An interview with Brumbek and the owner of Nexus!

Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:31 pm

Well no mod authors aren't the only ones with opinions. Being divisive is not a good thing. Who has a right to an opinion? Popular mod makers only? Anyone has the potential to be a modder so why should they be denied a voice.

I'm glad it got shut down. It was in a disgraceful state. Even worse than horse armour dlc. 50p for a single sword. Wet and cold for £4.99. It was ripping off people who don't know any better. Not to mention pre requisite mods that people only get because they have to. Also there is the issue of Bethesda taking advantage. Why patch the game for free when you can charge for an unofficial patch. Or them getting money of a UI system that they should have fixed in the first place. Not that I mind anyway as I use a controller. People saw the way dlc went and they know mods would have gone the same way. Dlc is great they said. You'll only pay for big expansions they said. brb cosmetic changes £2. Season pass with 10 poverty maps £40. It was largely a pricing issue. I wouldn't even pay 1p for a sword mod. It simply is not worth the cost for an inferior product. If there was involvement from Bethesda and they made sure mods were up to standard and priced fairly then maybe it would have worked.

Having a capitalist economy only drives quality up fleetingly. It becomes about how much money can be saved by making an inferior product for the same price.

It also sets a dangerous precedent for paid mods in other games. I don't want Total War modding community ruined by steam. Once the corporates are involved we'll never see a third age total war again. WB shut down MERP and that was non profit.

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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:08 pm

WB shut down MERP becuase THEY DIDN'T OWN THE RIGHTS.

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Cameron Wood
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:58 pm

http://skydevgru.tumblr.com/post/117508125033/final-word-paying-for-mods

Spoiler
http://skydevgru.tumblr.com/post/117508125033/final-word-paying-for-modshttp://skydevgru.tumblr.com

http://skydevgru.tumblr.com/post/117508125033/final-word-paying-for-mods

I decided I had one final thing to say about paying for mods because some of the rhetoric and arguments going around annoy me. This is long and summative and sort of hostile.

I’m going to break this up by addressing the four major actors involved in this relationship: Bethesda (Developer/Publisher), Valve (Distributor), Modders (Added Value Content Producer), and Consumers (You, probably).

Bethesda

Some people have argued that there’s nothing wrong with Bethesda getting a share of profits from mods made using their assets. I’m here to tell you that’s [censored]. They already got their share. They got their share from the person who paid for their game and DLC to make the mods, and they got their share from the person who paid for their game and DLC to play with the mods. Bethesda, at the very least, has moved at a minimum two copies of the game for any publicly released mod that anyone beyond its creator uses. Furthermore, given that “highly moddable,” is a major selling point of their titles, it can be surmised that a not-insignificant fraction of their sales long after the launch release stem directly from the game being moddable. People continue buying their games in large part because they know they can customize them. This is without getting into things like customers who bought the game once for consoles and then again for PC to be able to use mods as they got more powerful computers or other similar circumstances.

Bethesda made the game, and they made and released the Creation Kit, yes. But they haven’t lifted a single finger to assist in making tools like NIF importers/exporters for Blender or 3ds Max, or Mod Organizer, or Wyre Bash, or TES5Edit, or NifSkope, or any of the other utilities people routinely use to make mods of various kinds. The sum total of their involvement beyond releasing the CK was to set up a wiki for it. Big deal. I’ll also note they were perfectly fine with releasing patches that broke certain functionalities (1.9 broke blinking and lip-syncing) and were fine with taunting users with content like what they came up with for http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115750-Bethesda-Shows-Off-Skyrim-Game-Jam-Mods that were then never released even as modder resources.

