I have decided to make a separate thread for this, so that for starters it doesn't clutter bg2048's thread, and also so I can get some input. ideas regarding this project here.

Original post onhttp://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1089735-relz-integration-the-stranded-light/page__st__140



This is an addon/fanproject for bg2048's Integration: the Stranded Light. The goal of this project is to make playing as non-beth races from Races Ballancing Project (IE playing as a Daedric race, an Ohmes Raht, or a Maromer) far more immersive and to change certain Beth dialouges to fit the various backstories of bg2048's mod without changing the nature of the quests themselves.

The point of this thread is for the community to input a few ideas for this addon/project.

If someone had ideas for some other alternate dialogue, please PM it to me, do not reply here. Please include the following Info:

1. What is the normal dailogue/topic?
2. Who says it?
3. When does (X) Say it?
4. What different dialogue should they have in this situation?
5. What should trigger this change? (IE being a daedric race, an Ohmes Raht, being famous, completing a certain quest, etc)

Note: DO NOT:

- Propose quest changes OTHER than dialog. IE do not make the Mages Guild refuse entry because you're a Daedra. Instead, they should say something about the matter, but let you join anyway. I DO NOT aim to change the nature of the quests. Just how the characters present them through dialog. (NOTE: The ONE exception I might make if I make an addon for it, is denying daedric characters the chance to start the knights of the nine quest, simply because being a Daedric crusader for the Aedra makes about as much sense as Mehrunes Dagon repenting for his sins and handing out cotton candy in the imperial city.). Though since I can't even figure out how to make addons for DLCS without my CS crashing, that might be a ways away yet. Other than that, NO QUEST CHANGES OUTSIDE OF DIALOGUE!)
- Make up new topics/quests. Ideas for new integration quests and dialogs goes to integration's original author bg2048, not me. This addon is about changing existing dailogs to be more immersive, not making new ones.
- No major spoilers for Integration or stock quests please. IE don't have martin right away reveal .


FAQ:

Q: What will this require?
A: For the moment, Races Balancing Project and Shivering Isles. However, while at the moment it will only require those two, it is meant as an addon to Integration the Stranded Light, so some of the dialog (IE the stuff about Martin's past and the Suthay Decree) might not make much sense unless you've played that.

Q: Will there be a version for players without shivering isles?
A: No. First of all it will hopefully also reference Integration events more directly in the future, so in the future it will require Integration: The Stranded Light (and consequently, Shivering Isles). But for now it only needs Race Ballancing Project.

Q: Will this work with Cobl Races?
A: No. Besides, Cobl Races is just an outdated version of Races Ballancing Project. Get RBP instead.

Q: Will you be referencing Integration The Stranded Light events too? Or will these changes be simply revolved around what race your playing?
A: At the moment, just what race you're playing. In the future, if someone comes up with some more ideas on how to integrate (no pun intended) them, I will also reference Integration events too.

Q: Will this project deny certain characters the chance to do certain quests, or add quests regarding them, or make the character do alternate things to complete the quests? I mean, will it be safe to approach kvatch while playing a Xiviali?
A: No, this project will NOT change the quests in ANY way, except how the characters present them. The ONLY thing that changes is what the characters say, not to what end they lead. All quests will still unfold in the same way as beth intended, all dailogues will still lead to the same end as they do normally. Its just what they say to lead you to that end that changes. Example: If you approach Salvian Matius as a Xivilai, he'll be hostile and suspicious to you, but he won't attack and he'll (grudgingly) let you help him.

Q: Knights of the Nine? Other DLCS?
A: no support for them. First off that would require way too many dependancies, and 2ndly I can't figure out how to save anything dependant on DLCs without having the CS crashing. And to be honest, the only one I'd really change anyway is KOTN to prevent daedric characters from starting that quest, which is better served by simply turning off that mod anyway.

Q: Will this require OBSE?
A: I can't see why it would. I do not intend to add any new scripts or nonesuch to it. Unless you mean to run Universal Silent Voice, which requires it. But other than that, no.

Sounds like an ambitious project. Certainly useful for people who play with non-standard races.

I have to admit that playing as a Xivilai is something I never understood. So you play as a horrible, supernatural breed of monster known for killing lots of innocent people? And your 10 feet tall super Daedra starts as a level 1 character who has trouble killing a rat? Of course the game is about having fun so if you want to be a Xivilai then play as a Xivilai. But a few altered dialogue topics won't make it more plausible imo.

For most of the other RBP races it makes sense though, so good luck with it.

Yeah, I was just trying to think of how the Sirens Deception quest would go with a Xivilai male... You'd think they'd be far too afraid to even put the image of having six with a Xivilai in the head let alone inviting one back to their farm and trying to rob him with just three ladies with daggers at their disposal.

