Doubtful you know the definition of invisibility.

:facepalm:

God so much better, Mr. Copperfield comes from a time when you still had to have showmanship to be considered a good magician...

These days is seems that you do not need to do "patter" at all as long as you look "cool".

I dropped out of a career in stage magic because I could not "improvise" nor "patter" to save my life.
Now I see a guy worse than I was (at the showmanship) and still he is considered to be a great magician!!!?

sorry...for the rant...I guess I am getting too old and "crotchety".

Several posters have stridently maintained that invisibility in Skyrim is the result of light being manipulated. But it is not.

I'll explain my logic.

Invisible means "unseen", "not viewable".

In the game "Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim", "invisibility" spell is a spell in the school of Illusion.

When you hit the tab key, select "skills" and highlight "illusion" you'll see this sentence, which I quote verbatim, "The school of illusion involves manipulating the minds of the enemy". With no further exposition on the nature of the skill.

Take this premise: The game states what the makers of the game intend it too, and is thus, always correct.

This game is fiction. In a fictional movie called "X-men: First Class", soviet guards, searching the back of a truck, see nothing, and let the truck pass. Then the shot shows that there is a group of characters in the back of the truck that were not seen. One of these characters is a master of telepathy called "Charles Xavier". Initially this tangent may seem unrelated. It is not. It establishes a precedent in fantasy fiction literature (it's been done before, elsewhere). Ask any attorney the importance of precedence to a ruling. The precedent may not hold sway, but it is carefully considered. And it must be considered here as well. Invisibility through mind control has been established in fiction.

Now, take these 5 pieces of knowledge, and apply them to the question "How does invisibility work in Skyrim?"

3 possible answers exist.

Invisibility is the bending of light around a target, so that the target reflects no light, and is, therefore not viewable.

A subjects coloring so closely matches the background, that no contrast exists. Though light is reflecting off the subject, it's existence cannot be defined by sight.

Subject 1 is said to possess "magic" that effects the mind. Subject 1 cannot be viewed by subject 2 because the mind of subject 2 has not been allowed to process the information that would allow knowledge of subject 1's existence.

Now, taking the 5 pieces of information initially provided into context, which of those 3 choices most likely answers the question that was asked?

Invisibility should make you not seen. But creatures can still:

- see footsteps and movements you cause on environment (water splash, stepping on bushes, etc,,,);
- hear you;
- smell you;
- guess somethings not right;

so maybe Inv should just trick the most immediate of all sense perceptions only - sight - and to completely escape unnoticed u should need Sneak or some spell like Silent Move. Or have Sanctuary back?

If the subject casting the invisibility spells (subject 1) is controlling the mind of Subject 2 to not be seen, why would subject 2 be able to see footsteps...dust or leaves being disturbed? Subject 1 is controlling subject 2's sight. Taking the premise that it is ONLY the sight of subject 2 that subject 1 is trying to effect.

But yes, sound and scent would not be effected (according to the aforementioned premise).

Invisibilty in TES V is plain broken, everyone has the sense of an expert moth monk.
But really, having 10 enemies home in on you while your silently (muffled) and invisibly running in circles is plain stupid.
I could understand it having no effect on the Falmer, and with the Falmer a Muffle should be teh same as invisibility.

To make it even more absurd, you really can go "invisible" by doing a squat in a corner, yet casting a spell that makes you non-visable fails... its lame, and just another example of the devolution of magic into a steaming pile of magical crapness.

In TES VI they probably turn conjurations into MMO vanity pets.

You're complaining about something being illogical...

In a game with elves and dragons...

Ironically, youre complaining about something that doesnt make sense, when "making enemy not see me but I do not manipulate light" makes no sense either, if you do not manipulate light, and you can force the enemy "to not see you" then in reality they should be looking at a void where you are, because the light behind you would never reach their eyes.

Is an illusion.
As in, not real.

And invisibility has been nerfed to death in this installment.
This is what happens when too many people make nonsensical claims about something being 'overpowered', whatever the hell that means when it comes to something wholly optional in a single player game.

And its why we cant have nice things.

Invisibility is terrible in this game. I tried to get around the stupid markarth guard glitch by sneaking past the guards while invisible, and it just doesn't work. They know exactly where I am! And my sneak skill is early 70's so they shouldn't be able to hear me.