In other words, Bethesda doesn’t deserve a damn thing for modding because they have already more-than earned their share and their support for it is non-existent. What they’re engaged in is the literal definition of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking, “expending resources on political activity to increase one’s share of existing wealth without creating wealth.” It sounds ridiculous and Orwellian, but it legitimately is a way for them to profit off breaking their own games and/or not including content in the hopes that they save on the production costs of doing it themselves and profit off someone else’s labor in fixing it. SkyUI is the greatest example of this presently: Bethesda profits off someone else fixing the janky UI they themselves built. There’s no justice or fairness in that.

Valve

Steam is ultimately a content delivery and DRM platform with some social functions, nothing more, nothing less. Valve as a company is still technically a game developer but it’s clear maintaining Steam is their primary source of revenue and chief business concern. By serving as a distributor via Steam, Valve also gets a cut from sales; whatever boosts sales benefits Valve. As we’ve determined, being moddable boosts Bethesda’s game sales, and so Valve assisting in making mods visible also boosts Bethesda’s game sales, and both these things benefit Valve. Valve and Bethesda have a symbiotic relationship. Given both are for-profit companies, the entire reason the Steam Workshop exists is because it offsets the cost of running itself (i.e., bandwidth, storage, employee time, etc.) by helping move games and other content. (This all applies to Valve and other developers and publishers as well.)

In this regard, Valve, unlike Bethesda at this stage (which is no longer developing Skyrim nor has been in any capacity since the last patch was released) continues to have ongoing costs associated with the above. Do those costs matter? Hardly at all. If hosting files on the Workshop for free were a significant drain on Valve due to bandwidth or storage costs, they wouldn’t have done it to begin with let alone maintained it for several years. It benefits them already. The mods on offer don’t need to be bought because they’re not the product. As the saying goes: you are the product. Your attention and desire to buy the game drives the revenue. The mods are a bullet point to entice you into a purchase.

Admittedly, Steam Workshop does afford these mods some premium visibility. Surely there’s a profit angle to be had there? Sure. In the same way as Valve takes a (fractional) cut off of transactions on the Steam Marketplace, you could also imagine Valve taking a (fractional) cut off of any transactions on the Steam Workshop, on the order of 10-20%. You can imagine this being split with the publisher (i.e., Bethesda) in some fashion for legal purposes. In other words, at least 80% of the revenue off any transactions in the Steam Workshop should go to the person who posted the work.

There is also the question of what form revenue should take, if indeed any at all. I would argue that if they had simply added a donation button to mod pages where people could specify any amount they desired with the knowledge that some fraction of it would go to Valve and Bethesda themselves for being in the loop, nobody would’ve batted an eye at such a development and indeed the whole thing would’ve been perceived in a largely positive light. It would’ve likely been a trickle of money but it could’ve been potentially built up through support and advertisemant, which would’ve established a new symbiotic relationship between these corporate entities and modders. But that’s not what they did. They got greedy and wanted a continuous, never-ending stream of profit through micro-transactions in which they got the lion’s share of the profits despite having done none of the work. It’s a business model that works but that most people don’t want, especially inside an already mature game like Skyrim, and it’s exploitative. But it wouldn’t have worked if it’d been imposed unilaterally. Someone had to choose to collaborate.

Modders

Gabe Newell’s “Actually money is how the community steers work,” remark is pretty well known and derided by now, but it’s quite revealing. Gabe Newell worked for 13 years at Microsoft on Windows, made a small fortune, left, founded Valve, made Half-Life, then Half-Life 2, and then Steam. He’s a businessman. He knows business. One can see that he’s rather good at it given he’s positioned himself into being a billionaire by distributing content. There’s nothing new in this, and the story of say, Google, is remarkably similar. Like Google, Valve put forward an image of being a “good” company. But companies are companies: they exist to make money. And Gabe Newell, as the head of a company, sees things in profit-motivations. He thinks that people do things to make profit now (e.g., content creation) or to make profit in the future (e.g., acquiring marketable skills, networking).

Okay, so what? So this: he thinks that you think like he does. He thinks people make mods because they eventually want to make money off of it somehow. That is legitimately what he thinks.

