IRL Elder Scrolls

Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:02 am

The Elder Scrolls are said to contain within http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lost-histories-tamriel.

Let me introduce to you the https://libraryofbabel.info/.

Within the library of babel you will find anything that has ever been said or will be said using the 26 letters of the alphabet, commas, spaces, and periods; up to 3200 characters. This makes for 105000 pages available for browsing in the library. An excellent explanation of the algorithm used in Babel is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrBIKOR01c&t=17m5s.

And yes, you can find the 1st Sermon of Vivec on page 332 of volume 19 on shelf 5 of wall 1 of hexagon:

Spoiler
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
if you wanna give it a read, of course. :wink:

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Lyndsey Bird
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:06 pm

Can't stop typing in meaningless gibberish to see that it is (inevitably) already done.

Computers have now literally thought of everything.

The Tsaesci were right; something something algorithms, something something alphabet virus, something something calculation powder.

*Past the star-line, dead-talking continued*

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Carlos Vazquez
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:11 am

By Akatosh! Borges was right!

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rebecca moody
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:56 am

My god that's terrifying. I plugged in the first paragraph of the children's story I'm writing and sure enough there it was!

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ijohnnny
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:06 pm

Am I blind? I'm not seeing sermon 1 in the quoted text.
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Lavender Brown
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:59 am

There's no essential reason why we can't have a neural-network ish solution that arrives by feedback at the situation where we have encoding symbols of meaning rather than just letters. Meaning, that is, with significance understood by the computer. Then we just use the same algorithmic approach as Babel, only we deterministically combine some idea-symbols with idea-symbols specific to language and writing, and we can then have a subset of the Infinite Library where every book actually has a predefined meaning and can be read. The downside of this is that it's not really possible to find extant books in the library, or even prove that they are in the library in literal terms. You'd need a "symbolic translation" of a given book for that, which varies with personal interpretation. Still, I reckon that the symbol-with-meaning version of the Library of Babel is what the Elder Scrolls actually are. Only certain meaning-symbols are too holy for mortals or whatever.

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Emmi Coolahan
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:25 am

What is this thread?

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Bethany Short
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:35 am

You're not blind. The quoted text is just the hexagonal address for the text. If I didn't screw it up, just copy the entire quoted text and go to "Browse" the library. When it asks for the hexagon, paste the address and hit enter. Then enter the wall (1) the shelf (5) and the volume (19). That will bring you to the volume in question, and just enter the page number up (332) up top and that'll take you to the page.

I didn't intend to draw a 1-to-1 comparison with the Elder Scrolls themselves, but I'm glad we both see the powerful similarities. I like the idea of ideograms facing interpretation. In many ways each ideogram acts in quantum ways. It can be interpreted in any number of ways, but once the Event occurs, you can only read it one way.

Over-kill, go to hexagon:

Spoiler
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

Wall 4

Shelf 3

Volume 7

Page 171

You tell me.

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Pumpkin
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:21 am

"Even the Elder Scrolls do not mention [the Dragon Break]--let me correct myself, the Elder Scrolls cannot mention it. When the Moth priests attune the Scrolls to the timeless time their glyphs always disappear."

The Babel Scrolls are in theory impervious to the effects of the Dragon Break, but it is language that animates it. The Amulet of Kings is the Rosetta stone that gives us the context to make out the glyphs from the noise. The emperors are cultural context that gives meaning to prophecy.

The library of Jyggalag probably has a few wings made over to repeatedly writing out the entire contents of the Babel Scrolls under slightly differing parameters: clearly informative, but missing the point.

Bonus points to anyone who can read the Library of Babel code and tell us how many books (if any) contain as contents their own hexagon index. That's our Dragon Scroll

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kevin ball
 
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Post » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:10 pm

Somewhere in there lies the world's greatest joke ever to be told, waiting to be uncovered.

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Heather Kush
 
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Post » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:20 am

The Elder Scrolls operate on a similar concept, only with 10x the starting potential variables. None of this 23-lowercase-character limit garbage.

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lucile
 
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Post » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:12 pm

The odd thing about the library of Babel is its demonstration of "meaning" as forming patterns out of meaningless data. Even with only a simple alphabet, there is already more "data" in Babel than the most precisely detailed history of our entire universe. The difference is that Babel is too systematic--because it's designed to have all possible character combinations and leave no blanks, it works out to just pseudorandom noise overall. When we type in the address of Vivec's first lesson, we're not removing entropy but just ignoring it.

Jyggalag's library would operate on the same concept, but I like the idea of the Scrolls being at least in line with the generally anthropocentric history of Tamriel. I suppose the Grey Maybe is equivalent to finding a certain subset of the library which, when laid end-to-end, there is at least one guaranteed interpretation of those books that simulates all of spacetime with a few dragon gods in the mix. I'm not thinking enough to see whether that's likely to exist in Babel as it stands, but you could just keep extending the length of all books until you got an even bigger library where it was almost certain.

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Amy Masters
 
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