For female Daedra it'd be pretty easy, just have them say something like "Fortunately we know some men who have just the right fetish for your kind." And they'd probably be extra excited to get a female Daedra Seducer to join them.

As for why a Xivilai would have trouble killing a rat... maybe you used to be a scamp who angered Dagon because you were a pacifist who fell in love with a little girl, and acted as her dog. So Dagon killed her, yourself, and brought you back as a giant lumbering Xivilai as punishment.

Oh dear you're making me think of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA :lmao:

Though for the moment I'd prefer to concentrate on the main quest, if you guys don't mind... :shrug: Not that I wish to discourage you all from giving ideas related to other things, but MQ stuff is what I'm really looking for ATM.


I'm thinking first I'll tackle the main quest dailog
Then concentrate on the guild quests,
Then on the Side/Unaffiliated quests.
Then on the misc/non-quest dialog (hellos and goodbyes and whatnot).


Here's what I have so far:


(CHARACTER GENERATION QUEST)
"Why am I in prison?" (To uriel)

Daedric: "Is it not obvious, Daedroth? Regardless of what you are and where you come from however, it does not matter. What matters is the part you will play in the coming days..."

Ohmes/Ohmes Raht: "Perhaps the gods have placed you here so that we may meet? Though I can only suspect the so called Suthay Decree had its part to play as well. However, it does not matter. Hopping the Borders is not what you will be remembered for..."


What will you do (to Baurus)
"I'll stay here to guard the Emperor's body, and make sure no one follows you. You'd better get moving. May Talos guide you."

Ohmes/Ohmes Raht:
"Oh and while your on your way to Jaufree, I will write up a little note to the courts giving you special permissions to be here in Cyrodill.
Normally this would raise quite a commotion in the imperial customs... but given the events that happened here, I doubt they'll us any trouble.
As of this moment your presence in Cyrodiil is a matter of Imperial Security. This should prevent any further arrests...
At least when it comes to the Suthay Decree. I cannot be responsible for any other crimes you commit here however, so... don't.
Stay out of trouble, head to Weynon Priory, and you'll be alright.
(Insert swords dialogue here if it applies)"

Daedric:
"Oh and by the way, I'll write up a little note to the courts telling them not to arrest you again or try to banish you for... well... being a daedra.
Still, I'd keep a low profile if I was you, just to be on the safe side. Oh and don't think this means you can do whatever you feel like either.
If you're going to stay here in Tamriel, you do things our way, or its back to the void for you. Do I make myself clear, Daedroth?"
-Loud and clear
"Perfect. Remember: the only reason you haven't been banished is because the Emperor trusted you. Do not betray that trust, or it'll be the end of you.
Now go. That Amulet isn't going to reach Weynon Priory by itself you know!"

(When brother Piner greets you @ Weynon Priory.)

Daedric: "You'd better have a very good reason for Defiling this place with your presence, Daedroth..."

(normal Choices)

- "My business is private."
Daedic (non DS): "A bit of advice: That attitude will get a daedra banished quite quickly around here....
I can only assume you're here to talk to Jaufree, Since you haven't started hacking or slashing anything yet..
He's upstairs, but I'm watching you."
Daedra seducer: "Yeah, I'll bet it is, succubus.
If your here for Jaufree, he's upstairs, but don't think for one moment I'm going to let my eye off you.
No funny business, or you'll answer to the full might of the blades you hear?"

- "I must speak with Jaufree"
Daedric: "He's upstairs. Go ahead, but i'm watching you."

I don't have anything else SPECIFIC but I had ideas on how they should go.

Jaufree: something along the lines of "You'd better have a VERY good reason for being here" then proceding as normal.

Savion Matius: If your a Xivilai or Daedra seducer, He'll at first think you're one of them. But seeing as you havent attacked him he'll hear you out, and grudingly let you help him. I have no idea how he should react if your a Mazken or Golden saint. (perhaps along the lines of "Oh great just what I need... (mazken or golden saint)" As if Dagon wasn't enough!. OR "oh boy, Sheogorath's minons vs Dagon's minons? this should be interesting!"

Martin: He'll comment if your a daedra. If your a xivilai, He might at first think your with dagon, but maybe he knows better? He'd comment that he's not very comfortable partnering up with a Xivali, but say that he's had/could be worse.
If your a mazken or aurueal, its the same, but he's not nearly as cold.
If your a Daedra seducer, he might go into a panic at first and you'd have to calm him down, making a few references to Integration's quest regarding him. Eventually he'd agree to let you take him to weynon priory, but give you a stern warning that if you as so much even touch him the wrong way even once, he'll banish you "just like the last time"

And that's all for now.