And in some ways he’s right. Lots of people are or want to be related to game development or commercial art in some way or another. Alexander Velicky making Falskarr to try and get a job is probably the most stand-out example. But even these people who are doing it to try and get into the industry so they can make money off their skills or who are doing it to keep their industry skills sharp aren’t doing it to make money off their work, they’re doing it to build a resume at most, just like Alexander Velicky. Nobody gets into modding to get paid, and if you do, you’re doing it wrong, simply because there are much, much better ways to make money off your skills.

My academic background is in writing. Believe me, I understand that society does not highly value artistic work. I understood that fully when I learned that the average professional pay for a short-story you might spend hundreds of hours on was around $0.06 per word (or about $200-$500 for the average short-story). I understood it when I learned you could expect a $10,000 or so advance for a novel you might’ve spent thousands of hours on. I’ve seen artists have commission sales of beautiful work for $100 or less. I understand art is undervalued. I understand you can sink tens, hundreds, thousands of hours into something and you think there should be some payoff. But I understand something else: there’s a difference between a job and a hobby. Modding is a hobby.

If you were expecting to get paid regularly for your hobby, I have news for you: tough [censored]. We live in the Age of Patreon and Kickstarter and GoFundMe and so on that blur the lines between these two categories, but if you got into this activity with the explicit purpose of making money, you’re delusional. And if, when presented with a completely exploitative method of achieving it, you jumped on it, you’re a fool. Nobody owes you anything for time you yourself chose to expend.

Consumers

So what can be done about all this? It’s simple: do what you’re doing. Raise hell. Sign petitions, down-vote the game, raise awareness of the issue. Corporations respond to significantly widespread and loud complaints, whether they be oil companies or radio stations, because they don’t want to lose profits as a result of public perception. Apparently Valve has lost millions of dollars due to e-mail volume resulting from this debacle, so continue to drive home the point that this is not a profitable way for them to go. If you don’t like it, don’t acquiesce, don’t calm down, and don’t accept it. Raise hell.

Indeed. There are still people to this day only just finding out about it, of which are disappointed that they missed out on the chance to sign against it.

Yuuuup, cannot emphasize this enough.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4605047/garrus-is-damn-right-o.gif.

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Britney Lopez
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:02 pm

With GOG Galaxy the hedgemony of Steam may finally becoming to an end. Its coming at the perfect time for this in the wake of such large controversy. Now only need to support GOG. Maybe someday Valve will get its act back togeather. Maybe I'll come back, or maybe I'll have forgotten about them. Despite all the games invested on it sometimes a clean slate is just what a person needs. How cleaner can I get than the vast majority of my Steam games being left behind?

If they try this with Fallout 4 or whatever game they make next I won't buy it. I'll go to the furthest reaches of the internet to spread the word about their [censored]. Then raise as much hell as possible. They won't succeed in their plan to get a grip on this.

If Steam keeps it up I'll have to go from away with steam to down with steam. Let's hope they don't escalate things, but I suspect they will. As for Bethesda. I'm keeping an eye on them now too. I've lost faith in them for some time now. I knew this [censored] was going to happen. I could tell with the oppressive feelings on the forum. I've seen this situation all too many times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUGt-QkL1jQ

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BRIANNA
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:55 am


Like the vast majority of the arguments against paid mods, the thesis is undermined by an apparent gap in knowledge of economics, intellectual property, and licensing.

Skyrim is ZeniMax's intellectual property. No part of ZeniMax has to do anything to "deserve" a share of any revenue from paid mods, and whether ZeniMax already made back their investment in Skyrim doesn't matter at all.

The author calls revenue sharing "rent-seeking," but, in fact, ZeniMax was engaging in licensing: exchanging the right to commercially exploit their intellectual property with a third party so that all parties involved can make money.

Now that Valve extricated paid mods from the Skyrim workshop, we no longer have that right—once again.

