick to press a button, or depress one of the two sticks (which adds unnecessary force to the stick in question, frequently moving it, and again is generally more difficult, though probably more intuitive for some)

I dont have my original research docs, but the average TESTED response time for the movement stick vs wsad was about 150ms left and right... Going from W to S was, true, a bit slower, but only around 30-50ms...

I also found that depressing the sticks, if not done JUST right could jitter the joystick up to 10%, due to the amount of pressure needed to activate it. Of course this will vary controller to controller, but never enough to make it negligible. Not much can really be done about this, or it would make it prone to "accidental" presses...



No clue wtf your talking about. My pad is upwards of 10x10 (never measured it) inches, about the same aspect ratio as a screen... If your doing a FPS with a touch pad then you need to die... I dont know what aspect of movement your talking about... If you mean to compare the amount of movement needed on a controller to that of a mouse to move an equal distance, thats 100% dependent on the mouse DPI and your sensitivity settings... If thats it, then this point is again 100% invalid. You do need to lift the mouse from time to time, but high end gaming mice (razers) make this a negligible action. YEAH it can create some inaccuracies if you need to lift it at a bad time... Though again, its not a question of sensitivity, but a question of responsiveness and accuracy, which the mouse excels in.

However, accuracy is something that couldnt be measured properly... though on all fronts most people will agree that the mouse is far more intuitive, which is a major factor. Getting used to an exponential sensitivity factor on controllers takes abit of time, and is frequently done poorly as to even make the exponential marks obvious... Forgot what it was, but the worst case scenario i saw, the movement at 50% stick would jump super obviously by about 20%... Like, there was a dead clear line that you would just start turning faster, which you couldnt do anything about and it threw everything off...

Unfortunatly i ran out of time, i'll bbl...



actually it is why alot of peoples aiming is off... The fact is, its unintuitive. You dont pickup a controller for the first time and expect to handle the exponential sensitivity with much grace... With a mouse, accuracy is a reaction time issue, less so a sensitivity issue. But true, as you said, most GOOD players will naturally correct for this, though point is more factors are involved in a controller, pressure, sensitivity, exponential, then are on a mouse...

And again, yeah sure the stick autosnaps to zero, but it doesnt mean you dont have to cross it. It still takes more time, usually around 20-30 or so ms, for a controller to reverse direction then a mouse.

Cant believe i forgot to mention this, but... I'd promise anybody 1000$ that if you were to rotate your character 360degree one way, then 360 degree the other way, a mouse will ALWAYS be faster... It takes a controller SIGNIFICANTLY more time to aim, period. Upwards of a second more in extreme circumstances... This is where all those variables, all those 10, 20, 50 100 ms differences maybe be negligible on their own, but trust me, they add up fast...

Dont take it that i'm just spewing BS either. As i said i'm an avid PC and console player, and ive done actual research on the topic.




Agree here. Ive always, and always will unless something dramatic comes about, feel more immersed on the PC. Its about whatever you make your home on. If youve always played and loved consoles, of course you'll generally have a better experience, and if your a PC at heart, you'll enjoy games on pc more. Generally... Some cross overs just dont work, of course. Some things are just fact, but enjoyment isnt one of them.

EDITS

Anyone who has tried to compete on the XBOX against a PC opponent in counter strike can tell you that the console controls are just too slow.

I'm not talking crap on anyone's reflexes or reaction times but the precision and speed you get with KB/Mouse is far superior to a consoler game controller.

Remember spinning in a circle at half speed to face the enemy behind you? Right... It would just be unfair, however I think XBOX vs PS3 linked servers would be a welcome feature.

^^^^^^
This I'm a PC player and I can really tell the difference between moving on console and PC then again I also have a special gaming mouse too. But yeah I think PS3 and 360 should be able to play against each other if PC was able to play either it would not be a good sight.

I actually hail from PC... only gone to console really in the last couple years. I mean, I always had one, but I used to game first on PC, then on Console for console exclusives....

only recently have I gone full on console.... largely in part to lack of $$$... but I actually find the slower aiming more fun... personally



Shadowrun is another good example

360&PS3 would work technically, but neither platform will allow it.

I wouldnt mind 360 and ps3 crossplay, but for the love of god not against pc players. Its just not fair. I've been down that road when I played shadowrun.

A four step test you can do at home to see a small taste of what everyone else has been talking about.

Step 1: Take your mouse right now and see how small a movement you can make to the left or right. It is almost effortless to only move it one or two pixels in a moment.