Wow good luck with this, it's a very ambitious project, but it would be great to see Integration become even more integrated into the game. :foodndrink:

Before I call it a night for today,

http://www.mediafire.com/file/32vijopv8crtgh9/bgIntegrationEV%20-%20Stock%20Dailog%2C%20Integrated%21.esp

So far I've done the Chargen quest, Deliver the Amulet quest, scratched the surface of the misc dialogues for the main quest, and got some placeholder lines and some actual lines for the Find the Heir/Breaking the Seige quests.

I'll check it out when I can get to my computer on Wednesday

Too bad new "scenes" can't be made. You'd think the Blades would be very reluctant to let a Daedra just walk in to Cloud Ruler Temple. Doesn't one of them have a line like: "No Daedra will be getting in here, because of our big walls and defenses." That's one line that could use some editting. Maybe just add an "...except you." at the end.

More later...

EDIT:

Scouts and Spies
People that don't give any hints(are there any?)
"Well I did see a Xivilai, but then it walked up to me and asked me if I've seen anything strange recently."

People That do give hints
Any Daedra
"You mean besides you, well let me think..."
(continues normally from there)

I think the topic is *new people in town*

Burd when the player comes to help close the gate
Xivilai or either seducers... hell maybe even Maormer. (assuming Burd is ill educated)
"Well would you looky here, it's our "expert!"... In more ways than one."
(ie: you closed a gate and he assumes you lived in Dagon's Deadlands... Seducers and Maormer are included because to him they all look the same and like they could be one of Dagon's minions)


Speaking of Maormer, the other races need some love too:

Savian or Burd when telling you to enter the gate
Maormer or Argonian
"You sure you want to go in there? It looks pretty hot, you wouldn't dry out and die right?"

Maybe a few situations where all races are recognized, like when you give the amulet to Jaufree he'll comment on the emporer having put his trust in yor race... like:

Breton: "Ahh, fellow Breton, our kind has long served the Septim bloodline and it pleases me to see that the youth still continue to do so today."( don't know if that's lore correct...)

Dunmer: (He questions the trust given what the imperial legion did a while back)

Khajiit: (Suspects that it might be some poltical ploy by the Mane)

Ohmes: "Odd that he'd put his faith in your kind after that one debacle... Rumor has it there's a giant tiger heir to the throne,but I assure you Martin is the better candidate." (Refering to Uriel's illegitimacy's and a easter egg type thing in the Disciples of the Moment

etc.

If I could get someone on AIM, MSN, or YIM that might help me out with this, I would be most appreciative.

Right now i'm working on adding placeholder lines for certain characters.

Placeholder lines are lines wrapped in brackets, Its used where I have a BASIC idea of what I want them to say, but not how to word it to fit the character or mood. Its also used so I don't forget I want to put something there. Also so i get the conditions for them down ahead of time.

I could use a bit of help turning these placeholder lines into real ones.


In particular i could use a bit of help on dialogues relating to martin. I have something down, but its... crap to say the least.

here's what I have so far.

(note: don't look at the spoilers unless your serious about helping)



Also some other dialogue for breaking the seige I could use an opinion on.

Edited three of the place holders... Couldn't think of anything for the one guy because I can't remember who that was.

The guy who you meet INSIDE the kvatch oblivion gate? the one you see fighting daedra almost immediately after going in.

Does anyone have a link to the dialogue in the Kvatch quest? I'd like to review what was said...

You could open it up in the Construction set yourself and see it.

Quests ms48 (breaking the seige) and MS49 (battle for kvatch).

This is basically what I was made for. I will absolutely help as much as I can, for one reason: I will definitely use this mod, and there is nothing I hate more than badly-written or misspelled dialogue.

In the morning, I will go to my computer, and TAKATAKTKATKAKTKATKAKKTKATKAKTKA out the dialogue replacements you have asked for.

Hey, I figured I'd give a bit of help here as well. I've given Savlian's greeting when the player is an Auriel or Mazken a shot. Let me know what you think.



By all means, feel free to edit this as you please

http://www.mediafire.com/file/32vijopv8crtgh9/bgIntegrationEV%20-%20Stock%20Dailog%2C%20Integrated%21.esp

New features:

- Martin dailogue added for find the heir.

- Some (kinda generic) banter from the sigil keeper in breaking the seige if your a daedric race.

- Martin and Salvian's placeholder lines now have real ones.

- Some misc main quest dialogue added (specifically: Dragonfires has a new dialogue where

Oh and it now requires Integration & lame proper. I had some ideas for Integration-dependant lines (IE being in the stranded light). Oh well, this was inevitable anyway.