And we're worse off than we were before because any request for a grant of that right, such as for Patreon or implementing a pay-what-you-want model at the Nexus, can now be more readily refused.

"No, there might be blowback" has become much easier to say than "sure, let's try it and see what happens."

In the spirit of sharing blog responses, here's what I wrote:

  • http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/articles/50159/
  • http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/articles/50180/
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stacy hamilton
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:53 pm

Just wow, hate to say it but holy [censored], that entitlement. I mean, I thought the percentages were bad, but that guy is just nuts, Beth owns their IP, Valve created steam, the opportunity for paid mods doesn't exist without them, they deserve a cut.

His argument also includes a bit whining about "society does not highly value artistic work" and if you wan't to get "paid for your hobby", "tough [censored]". What a monumental bellend. So because writers get a bad deal because there are no good systems in place that have a workable way in which an individual creating content can easily directly access their customers, he wants to assist in ensuring 3d artists and animators etc also have limited options in selling their work.

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Romy Welsch
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:56 pm

Here's more of his http://skydevgru.tumblr.com/post/117190313163/lets-count-the-ways-paid-mods-are-dumb. I'm collecting all of the worst arguments against paid mods, so I'm thankful he posted that list.

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Cagla Cali
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:14 pm

Hmm, there was one thing that Kris brought up over on the 3DNPC forums regarding content/idea theft. I'd like to see other peoples thoughts on this/what can be done... if anything. Here’s our convo:

To which I replied:

------------------------------------

Agreed about the rent-seeking/licensing part.

They tried it, and this is what happened... (shrugs)

One word to counter that should paid-for mods return to Steam: Greenlight. S'all that needs to be said right there regarding the bolded part. (shudders) Not to mention the blatant censorship and ban sprees that some authors abuse in order to paint their 'quality product' with a good, yet blatantly false positive rating. And then there's the authors who give out free game keys and other things as a means to boost their crappy titles rating so that it reaches front page etc... the list, of course, continues.

Yeah... mmm, dat bright future... /sarcasm

Because 25% (and only if you made, what was it, $100-$300 or something first before you actually got that 25%) was a good deal...

I like how little to no one from the 'for paid mods' side wants to collect 'the best arguments' against paid mods~ :whistling:

P.S: I don't see how it's 'the worst' when he brings up some pretty legit points. Asides from that, thanks for the link! :)

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Rex Help
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:18 am


Nah, while I love GoG and all but Valve is still a good company. They tried something based off of past experience with the DOTA 2 and TF2 communities but they didn't bother to ask anyone but a handful of modders how they felt about this system, that was the major problem. Bethesda and Valve are still good companies they just made one screw up, no reason to try and take them down because of it.

I'll probably use GoG galaxy but I'm sure as hell not leaving my steam account behind because of a mistake. Posts like this is just people going way to far into the drama. Also I doubt GoG Galaxy will kill Steam, that's what some people said about Desura and Origin and steam is beating those two by far.
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NO suckers In Here
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:11 pm

by legit you mean legitimately terrible? :tongue: I mean point one is so hilariously ridiculous I wondered if I was being trolled. Prices rising on a competitive marketplace where you are competing with free mods, just lol, the opposite would be far more of a worry, prices driven so low that quality artists weren't interested and with no curation you end up with an unused paid mod section full of 1 cent junk,

Awful argument. Here is the "entitlement" again, you aren't entitled to someone's work if they wish to charge for it, if there are a thousand paid mods buy the ones you want, or none at all. A lot of those paid mods will end up being made by people who wouldn't have bothered making them had money not been involved. So you now have the "option" to buy content that likely wouldn't have existed before.

Sigh really, check with the owner of the content like you should do already, or just don't use it, not hard. Or is this another thinly masked point saying that he wants to be entitled to use other people's content willy nilly...?

This could be annoying, but really how often is this going to happen? Almost never? Even if it was free previously, the owner of the content should be asked and will probably be fine with old versions remaining free and if they aren't how is it different than them providing a free mod. They should have every right to ask you to take their stuff out of your mod if they so wish even without money involved.