Step 2: Load up your favorite shooter and do the same. I assume you will have to put in a LOT more effort and a lot more thought into making these minor movements. Assuming you don't just jump 10-20 pixels to a side.

Step 3: Imagine someone on a keyboard and mouse trying to aim for your head while you, on the console, try to aim for his head.

Step 4: Imagine how much fun all that re-spawning will be.

What I tell console only players is.... "How fast can you click on a button on a web page?" "Now imagine that was someones head....."

console wars will always exist, pc-gamers know a pc is best, (some) console-gamers believe their consoles are at least as good as a pc. be it about controls or not.
i'm not going to touch those subjects and go to a different one

as far as i have understood, xbox-live requires monthly payment, letting them link up with pc-gamers(wich also pay) shouldn't be too much of a problem, or at least, if the xbox players don't pay to the company making those xbox'es, but to internetcompanies.

i could be wrong, but i believe psn is free, wich means putting them together with pc-gamers and/or xbox-gamers would be a dumb thing to do, i can totally see the psn-users laughing(and irritating) those "dumb"people that are actually paying to play together with others. people are actually that small-minded.

and to show i can't keep my word :chaos: i will touch the subject anyway, pc-gamers would totally wreck the console gamers, but opening a console link would make the pc-gamers very angry, since they'd be left in the cold
if you don't believe me, go to a friend's house(or whatever), play a fps on the computer using a xbox-controller(wich i believe is compatible, i actually saw a guy asking if a certain game would allow him to use his xbox-controller[it was a fps for god's sake!!]) on multiplayer.
don't be a sore loser though

I've actually hooked up a 360 controller to a pc and played fps's online. I wasn't completely destroyed, I was never first at the end, but I was never last. It is possible to put up a fight, but if your playing against experienced pc gamers there no chance of winning with the controller. Just my experience with it.

I would agree with the assessment that the Kb/M combination is far better in terms of accuracy etc I used to love playing with friends on the Xbox and PS3 (halo etc) but then I tried Borderlands...I loved it and really enjoyed it BUT then I got it on my PC (which is terrible, lagged, crap mouse) and I was amazed. On the Xbox I Could pull off headshots reasonable well...on the PC I got a headshot every time I aimed at someone (this is with sniper rifles on both) the difference was frankly ridiculous. The mouse was so much more accurate that the game virtually became a cakewalk. Since then I have not really been able to get into any console game due to how clunky and as others have said "un-intuitive" I find the controls. That was my eye opening experience anyway

Has anyone else found anything like that?

Also think of it this way some PC gamers like me are really really quick on the trigger, for example people say in l4d2 I can fire dual pistols faster than some of the assault rifles and that is pretty fast.

Lets just hope your aim is good then. Cause otherwise ur trigger finger is useless

Exactly the same experience, exactly the opposite response.



I find using a mouse far to easy.... head shots are like clikcing a button on a browser... yes, its that easy and I went there.

Obviously PC's are technically more powerful... but if you had a system that you bought for $300 back in 2004-05 or whatever.... it would be a worthless POS that could barely run IE8....


Also, 360 are the only ones who pay to play online...

well, PC CAN pay... if they want to rent their own private server... but you don't need to (I wouldn't...) and in fact most don't. (otherwise there would be hundreds of thousands of 1-2 man games )

Now I am actually on 360... and yah, sub fees svck, but it's a fairly low fee so it doesn't bother me TOO much.... 360 vs PS3 fanboyism is BEYOND idiotic TBH. just go with whatever system has; a more comfortable controller (for you), has more friends on it (IRL friends), has the exclusives you want.

That's it.... Oh, and PS3 if you want bluray... which, despite popular belief, actually has no human perceivable effect unless you have a 52"+ tv and at LEAST a 5.1 surround, though really 7.1 surround system (ie; thousands of $$$$ in entertainment hardware). HDDVD already maxes out 46"ish and damn close to maxes out 5.1 surround sound capabilities.

So, if you are like 75-90% of America and can't afford that level of an entertainment system, Blu-Ray is actually meaningless (and just more expensive movies).


Before someone calls me a really devoted fan... I should note that I actually despise MS. I got 360 due to IRL friends, the controller (I can't stand the dual shocks... too small IMO) and, at the time, up front cost.

Anyways, I've gone a bit offtopic in my ranting... OT:
PS3 and 360 would offer a compatible cross gaming experience, however Sony and MS will NEVER go for it.
Microsoft does allow games for windows and 360 games to have cross over gameplay, however as noted, mouse aim has an EXTREME unfair advantage in ease and speed of aim. (again, that does NOT make for a better experience, but a different experience. Don't confuse the 2)