I said I would not alter quests any, but I see I might need to when it comes to the Dagon Shrine quest... cause those would have to be some pretty stupid cultists to NOT identify the "daedric hero of kvatch" right away, same goes for the Maromer hero (and ohmes raht hero... but only if the suthay decree is still in effect). A mortal, cyrodill native race (that excludes Maromer and Ohmes/Ohmes raht during the suthay decree as I said) might be able to get away with it. but not a daedra or some other easily-identifiable race.
Instead I might have to make it so that when the gatekeeper greets you he right away raises the alarm if your a daedra, a fish, or a furry, and you're only left with the fight-your-way-through choice. Though I'm suspecting most people do this anyway.

Same goes with meeting the sponsor.

You think we should do that?

Editted Ilend Vonius' lines this time and editted his "Because I saved yor ass." reply.... the old one seemed a bit too much of a turn around, him turning suddenly calm. Despair seemed the more likely conclusion. (Shock/anger, then Fear/sadness, and finally despair/acceptance)

Yeah the instant identification might be a good idea, I mean... do they really expect a Xivilai to collect three books, set up a meeting, and then sit down and have a little chat in order to join the Mythic Dawn?

For like the Xivilai you could maybe pretend to be a generic Xivilai that Dagon sent to oversee Camaron's escape into paradise. Even funnier if you convince them that you were assigned to hide the book, so you take it and walk out calmly. No attacking, no items being taken, etc. Maybe... a tough skill check to convince them though, but I doubt you want to go that route.

EDIT: Back at home until next Monday so I should be able to help some more. One thing that's a little worrying is redundancy, and over use. I mean everyone you meet going "Die evil daedra!!!" would get old after a little while. I suppose you could say that after you become the hero of Kvatch word spreads that you're not a rampaging Daedra, but... most people don't do the main quest first so That wouldn't be too good of a solution for side quests, Guilds, and such... Maybe have multiple checks separating the "ZOMG it's teh evil Daedra!!1!1" lines from the "Oh hey it's that righteous Daedra I heard about." lines... Something like:
Hero of Kvatch
or
Conjurer rank in MG
or
Swordsman in FG
or
50 fame
...
Maybe some others.

That way people don't get tired of constantly having NPCs wet their pants in front of them, or threaten to kill them. Hmmm.... You ever play Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines? There are two Clans/"races" that have vastly unique dialogue with NPCs. One is really disgusting, and terrifying; the other is bat**** insane.... It might give you some ideas for Xivilai,and Golden Saint/ Dark Seducer dialogues.

Anyway, back on the topic at hand:

hmm... unfortunately while these are good ideas, as I said, I would prefer to edit the general flow of the quests as little as possible. Reasons for that is this:

This is not the first time I've edited stock quests. First time was way back when, I created an alternate Mages Guild quest for CDM Necromancy that involved you being an undercover necromancer, which of course, meant alternate events. While the idea was good and the dialogue moreso, the whole thing became a compatibility mess. So it along with CDM Necromancy in general was eventual scrapped.

So this time around I'm not going to make that mistake. I'm going to keep things as normal as possible. Otherwise, well, it becomes A. a compatibility nightmare, and B. a bigger headache than it really needs to be.

The Gatekeeper/Sponsor isn't that significant of a change, as first off Having them attack you is already happens in vanilla, no real harm in making them do it earlier. B. They wind up attacking you anyway (especially in the case of the sponsor) and C. Most players probably take the "hack and slash" route as is.

I will use Ilend's Dialogue though.

PS: I do use the rank thing already with Jaufree's dragonfire dialogue.

PPS: My idea is that everyone becomes a lot friendlier to you post-kvatch, and ESPECIALLY Post-endgame if your a Daedra.

PPPS: On the Shivering Isles btw my only idea for any real change was what sheo says when he meets you. Something like:

"What are you doing here, little (insert daedra type)? And why did you wreck my gatekeeper?! Those things aren't cheap, (Dae type)! And didn't I say I wanted a MORTAL champion? MORTAL! M-O-R-T-A-L!! As in, made of squishy stuff, not this hard (describe) that you (dae types) are made of! I'm so mad I'll (insert various gruesome things here). Wait! Scratch that! I have a better idea. I'll just PRETEND your a mortal, and you'll be my champion! he he!"

Because people over there aren't really scared of daedra, unlike in cyrodill. Whereas in people in say the imperial city would be like "OH EEEK A DAEDRIC SUCCUBUS WITH WINGS!" Sheogorathians would be like "Oh hey a daedra seducer. We don't get that here very often...." and they would care even less when it comes to mazken and aureal obviously.

UPDATE:
Here's my decision regarding the sponsor/gatekeeper (the MD one, not the SI one).