Let steam sort it out, they will, they are taking a cut and providing a service after all. They should implement some systems to make their lives easier, but that has been discussed in another thread.


Unlikely, but a possibility. Hilarious titling it a "chilling effect", that maybe some people might be more careful about where their content gets used though.

Is this even an argument against paid mods? If it is I can't see it, yes steam is tailored to a different crowd than the nexus, but uh where is the argument in this?

This is up to the modders to deal with, if you put work on the internet expect that some people will steal it. Don't like it? don't sell it or don't make it. It's a non argument.


...How about I change that to, "suddenly making a very small selection of content some of which never would have existed anyway paid might have an unknown effect on the community. Haha "deliberately shred", "hollowing", this is the sort of ridiculous over the top writing that riled up people into making this fuss.

So there are a grand total of maybe 2 points that have any validity, the rest is hysterical rambling. I don't even know why I bothered to write that, most of it wasn't even worth responding to.

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Kat Stewart
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:43 pm


Unlike the people who decry the 25% share, I'm taxed on actual royalty income. 25% is amazing.


I've yet to read any best arguments; and good arguments, grounded in reality, are hard to come by. The arguments against paid mods are mostly devoid of reason, logic, and/or a general understanding of how the real world works, whether due to a lack of experience or education or both. The criticism of Valve's implementation has been pretty good though. In particular, the lack of curation, the lack of a certification process, and the lack of a reviews system were realistic concerns, but rejecting paid mods outright because of the shortcomings inherent to a first iteration was an overreaction. Valve employs an iterative development process. That means feature sets evolve over time; a few days was hardly enough time.

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Abi Emily
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:57 pm

Why does anyone say Steam is a good company. Their customer service, well I can't say their customer service is bad because they don't HAVE any customer service. Exactly what does Steam offer you that you find valuable? I sure can't think of anything.

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Lizs
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:25 am

I was going to respond. But............ Obviously, anyone who is against paid mods has no idea what they are talking about. Right? They are just spoiled, entitled, ignorant, disgusting, fear mongers (did I miss any?)

No one is listening to each other. So , why bother?

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Dorian Cozens
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:42 pm

I have not purchased/played an EA Game since encountering ads for a DLC placed by a Game Update in DAO.

I do not like how Steam has dealt with policing the Steam Workshop, before the Paid Mods.

I am afraid of what may happen with the next Bethesda Sandbox, but I will likely still purchase the Game.

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sharon
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:13 pm

When half the arguments I keep seeing literally boil down to "I want your hard work and content for free, and I want to make sure the choice for you to charge doesn't exist so I get what I want", it's really hard not to actually call people out on it and use terms like entitled. I don't believe "disgusting" was ever used to describe anyone, just the behaviour of some of you, attacking mod creators that dared to ask a little money for their work or even just came out in support etc. It's not even arguable that blog posts like the one just mentioned are using over the top evocative language in attempt to make the content sound more valid when it's really not. Even if you don't see that, then you must surely see that people posting things like "all mods will become paid" is obvious fear mongering.

And no, me and other's have been posting pretty well reasoned rebuttals to a lot of the points "against" paid mods and I rarely get decent responses. I will also easily admit that some of you have a few valid points, the cons definitely do not outweigh the pros though in my opinion.

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His Bella
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:41 am

Indeed. I've given both sides their chance, but there are those on either side that can be quite toxic, as well as blind to the bigger picture. This affects more than Skyrim, this change affects the future of gaming, and it's a dark future that I do not want to be a part of.

They will call it fear mongering, but come the feck onnnnn, look at the path that videogames have gone down. It's not a good one, and it sure as hell isn't getting any better. I - as well as others who think the same as I do - would love to be proven wrong about this... but we will not get our bloody hopes up, and sure as hell won't put our trust in those who only see dollar signs.

