Intervention Spells : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:44 pm

I can think of a few reasons why it wasn't in the game:

1. The Ultimate Heist would have been pretty lame if you could just teleport out any time.
2. Caught in the Hunt would also have been pretty lame.
3. Since NPC's actually can now go from cell to cell on their own, there's no need for them to teleport away anymore.
4. Heck, exploring tombs and caves would be a lot less exciting if you can escape that easily.
5. We got fast travel.

» Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:29 am

I can think of a few reasons why it wasn't in the game:

1. The Ultimate Heist would have been pretty lame if you could just teleport out any time.
2. Caught in the Hunt would also have been pretty lame.
3. Since NPC's actually can now go from cell to cell on their own, there's no need for them to teleport away anymore.
4. Heck, exploring tombs and caves would be a lot less exciting if you can escape that easily.
5. We got fast travel.

None of those remove the logic behind having Intervention scrolls, the idea is to get you out of a tight spot and none of your reasons go against that. Besides, I still think they could have just made it where teleportation and levitation were illegal within a certain radius of the city and everything would have worked fine...

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:20 pm

None of those remove the logic behind having Intervention scrolls, the idea is to get you out of a tight spot and none of your reasons go against that. Besides, I still think they could have just made it where teleportation and levitation were illegal within a certain radius of the city and everything would have worked fine...

Exploring dungeons just isn't the same when you can teleport out any time you want. And it's not like there wasn't teleportation in Frostcrag Spire and the Arcane University.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:39 pm

Exploring dungeons just isn't the same when you can teleport out any time you want.

you're right, its better. what happened to strategy? what happened to class differences? mages should have the posibility of planing and excecuting an elaborate and involved dungeon run which involves something beyond "run in and shoot everything that moves with fireballs"

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:43 pm

Exploring dungeons just isn't the same when you can teleport out any time you want. And it's not like there wasn't teleportation in Frostcrag Spire and the Arcane University.

Interpretation of 'the same' is very subjective... and those teleportation platforms hardly count for anything, they're just doors that connect a long way off...

» Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:09 am

Interpretation of 'the same' is very subjective... and those teleportation platforms hardly count for anything, they're just doors that connect a long way off...

Okay, let me rephrase it. It is much more exciting when you're deep in a dungeon/cave/tomb/whatever and you cannot escape on a whim if you run into something. One of the rarely-mentioned improvements on Morrowind is that exploring dark places is quite scarier. Not to mention it makes thieving much more exciting as well. Then again, I'm a fan of the Thief series.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:39 pm

Okay, let me rephrase it. It is much more exciting when you're deep in a dungeon/cave/tomb/whatever and you cannot escape on a whim if you run into something. One of the rarely-mentioned improvements on Morrowind is that exploring dark places is quite scarier. Not to mention it makes thieving much more exciting as well. Then again, I'm a fan of the Thief series.

Yes, but no longer can I go through a stronghold, gather everything I want to take into one spot, pick it up way past my strength level and teleport it out...

Besides, its an aspect of roleplaying. Your character might not be the type to teleport out of harms ways, other people are, so to remove it only serves to cut short my roleplaying experience...

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:09 pm

Good point. The implication of Paladin's post? "Oblivion restricted your freedom so you could play the game the way the devs wanted you to play it."

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:39 pm

Okay, let me rephrase it. It is much more exciting when you're deep in a dungeon/cave/tomb/whatever and you cannot escape on a whim if you run into something.

Hey, if I want to be a coward, I'll be a coward. And there's nothing you or that damn turtle can do about it...

:turtle:

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:08 pm

Yes, but no longer can I go through a stronghold, gather everything I want to take into one spot, pick it up way past my strength level and teleport it out...

Besides, its an aspect of roleplaying. Your character might not be the type to teleport out of harms ways, other people are, so to remove it only serves to cut short my roleplaying experience...

It's called feather or Fortify Strength. Aside from that, ambient atmosphere of a place is enhanced when you cannot teleport out of harm's way. If you want to escape, nothing is preventing you from turning around and running away. Besides, it's good for your Athletics skill. And there's always Detect Life, if you don't want to get surprised.

Good point. The implication of Paladin's post? "Oblivion restricted your freedom so you could play the game the way the devs wanted you to play it."

When an escape is that easy, it makes things boring. After all, it's much more exciting when you have to escape the more traditional way.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:35 pm

It's called feather or Fortify Strength.

Neither of those let you carry an absurd amount of items to a store instantaneously...

Aside from that, ambient atmosphere of a place is enhanced when you cannot teleport out of harm's way. If you want to escape, nothing is preventing you from turning around and running away.

Apart from getting shot in the back with and arrow or fireball while doing so...

Besides, it's good for your Athletics skill.

Yes, but its not good for my Mysticism skill, and I usually play more of a mage - which means you cut short my roleplaying...

When an escape is that easy, it makes things boring. After all, it's much more exciting when you have to escape the more traditional way.