Sponsor: If the player chooses to meet the sponsor, Baurus will protest it based on your race (if you're a daedra) but otherwise it will go as normal. Baurus will comment though just how stupid they were to have fallen for that. (PS: a little easter egg here if you're a Daedra Seducer Female)

Gatekeeper: ... on the other hand, the gatekeeper won't be fooled, and if you're a daedra he'll raise the alarm after greeting you, especially since with Revan's death they're on the watch for you now. Also you won't be able to infiltrate them if you're a Maromer (too easy to spot), Ohmes Raht (only fails if you haven't taken care of the suthay decree yet), or if you're sheogorath (enemy god).

http://www.mediafire.com/?jj1bbuf60f1tbx8

too tired/lazy to remember what I changed... lol. All the placeholder dialogue is replaced, I know that. and MQ05 and MQ06 is done....

Phenoix, if you want to mess around with it while I go to sleep, feel free to. Just make sure you upload the new version somewhere and link me before you log off, that way we can kinda do a switch-off kinda thing.

Yeah don't mind me, I was just mentioning in another forum (about this) how I think way too much and can't really contain it all. It's like I recognize what is possible but can't stop dreaming about what is impossible. Just feel free to ignore the rambling parts of my posts. I actually wrote a little bit about my history with Integration in some "Which RPG shouldI get?" topic... kind of a silly philosophical piece: (probably my way of subconciously saying "I'm thankful for Integration." since it's thanksgiving.)




For SI you might have to do some stuff for GS/DS. Sheogorath would probably say something different if a Daedra race largely devoted to him answers the call.(Something like: "Welcome back traitor! So good to see you again my beloved child, come, give daddy a kiss.... The thought of swimming around in the void for centuries became too much to bear? " except with a little more insanity to it)
There's also need to be some explanation as to why A GS/DS can't visit its home base, or certain other areas.
I suppose you could say that Haskill or Sheogorath used the power of insanity to strip you of your visage and everyone in the Shivering Isles just sees you as a high elf or Dunmer. (that way you don't abuse the respect that DS/GS get in the Isles... also as punishment for being a "traitor.")

I really wish there was a script somewhere so I didn't have to open the CS to look at lines.... the Uesp is a little helpful though.

Right now I'm running on fumes, trying to think of some interesting situations that would require new lines but wouldn't come down to "Oh no it's the Daedra!!!" "I'ts koo I no attack you" "oh okay."... Hard to think of anything when the upcoming Main "quests" are the boring fetch crap. I suppose it could be fun writing cultural dialogue for the "allies for Bruma quest"... Showing how the cultures of each town respond to your race. Cheydinhal might be a more accepting because they have a dark elf count, and you aren't a useless wannabe knight like those Thorn guys...Bravil's guards might be a little more accepting because they're used to having to deal with "the scum of the earth". Leyawiin would mildly try to refuse your help thinking that they can handle it on their own and they don't need impure races helping them, etc. Though I think I'm remembering it wrong.... Bruma and Cheydinhal are the only times that guards actually go with you right? Well I guess you could still add some cultural dialogue to the Counts, and/or the guards if you wanted.

EDIT:
A new news post on http://www.moddb.com/mods/integration-the-stranded-light/news/several-new-things-and-an-update

Thanks for the news update!!

hmm I just realized the beta thing does pose a problem though: I tend to delete it and upload a new version when I get done with it for the day. that means the link gets broke just about every day.

So what I'm going to do is post this link to a FOLDER and keep uploading the new version in there.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7yto99j6ohk68

And for those of you who ask for it: There's also a text dump of all of oblivion's vanilla dialogue in there too. Its not much, and it's probably easier to just use the CS, but nevertheless I hope that helps.

PS: I know what you mean by the "eek a Deadra, no i'm cool, oh ok" thing. Thats why for the main quest anyway, I'm going it make it so its only like that up until kvatch. Then after that everyone's more like "Oh your that daedra that saved kvatch!" And everyone knows you are a friend (unless they're enemies... then they know otherwise)

Yesterday's Progress (If I remember, since I was too lazy to post it last time)

- Added Martin and Ilend dialogue.

- MQ05 (Path of Dawn): Added dialogue to baurus protesting daedric players who want to meet the sponsor themselves. Easter egg if you're a Daedra Seducer (F). Also added commentary by Baurus after the sponsor and his cronies are dead, should the player insist on meeting the sponsor him/herself.

- MQ06 (Dagon Shrine): Gatekeeper will automatically raise the alarm if the player is either A. A daedric race, B, A Maromer, C, An Ohmes Raht (only if the suthay decree is still in effect) or D. the Madgod.

- Dragonfires (Main Quest General Topic) Added special dialogue if you're daedric, and depending on what (if any) guild you belong to. First stranded Light reference.