Entitled

To furnish with a right or claim to something

Paid-for mod supporters throwing the word 'entitled' at those who wish to keep mods free, despite those people being both mod users AND mod makers.

Who is really acting entitled here?...

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Jason King
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:46 am

The people who don't want to pay for it, and the people who presume to dictate what others can do. :< Honestly, neither side is really good around that word, but it really should be up to the modder.

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^_^
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:21 pm

So much this. While I am all in favor of paid mods, and don't have any particular issue with the Workshop part of things, I very much despise the DRM side of Steam and have begun buying new stuff on GoG.com precisely because it has no DRM.

This seems like a perfect win-win for Bethesda too since they say they're anti-DRM. What better way to prove it to the fans than to put their games up on GoG. Existing and future titles.

If any company has a shot at breaking up the hegemony, it's GoG.

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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:18 pm

1) How is it ridiculous when such a thing actually occurred?... Not only that, but what's the point of producing a 'quality mod' if you get such a small amount of the cut? It incentivizes people to make and publish rushed mods, of which are overpriced for what they do... which happened btw.

In order for a mod to make a reasonable amount, especially one in which you poured thousands of hours into, would require you to up the price. Then, unless you worked alone, made all your assets alone, scripted alone, basically did everything alone, you would have to split that 25% between your team, your voice actors, your musicians, your modelers, and so on. That 25% ain't looking so pretty now~

2) Most of that content being what I stated above (aka, mostly rushed mods). As for the content that is worth a cent, it will - as we saw - end up being pirated (even the rushed ones). You only need to take a quick look at The Sims 2/3 community to see that. In the end, the paid for system ended up a joke due to it :smile:

3) I think what the poster was mostly getting at was how there was little to no policing.

And ofc, it was user policed, as has always been on Steam.

4) Which drives on the point about modders resources, of which will dwindle; or at least the quality ones will. People will feel less inclined to share their resources, knowledge, ideas, and so on, because [censored] y'all dis my idea dis my moneh. Aaaand then mod quality drops because of it, because not every modder has the time to learn everything and create everything for their mod.

Asides from that, it could be a rare occurrence, or perhaps it could be quite a common one. Needless to say, it's speculation... that, and it could also be used as a dirty tactic.

5) Couldn't help but laugh at the 'providing a service' part. Sure buddy, amazing service they have. There's no way that'll change, because that would cut into their profits :'(

6) People already do this with free mods, hence what I posted previously. What will be done for mod authors if someone steals their content, their ideas, their writing etc, but the thief gives it a different coat of paint. What will be done for the mod author who poured hundreds, if not thousands of hours into their mod, then some dikeweed comes along, changes a few locations/lines of code/names yaddayaddayadda, then has the nerve to sell it?

7) We saw it happen. Modders hid their files or outright removed them for fears of their resources being stolen and used in paid-for mods... which also happened. How can a mod author 'be careful' when they have no way of preventing theft, other than to never publish their creation in the first place?

8) Look outside the box. Granted, the poster wasn't crystal clear, but it's obvious what they are talking about. Steam auto-updates your mods. This has led to broken games. Not only that, but Steam has zero mod management, hence the influx of new mod users whining about how their game fails to work because they don't have a clue of wth a load order is. Should Steam bring back paid-for modding, it seriously needs to step up its game... but to do so would mean Steam creating it's own mod manager of sorts... and you know what that means~ (coughmoddrmcough)

9) Once again, you’re not looking at the bigger picture. Piracy has always been something that the entertainment industry rages about (despite most companies employing crappy practices which only force people to pirate... like this fiasco for example). Mod authors who submit their content to be sold do so by giving up their mod to Beth/Valve. It's no longer yours. You just make money from it. You wanna pull your mod? Tough [censored]. Oh, but don't expect them to give a damn when people pirate your mod, thus making you lose out on money... the sole reason you uploaded it to said workshop to begin with. Don't worry though, should you get your mod removed/hidden, Bethesda/Valve will still get to keep their lions share... lmao! Aah, Steam wallet refunds~

It shouldn't be up to the modders to 'deal with'. But if that's the case (which of course, it will be, because Valve does not seem to understand what quality control and policing is), then what's the point of the system at all?

10) The poster should change that 3.6 years into 13 years, since free modding for TES has been going since Morrowind. Yeah, 13 years, of free mods, of building a community, of sharing resources, tutorials, knowledge, and so on.

By the way, there were no posts/threads/blogs like this. The bomb was dropped without warning on us, so what was there to 'rile us up'? :3 As I've said, this affects more than just Skyrim. Think outside the box and see the bigger picture for once~

And I felt the same about reading your responses. Clearly you do not wish to acknowledge points and facts on the free-for side. That, and you don't seem to realize the multitude of issues and problems that such a system brings, to both this series and all new titles to come.

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Pat RiMsey
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:36 am


At least my objection has only been based on the attempt being a poorly though out money grab by two large corporations trying to find new ways to make money out of nothing (Edit: as in them doing nothing, as clarification to avoid misunderstandings).

And my knees are going bad, i can't just bend over and take it like i used to. And why should i pay for the lube with my own money when they are making the millions? :stare:

I'm not against modders trying to make a profit with their mods, but you should know a price tag rises my quality and quantity expectations considerably. Out of the probably thousands of mods i've used since Oblivion (well, technically i started with Fallout 3, then went back to Oblivion :hehe:) i could count the mods i might have paid for with fingers of one hand :wink:
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Philip Rua
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:33 pm

Amazing if you're working solo, but in the end disincentivizes big projects. That 25% isn't much once you split it between all the voice actors, musicians, scripters, moddelers, and so on. And if not, this means pricing the mod the same range as the game or it's DLC... which is ridiculous. Unless ofc, it can match the same quality~ In the end, all that time and effort could have been better spent working for an actual company, of which you would have been paid more for your efforts~ Hell, even making an Indie game would be better.

There were many arguments spread throughout the Nexus blogs as well as on here. Many that are highly reasonable, logical, have general understanding of how the modding system works. As well as have knowledge, experience, and education in said field... it's just that many seem to ignore those points and instead point out the posts that are the opposite in an attempt to spread hate and to detract from those facts, because 'entitlement'.

It was far from an overreaction, it was a typical reaction. TES mods aren't like TF2's mods, they aren't silly little hats and cosmetic items. Steams current system does not work for such mods, and will need a serious revamp before it attempts to do so again...

Either that, or they nerf the hell out of the Creation Kit/G.E.C.K so you can only create basic content :3... I wonder, which will be cheaper for both companies, hm? After all, it's only money that matters in the end, right?... :twirl:

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Tanya
 
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:01 am

Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:42 pm

No. Actually, no. A big project incurs larger risk but has the potential to earn more (which is how that works). Also, do you know how much work making tools an engine is? That's FAR more risk than your aforementioned big project.

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Keeley Stevens
 
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Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:04 pm

Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:54 am

Except even that's a flawed argument. If you think Valve and Bethesda were doing nothing with their cuts of the money, I'm not sure any response would satisfy you. It's already been repeatedly explained what their cuts were paying for.

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Doniesha World
 
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:12 pm

Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:54 pm

Like I said, that depends on how much you sell it for, how many people buy it, and the amount of people on your team (the more people, the less profit). If you don’t produce something that is on par with the vanilla game/DLC despite it being priced roughly the same (or in some cases as we saw, more), then customers will be put off buying your product, or will resort to piracy to get it.

As for the second sentance, I don’t mean to come off as rude, but can you reword it as I didn’t understand you :S

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Jenna Fields
 
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Post » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:20 am

My point is that you're working with a safety net. Developing your own game removes that net.

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Symone Velez
 
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