Says you, I find it just as exiting without having to cut short my roleplay value...

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:57 pm

Neither of those let you carry an absurd amount of items to a store instantaneously...

No, but CE enchantments do (and are much easier to get in TES IV), and don't forget that Ebony and Daedric equipment is much lighter now.

Apart from getting shot in the back with and arrow or fireball while doing so...

You can still dodge. And you chose to get into the situation.

Yes, but its not good for my Mysticism skill, and I usually play more of a mage - which means you cut short my roleplaying...

So simply cast Detect Life, so you can plan ahead and anticipate your fights. That seems more mage-like of an action than getting in over your head and having to bail.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:14 am

I actually find it more exciting trying to frantically re-cast a recall spell after it's failed once or twice while fighting off an enemy, instead of just turning tail and running.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:26 pm

I actually find it more exciting trying to frantically re-cast a recall spell after it's failed once or twice while fighting off an enemy, instead of just turning tail and running.

But the spell system wasn't like that in Oblivion anyway. And in Morrowind, Edwinna Elbert gives you both Intervention Amulets after several very easy quests.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:10 pm

Well, the intervention spells weren't in Oblivion either, so I guess talking about the two together is rather pointless. Secondly, part of what has been mentioned is roleplaying, those N'wah in the Guild of Mages might not even come into play at all.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:04 pm

No, but CE enchantments do (and are much easier to get in TES IV), and don't forget that Ebony and Daedric equipment is much lighter now.

No amount of enchantments can make up for the sheer volume that can be transported via teleportation since there is literally no limit upon it...

You can still dodge. And you chose to get into the situation.

And I'd like to chose how to get myself out of it.

So simply cast Detect Life, so you can plan ahead and anticipate your fights. That seems more mage-like of an action than getting in over your head and having to bail.

What is more mage-like for me is up to me, not you or the devs; its cutting short the roleplay value of any that would like to use the spell...

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:29 am

When an escape is that easy, it makes things boring. After all, it's much more exciting when you have to escape the more traditional way.

Um... escape? You either walk backwards over the corpses of tailored-to-your-level corpses or the circular dungeon (most of them) just dumpes you near the exit. Whup dee doo. If you want exciting escape, the wilderness trek to town is less predictable, especially with your degraded equipment. But that would be boring, hence the fast travel, and travel spells.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:42 pm

Um... escape? You either walk backwards over the corpses of tailored-to-your-level corpses or the circular dungeon (most of them) just dumpes you near the exit. Whup dee doo. If you want exciting escape, the wilderness trek to town is less predictable, especially with your degraded equipment. But that would be boring, hence the fast travel, and travel spells.

The Ultimate Heist and Miscarcand would both be much more boring if you could teleport out. And trekking through the wilderness isn't that dangerous, as you can simply just run until you get to town.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:22 pm

Then they would invent excuses, like how the Heart Chamber restricts teleportation and the Clockwork City puzzles preclude levitation. I could think of some real good ones, what with running around under a spike of matter-leeching megafetish or carting a Great Welkynd stone. You are making lame excuses for lamer decisions, and we all know it.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:09 pm

Walter:

Then they would invent excuses, like how the Heart Chamber restricts teleportation and the Clockwork City puzzles preclude levitation. I could think of some real good ones, what with running around under a spike of matter-leeching megafetish or carting a Great Welkynd stone. You are making lame excuses for lamer decisions, and we all know it.

But that would be far, far, far too easy, and make so much sense.

Since when did people do what makes sense?

I'm not going to defend the explanations or the reasons behind it. However I happen to say I never noticed Clockwork City puzzles excluded levitation.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:22 pm

Yeah, they made you jack fabricant parts to turn heavy cranks or outrun spinning blades- all solved easily by levitation. I said 'screw this' and used Icarian Scrolls.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:17 pm

Walter:

Yeah, they made you jack fabricant parts to turn heavy cranks or outrun spinning blades- all solved easily by levitation. I said 'screw this' and used Icarian Scrolls.

Huh. I easily got past them. :shrug:

I do agree there should be absolutely no reason why you can't solve a puzzle the "cheap, easy way." It's still solving it. It shouldn't matter how it's done. It just gets so damn annoying when you're told no and aren't given a reason.

I love daddy logic.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:36 pm

Walter:Huh. I easily got past them. :shrug:

I do agree there should be absolutely no reason why you can't solve a puzzle the "cheap, easy way." It's still solving it. It shouldn't matter how it's done. It just gets so damn annoying when you're told no and aren't given a reason.

I love daddy logic.

If you want cheap and easy, use the console. Or get the PC version, then use the console.

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:36 pm

If you want cheap and easy, use the console. Or get the PC version, then use the console.

No, you see that's just cheating...

» Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:54 pm

Unless this discussion can be redirected into relating the presence or absence of intervention spells to points of lore, rather than gameplay and personal preference, it will have to be moved to OB General or locked.