Todays progress (I'll update this as I go along):

- MQ02 (Deliver the Amulet): Added choice to Jauffre concerning Tesseryial's warnings of an Oblivion Invasion. Will only work if you've either A. Talked to Tess twice, or B. Already used the backdoor to start oblivion's real estate.

- MS48 (Breaking the Seige): Tweaked Illend's Dialogue. He will be a very submissive and silent partner, up untill you "rescue" Menian, then he'll revert to his usual vanilla self.

- MS48 : Added dialogue for Hirtel (only works if your Xivilai or Daedra Seducer. He's too panicked to notice you if you're a Mazken or Aureal.).

- MQ03/02: Maborel/Piner are less open and more bitter about giving you stuff (but you'll still get free stuff). Ereanor will give you more if your a daedra.

Notes:

MQ02: I'll probably have to do some minor additions for Pheonix's other races ideas. Other than nothing much to be done here yet.

MQ04: (Weynon Priory) - Not sure if there's Anything at all that can be done for this.

MQ05: Other than the above note, again not really sure if there's much to be done here.

MQ06: Same

MQ07-16: haven't looked at it much....


Edit: New version up.

Lore wise do Daedra have birthsigns just like people? You'd think that Uriel's birthsign Dialogue might be a bit different. because he can't really ask "What sign were you born under?" I mean unless you get a new birthsign every time you return from the void.

Valen Dreth:

Ohmes-Raht: Ahh what's this a Khajiit mutt?! Just what did you think you were doing here Ohmes-Raht? Don't you know your kind isn't welcome here? *Something about how you'll never be able to again... I don't know their past times.* You're going to die in here! Oh, didn't you know what they do to border hoppers? They "deport" you....in a wooden box! MWAUHAHAHAHA!

Ohmes: .... (Can't really think of much. They look too normal besides the tattoos)

Maormer: Here fishy, fishy, fishy! Are you alive over there? Would you like a nice glass of water? You'll never have one ever again, the only refreshment here is the sludge seeping through the walls, you'll never see the Ocean again You're going to die in here! (continues normally from there)

Xivilai: Ummm, heeey buddy I'm Valen Dreth it's so nice to meet you... You look awfully strong, I'm sure you could break out if you wanted to. How about we both break out together? I could help you there in the outside world.. Lead people to their dooms with you're waiting to uhh *gulp* eat them up.Yeah.... I could be a great service to you so... let's hurry up and get out of here okay?
(Or I suppose he could taunt you like everyone else thinking that the cell will contain you.)

Aureal: (something about being shocked to see one of Sheogoraths Gaudy warrior Daedra trapped in a cell, maybe something about getting revenge for what Sheogorath did to Vivec... I'd probably be able to think up something if I had played Morrowind)

Mazken: ( Something pretty similar)

Daedra Seducer: (maybe fear that you're going to try and drive him mad with your seductive prowess in his fragile state(hasn't seen a female in 11 years... and if you're male he's even more terrified because he knows you'll find someway to 'seduce' him.), or maybe just the usual. "Got caught with noble's daughter/son? Oh they're going to have some fun with you harlet, they're going to make you pay for every pleasure you've ever svcked out of a mortal, and you're never going to feel that pleasure again until the day you die. (then goes on like normal)

Hidden Elves: How Ironic to see one of your kind here, Alyeid. And here I thought your vile kind were dead and gone. Let me guess you plan on starting an uprising against your slave holders hahaha! More likely they'll torture you into giving up the location of all your kind's hiding places, and before long your race will be extinct! As it should be.

Also maybe replace "kill" with "soul trapped" for Daedra, because death isn't very scary if they have a Daedra Prince or whatever ready to bring them back.

Also sorry, I'm fairly inconsistent, I'll try and look at that Misc dialogue quest later today before I have to leave again.

Yeah, Daedra wouldn't get birthsigns. For something to replace birthsigns, perhaps you could go with "With which Daedric Lord are you closest aligned?" And the player could choose one of the Daedra. And each of the Daedra would act pretty much like a birthsign, giving you certain powers and whatnot...

And, at least for the Xivilai, I think it would be most accurate for people to flee/attack you on sight. If the player doesn't draw a weapon and yields (think of the one Knights of the Nine quest with the bear) then they'll cease attacking and talk to you. It would be useful to acquire a symbol of the empire, or imperial papers, to show guards. Eventually, as your fame and personality increases, people stop attacking/fleeing you, then are more friendly, etc....

The other daedra could probably get away with simply disguising their identities (Mazken as Dunmer, Aureal as High Elf). The Daedric Seducers were originally shape-shifters in Daggerfall, so maybe you could do a play on everyone seeing you not as a Daedric Seducer but as a beautiful woman/handsome man.

Though since their race is not openly hostile atm, they possibly could get away with just being themselves (as long as they don't start breaking the law).