I think some people are confused over invisibility and chameleon, they are different things. Chameleon was broken in Oblivion, invisibility was not. I agree with OP's point. It is a mental spell, so if I cast invisibility, those who are affected by my spell should be confused over where I am. They can resist it somewhat and try to locate me. Which in this case I would imagine they will have a fuzzy vision of me, and therefore can attack me. As to people saying is not fun to use invisibility and not actually being invisible. My solution is to turn invisibility to Alteration, then the spell will not be mental, but you will actually be using chameleon. We can also add a new spell to illusion for losing a spell.

That's because *Power gamers don't like perks unless they're completely nerfed...IE: still being seen while invisable UNLESS you spend 50 additional hours grinding out the 2 potions that will make the perk functional for a brief 1 second while draining you of 50 points of stamina and health for 120 secs.. :rolleyes: I'm sorry, but I used to be a powergamer, now I would rather play the game rather than take it on as a second job! :tongue:

*Havin' a bit of satire at the Power Gamer's expense, not to be taken seriously, but this IS power gamers that we're talkin' about after all!




THIS, Definately, THIS!

Both applied a chameleon effect... Just because it's an Illusion spell doesn't mean it involves some kind of mind altering powers. Invisibility and Chameleon are Illusion spells because they give the illusion that nothing is there, you're an illusionist, not a psionic.

Npc's can still locate you by sound and by the signs on the floor, dustprints, moving clutter, etc. You only give them the illusion that they can't see you. You don't change their hearing or other senses.

Chameleon was much better............. :wink_smile:

Skyrim is one game in the series, again, know more about the SERIES and how illusion works. Explanations? Ive told you a dozen times now to go read the in game books and lore revolving around Illusion. You don't, therefore you must not want to know the truth or whats really happening in regards to how illusion, specifically invisibility works. Its the manipulation of light.

This topic title of the first post was "Invisibility in Skyrim is Illogical". See what I mean now?

How many times DO I have to say....when Bethesda says illusion is one thing, AND THEN says it's another thing. That creatures a paradox AND THAT IS ILLOGICAL That is the title of the first post.. I really can't make it any simpler. But you seem to be trying to convince me that invisibility is light oriented. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT I SET FORWARD. I SAID THE FUNCTION OF INVISIBILITY IS ILLOGICAL

That invisibility in Skyrim is said to be mental, regardless of previous lore is one thing that is ILLOGICAL. <--- is the keyword.

They are not saying its another thing entirley. Its always been that. Light has always been manipulated by Illusion. Its manipulating light. Point to where they say that invisability in Skyrim is all mental, in tose exact words... they dont. Bending light is a mental manipulation, as well as the physical manipulation of light. Otherwise spells like Blind would have been casted on yourself, and invisabilty spells would have to be casted on targets and not yourself.

/thread

I think you and many others in this thread are giving the AI too much credit. the same AI that come out with "Oh, i must've just imagined...", then go back to whatever they were doing before all their buddies were slain before their very eyes. That's also ignoring the fact the npc in question also has an arrow sticking out his forehead.

Put simply, there's no logic in how the AI interacts with the player. The AI is simply not smart enough to deal with all your variables.

Agreed.

Well, that's the idea

I'm not giving the AI any credit. That post you quoted is just saying that it works like it should for me personally. Obviously the AI wont work right all the time, and there's too many variables. But I'm personally not seeing anything wrong with invisibility in Skyrim. Its working exactly how I figured it would.

I've used invisibility (in potion form) several times in Skyrim with no problems. Just be undetected before using and don't make much noise. I use the Muffle perk and have the Muffle spell active to keep my heavy armor from sounding like a junk pile.

Most of the posts i've read are saying skyrim's invisibilty spell is useless... if you think so, your using it wrong.

Invisibility is used to avoid combat altogether... all you use invisibilty for is to slip by someone undetected, not to escape a fight or do whatever makes you think it's broken in the first place.

I personally think it's perfect, and am not understanding how everyone else thinks it svcks.. I mean i havent been detected while invisible once, unless i was in midcombat (learn the hard way that a giant can see your mirage if he's already noticed you)

Invisibility is not supposed to be this perfect "fix all problem you can't see me" mega spell.. it's meant to be used tactically and to avoid combat

now there is an oxymoronic title if I ever saw one. But yeah I get what you mean, maybe they didn't want it to be op again?