But those are both suggestions beyond the scope of this mod...

yeah... pretty much. :\

Valen Dreth wouldn't really work either without voices, since its a conversation and not a regular dialog, sadly. I think that's part of the reason bg2408 does that part the way he does.


We also seem to be kinda forgetting something: Not everyone has the ability to decern "hidden" races.

"Most people see what they want to see" etc.

Valen Dreth for sure doesn't have the ability to decern say a mazken from a high elf. Or even a Daedra Seducer from a redguard even.

One little issue I'm seeing is people overjudging the charcter's ability to decern non-vanilla races from what they're supposed to be posing as. My concern is that we're turning everyone (or more specifically, the wrong sort of people) into experts on identify daedra from mortals/decerning rare/foreign races from stock ones.

in order to determine how well a character can tell one race appart from another, we have to ask ourselves a few questions, namely...

1. What race are we talking about? Are we talking about a race that's relatively easy to identify (Xivilai, Maromer, Daedra Seducer, etc) or something that blends into other races quite well (IE Mazken, Aureal, Ohmes, etc).
Lets put them into two groups to make them easier: the obvious group, which are the group more (but still not ALL) people will easily Identify, and the "Concealed" group, the group not a whole lot of people would easily identify.

Obvious Races

• Daedra Seducer (posing as Redguards... though that's a REALLY far stretch.)
  
• Xivilai (posing as... really buff dark elves. quite a strech.)
  
• Ohmes Raht (posing as... um... uh... something? and even then they have to shave in order to pull it off. Other than the daedra seducer possibly the most obvious of the obvious races)
  
• Maromer (Posing as Argonians. By far this is the least obvious of the obvious races. But still not too hard to spot if your somewhat informed)

Keep in mind although these races are easier to identify, that doesn't mean everyone is that well informed that they can easily pick them out. Its just that these stand out a lot better than the other ones do. People like Valen Dreth or the Camerons wouldn't ( only because the camerons are f**ing retards. lol), people like Salvian Matius would.

My advice with this group: While keeping in mind most lower class citizens would identify them, beyond that go nuts with dialouges for these races.

And now the "Concealed" Races. Races that not a whole lot of people know about, and even less people can readily identify. Only people really into the arts mysticism (scrying) or people who are really well informed about these races can finger these. And in some cases they can't discern all of these races, just certain ones (IE said person might be able to identify a Mazken or Aureal, but not an Ayleid or an Ohmes.)

• Ohmes (appear as bosmer)
  
• Aylieds (again appear as bosmer)
  
• Mazken (appear as dark elves)
  
• Aureal (appear as high elves)

Be very careful who you have say anything specific about this group. MOST people wouldn't know squat about any of the races in these groups, let alone all of them. As I said, a person might be able to identify a Mazken or Aureal, but that same person might have some difficulty telling an Ohmes or Aylied from a bosmer simply because mortal races are not their area of experteise.

And that brings us to point number two:

2. WHO is talking about them?

The intelligence/abilities of the person in question greatly affects a person's ability to decern these races. Obviously some commoner who doesn't know a whole lot about anything isn't going to comment a hidden elf player on his Aylied heretige, or go "eek a mazken" or even "Eeek a Xivilai" because as many people in integration say, these sorts of people see what they want to see. They don't know a whole lot about anything that doesn't involve their daily chores, and don't really care a whole lot.

On the other hand, people involved in arcane studies (pretty much everyone in the Mages Guild, though the Chorrol wing in particular since conjurations are their area of expertese), would be able to decern daedra, mystics in particular (people in the Leyawinn guild hall or the arcane university) would be able to decern anything through scrying. The blades would know quite a bit about the daedric races, etc.

Some more personal examples.

Jauffre: Would be able to decern any of the races right away. He is the grandmaster of the blades, its (part of) his job to know these things.

Baurus: he's new, so he wouldn't. But then again, he is with Uriel, who blows your cover. At least if your a daedroth.

Uriel: It'd be just silly for an emperor to not know how to tell one subject apart from another wouldn't it? And plus his dreams/experiences during the Imperial Simulacrum would grant him quite a bit of insight into the daedric races, enough anyway to pick out a mazken or aureal from a croud of high/dark elves.

Salvian Matius: Before Kvatch, he probably wouldn't have been able to. But now that he's had past experience with daedra, he can pick out some of the more obvious ones, plus he's in a state of high alert so he'd pick out a mazken or aureal too. Though when it comes to Aylieds and Ohmes, he could do, or care, less.

Hertil: I don't know what his backstory is. But assuming he's just a random peasant before kvatch, I'd have to say... He could tell a xivilai or daedra seducer apart from a dark elf or redguard specifically, but only because he SEEN them attack his hometown. Unlike with salvian matius his panicked state would work in the opposite direction for the mazken/aureal, let alone the other races. Besides, Aureal/Mazken weren't attacking there anyway, so he wouldn't know what they look like.

Valen Dreth: No. Just... no. He's been in a cell for years on end. Even if he did have some past knowledge of what even the most obvious daedra looked like (which is doubtful), I doubt he'd be able to decern them.

Teekius: He'd be able to decern all the daedra. Since conjuration is his guildhall's specialty, even though hes never seen an Aureal up close. A ohmes/ayleid though? not really.

Agata: One word: Scrying. Enough said.

Raminus Polus: Comine Teekius's conjuration knowledge with Agata's Scrying. Yes, he could.

Traven: same thing.



Hope that helps a bit.

Yeah that's kind of why I couldn't think of anything for Ohmes, they look too normal. So do Alyeids, but I wrote something for them anyway because they've been getting kind of neglected. I figured he might recognize the GS/DS because he's from Morrowind and they're a bit more common there, but yeah.... it is pretty dark in there.

You know Tyrru acts annoyed when you first meet him, talking about how his tattoos are exclusive to his 'tribe' and you can't get them anywhere. Maybe have a few of the Imperial City quests have the occasional person comment on your "cool tattoos"(if you're hidden elf or Ohmes) to sort of back up why he's so irritated and why he thinks that's why you're approaching him.

Checking the MQ00: Hmm seems there's a Count/guard/male/female topic for each town when the Gates show up outside the city. Some(Anvil/Bravil) are generic copies of each other though....

The first Elder Council topic... Maybe add a "Be that as it may, you should still probably try to stay out of the limelight when Martin is being sworn in, there are still many who hold on to stereotypes about your kind and he does not need any additional controversy" at the end If you're a Daedra race.

Same topic: Ocato probably needs a different dialogue for talking to pre-endgame Daedra.... Doesn't seem right having the High Councilor reassure a Daedra that everything is going to be okay.

Same topic again: Palace guard, Daedra, or Alyeid: "...And they're permanently closed to your type" (Alyeid because Imagine palace guards as being like the Secret Service of Cyrodiil... Very likely they've be trained in identifying any and all threats.)

Greeting, Viera Lerus, Obvious Daedra race: " I look forward to fighting these Dae- uhh Dagonite's side by side with the Hero of Kvatch.

Her again: Hail enemy of Dagon! (Seems odd calling a daedra a daedra-slayer)

MQ13battle Allies: (Something besides "damned daedra"?

Baurus, second greeting topic: "...escaped prisoner... and a daedra no less..."

Four more from MQ13battle allies, three of them aren't quite as disrespectful.

Topic Bruma Allies, jauffre, first one: (Not sure it's worth changing but "Hordes of Oblivion" is pretty offensive, especially to a Aureal, Mazken, or Daedra Seducer. It's just Dagonnot all of Oblivion, but then... the whole game is kind of centered around this screw up.)

Topic: "It's too risky. I'll lead the battle".... ***I hate being forced into the role of "servant of the gods"... How about being able to answer his question depending on your race? (ie: Daedra racee= option 1: yes I did, option 2-##: No I did it for *any daedra prince except for Dagon*.... And of course normal races could say they did it for their home country, or race (like the Alyeids who have none))) Or you know just for fun say : "I did it for Teshekru"/ "I did it for Kara" :laugh:

Topic: "As you Command" .... Maybe add in a "especially since..." at the end, because it'd be pretty stupid for Martin to expect a Daedra to convince the Countess to let a great gate be opened.

"But the gates are sealed" .... Hmmm "Dagon and his ilk" sounds good, maybe that could replace some of the generic "Daedra!" insults.

Martin's "Daedra Magic" topic could probably use some additions, especially if you're a seducer.

Probably something with the "Assistance" lines... like how brother Piner is willing to help out a Daedra because Jauffre just told him they're going into danger lol . Something like " He ordered us to help you. Jauffre didn't tell us any more than that." Probably cut the line about prayers

Topic: Mythic Dawn, Tar Meena, Daedra race: Maybe add an "...Even you,my 'good' Daedra." just in case your character was thinking they'd be immune to the "cleansing"

And that'sabout all of what I saw in that "quest's" topics

I don't think one should worry too much about NPCs saying things that would offend a daedra. I'd only take this into account if:
1. The NPC is speaking directly to the player
2. The NPC actually knows the player well and is a 'friend' (Martin, Baurus, Jauffre, etc).

And even they should make a 'slip' every once in a while...followed by an apology.

What I mean to say is...you shouldn't have people censor themselves just because you're an 'exemption to the rule'. You're a daedra for pete's sake. bliviongate: