[sarah]

Well, as I've been doing some work on the side in this area for Cobl and MMM it only made sense to update II while I was at it, particularly as the new beta for MMM finally went public. :tops:
Please note that I haven't done the necessary work to deal with the recent updates to Armamentarium and that's roughly next on my list of things to do. Additionally, Haama is making some adjustments to some stuff in Cobl and I expect that will affect II, so there may be a new version again *very soon* after the next Cobl release.

So, v0.77 is up on http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17557 and should be up at PES fairly soon.

Changelog:
v0.77 Updated support for new MMM material. Updated various entries over numerous mods to ensure maximum compatibility. Added slaughterfish tweaks for numerous mods.

Enjoy,

Vac

Edit: And http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=325732&id=4805 should be working

[Chloe Botham]

great as always!
Pacific Morrowind

[Andrew Perry]

As a note, the upcoming Cobl will (as far as I know) include an MMM Cobl patch that probably *isn't* terribly compatible with II. I'm not too sure how to handle that just yet, so anyone installing the *new* MMM Cobl patch when it gets released should probably switch to using the FCOM version of II until further notice.
I'm sure I'll work something else out once I see what's happening.

Vac

[Sxc-Mary]

Changelog:
v0.77 Updated support for new MMM material. Updated various entries over numerous mods to ensure maximum compatibility. Added slaughterfish tweaks for numerous mods.

Thanks Vacuity, will get it loaded and start using it.

As a note, the upcoming Cobl will (as far as I know) include an MMM Cobl patch that probably *isn't* terribly compatible with II. I'm not too sure how to handle that just yet, so anyone installing the *new* MMM Cobl patch when it gets released should probably switch to using the FCOM version of II until further notice.
I'm sure I'll work something else out once I see what's happening.

Vac

I will have to report back to you about this after I do the check myself and see how bad they are going to conflict with each other. Since II was adding cobl items to many of mmm creatures, now mmm cobl patch does that . But will report back..

[Harry Hearing]

Would this be a possible addition to II?
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=620

I don't remember if you hate all equipment mods or just armors

Kep up the good work

CC

[Suzy Santana]

Would this be a possible addition to II?
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=620

I don't remember if you hate all equipment mods or just armors

Kep up the good work

CC

I'm even less interested in clothes mods than armour mods, but not really interested in either of them in general. As I've now added in the mechanism for handling weapons and armour into II I could probably add support for a lot more weapons and armour, however I've got no mechanism at present for handling clothes and robes, and considering how much work it was putting in the support for weapons and armour (I figured before I did it that it would be a lot, and in the end it was even more) my enthusiasm for adding in a large feature chunk I will most likely not use is fairly small. I will consider it, however. Somewhere fairly low down my list.

Vac

[Bird]

I'm even less interested in clothes mods than armour mods, but not really interested in either of them in general. As I've now added in the mechanism for handling weapons and armour into II I could probably add support for a lot more weapons and armour, however I've got no mechanism at present for handling clothes and robes, and considering how much work it was putting in the support for weapons and armour (I figured before I did it that it would be a lot, and in the end it was even more) my enthusiasm for adding in a large feature chunk I will most likely not use is fairly small. I will consider it, however. Somewhere fairly low down my list.

Vac

Haha, no worries, I was just noticeing the appalling lack of modded clothing via leveled lists, and felt this was worth mentioning

[Natalie Taylor]

Haha, no worries, I was just noticeing the appalling lack of modded clothing via leveled lists, and felt this was worth mentioning

The lack of clothing in leveled lists is a contributing factor to why I've never felt very pressed or concerned about adding support for clothes. I believe Core has/had some kind of general clothing mod in the planning stage somewhere. I have no idea what it's current status is (because I never looked at it, being a clothing mod), but if a clothing mod was to get me to add support for clothes it would probably need to be a big one by someone I like working with. Most of the effort I would have to put in would be setting up the meta-library inside II, and that's a lot of initial work. Doing all that for one small mod is a waste of time. Doing it for dozens of small mods is just plain annoying. Doing it for a big mod is much more worthwhile, and I find Corepc's work very easy to understand in general, so it would most likely be quite simple to work with as an initial clothing mod to support and provide the core (pun intended) set of items.

Vac

[Scotties Hottie]

Would this be a possible addition to II?
CC

Haha, no worries, I was just noticeing the appalling lack of modded clothing via leveled lists, and felt this was worth mentioning

Very True there is lack of modded clothing added to leveledlist, but, I have a project in the works that should fix that..RandomClothing4Npcs..

The lack of clothing in leveled lists is a contributing factor to why I've never felt very pressed or concerned about adding support for clothes. I believe Core has/had some kind of general clothing mod in the planning stage somewhere. I have no idea what it's current status is (because I never looked at it, being a clothing mod), but if a clothing mod was to get me to add support for clothes it would probably need to be a big one by someone I like working with. Most of the effort I would have to put in would be setting up the meta-library inside II, and that's a lot of initial work. Doing all that for one small mod is a waste of time. Doing it for dozens of small mods is just plain annoying. Doing it for a big mod is much more worthwhile, and I find Corepc's work very easy to understand in general, so it would most likely be quite simple to work with as an initial clothing mod to support and provide the core (pun intended) set of items.

Vac

Vacuity, I would love to see clothing has well, but, it will take a while for me to build it before it could be put to use. You know me, I take my time building stuff so that is easy for everyone to use.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1039869 is the mod that spread out leveledlist clothing to npcs. Currently just vanilla clothing. I still need to build my master.esm that will contain all the modded stuff that I plan on using. Started working on a list of what I plan on adding posted in that thread. But still a far way from even closely being done.

[Philip Lyon]

v0.78 has just been uploaded to http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17557.

The only change was adding full support for VASE.

Unfortunately PES is not letting me log in and I don't have time to deal with that right now. In fact, actually, between releasing VASE earlier this evening and releasing this update now, life has managed to really dump on me and I'm not very happy or impressed with a few things.

In any case, aside from supporting VASE, II should be my major priority for a wee while.

Vac

[Michael Russ]

Congratulations on and thanks for the update, but I'm a little confused.

COBL 1.72 already includes all eight ESPs from II (though presumably the previous version), so I'm not getting how to use this update, especially since it also requires COBL (which already includes it).

Is the idea that I should overwrite the COBL-provided version with your update, or.... some other methodology that I'm missing?

[Sammie LM]

Is the idea that I should overwrite the COBL-provided version with your update, or.... some other methodology that I'm missing?

The "idea" is that the version with Cobl is outdated at this stage. What do you so with an outdated version of a mod? Remove it and stick the most recent version in, of course.

Vac

[Red Bevinz]

v0.78 has just been uploaded to http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17557.

The only change was adding full support for VASE.

Thanks for the update

[Add Me]

Thanks for the update

My pleasure.

I'll try and get this baby updated a bit more in the near(ish) future. There's still a bunch of mods that I intend to add support for and haven't got around to yet. For that matter, the list of targets isn't actually so long, and as I've spent most of the last few months with my head in the clouds (particle-system based, of course) I'm not sure what other mods I can/should add support for.

The (not really) recent (any more) updates to Bash features means I can actually go back and take a look at expanding II features a little more as well. Mod added vendors selling ALEX items, for example.

Vac

Edit: Nearly forgot, did you have a think about the list structure I suggested for the TT vendor lists?

[Jade]

Hi all! I had a bit of trouble with II before, probably due to getting it installed wrong when I was just figuring out Wrye Bash. But I have had a good stable load order recently, so I wanted to revisit II and get it working. I installed the latest version, and the game runs fine.

I just have a couple questions:

1. Is there any performance impact from using II?

2. What can I do as a quick test to verify that II is doing its job ingame? Does it add items to containers or only vendors?

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Jog_X_Mod.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.7]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]04  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.3]05  Better Cities Resources.esm06  BathingMod_Base.esm07  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.2]08  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]09  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0A  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0B  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0C  Better Cities .esp0D  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp0E  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.7]0F  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.7]10  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.7]11  All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  [Version 0.9.6]12  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp13  Better Bell Sounds.esp++  ln.esp14  Echo_ChapelChant.esp15  AmbientTownSounds.esp16  Storms & Sound.esp++  Stormier storms.esp17  Rainbows.esp18  WindowLightingSystem.esp19  AliveWaters.esp1A  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp1B  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp1C  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp1D  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp1E  Chapel Tithe.esp++  CM_Better Wine.esp++  Cyrodilic Brandy.esp1F  Days&Months.esp20  Inebriation.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]21  Medic!.esp22  P1DmenuEscape.esp23  Oblivion Cats v0.2b.esp24  Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp25  P1DseeYouSleep.esp26  Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp++  Regrowing Nirnroot - Normal Plant.esp  [Version 1.01]27  SoT_Holiday.esp28  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 3.2.1]29  Crowded Roads Revisited.esp  [Version 1.1]2A  Duke Patricks - Friendship Ring For Companion Detection.esp2B  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.0.1]2C  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0]++  HGEC_special_armor_repl.esp2D  CapesandCloaks.esp2E  DarkSaintHGEC.esp++  RustyItems.esp2F  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.4]30  Thieves Arsenal.esp31  HorseSpeedEqualsPlayerSpeed.esp32  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]33  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]++  Cobl Tweaks.esp  [Version 1.44]++  ArmamentariumLL.esp  [Version 1.3]++  ArmamentariumLLMagic.esp  [Version 1.3]34  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.3]++  ArmamentariumLLArmaVendor.esp  [Version 1.3]35  kuerteeWanderingEncounters.esp36  TIE.esp37  Cyrodiil transportation network 1.3.esp38  Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp39  Anvil_MorningGloryBetterCities_Mixed.esp3A  Basemant for Cobl.esp3B  Better Benirus Manor - Helping Hands.esp3C  Better Benirus Manor for Cobl - Complete.esp3D  BHC_Expanded.esp  [Version 1.2]3E  Delivery Job - BC.esp3F  Gold Road Cottage - Classy.esp40  LetThePeopleDrink.esp  [Version 2.5]41  thievery.esp42  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 1.0]43  VaultsofCyrodiil.esp44  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp45  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 1.3]46  za_bankmod.esp47  24HrArenaAliveV2.esp48  Knights.esp49  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]4A  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.4.4]4B  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.1]4C  Faregyl.esp  [Version 1.0.9]4D  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.3]4E  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.1]4F  xulTheHeath.esp50  XulEntiusGorge.esp51  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]52  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2]53  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]54  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.2]55  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]56  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]57  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.1]58  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]59  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.1]5A  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.2]5B  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]5C  xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp  [Version 1.3.2]5D  xulPantherRiver.esp5E  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.1]5F  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]60  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.3]61  xulBlackwoodForest.esp62  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0]63  NRB4+UL-II+LtPD Patch.esp  [Version 2.1]64  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Basemant for Cobl - My Custom Plants Show Harvested Status.esp65  Cliff_BetterLetters.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Essential_Trainers-8374.esp66  Oblivifall - Something's Not Right.esp  [Version 1.0]67  ReneerNPCSneakMod.esp68  Rune Stones!.esp++  ShinySeptims_Septimus.esp++  ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp69  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp6A  Storms & Sound - Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp6B  Storms & Sound - Bank of Cyrodiil.esp6C  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]6D  Roleplaying Dialogues.esp6E  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp6F  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]70  BathingMod_Soap.esp71  BathingMod_Bathroom_Upgrades.esp72  BathingMod_Placeable_Bathtubs.esp73  RealisticFatigue.esp74  RealisticHealth.esp75  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.3.4]76  RefScope.esp  [Version 1.3.0]77  RshAlchemy.esp78  EnchantmentRestore.esp++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp79  attack and hide harder v2.0.esp7A  StealthOverhaul.esp7B  RenGuardOverhaul.esp7C  RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.esp7D  Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrow Shots Alert The Target.esp7E  Duke Patricks - NPC MAGIC and Arrows Can Miss Now.esp7F  Duke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.esp80  Wrye Leveling.esp  [Version 07]++  Idle Pose Replacer.esp81  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]82  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]83  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]84  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]85  bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp  [Version 1.68UV]++  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]86  Vypers Arrow Spells-SI.esp87  Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp88  Better Cities Full.esp89  BCBravilFULL-Barrowfields patch.esp8A  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.esp8B  BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp8C  Better Cities - Thievery.esp++  Better Cities - TIE Restricted Area.esp8D  Better Imperial City.esp8E  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]++  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp8F  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp90  Get Wet.esp++  Real Lava 1.3.esp91  Shining Flame Atronachs.esp92  MiniMap.esp93  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp++  CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp94  Upbringing.esp95  leia.esp96  Velveteen_Armor_HGEC.esp97  Chin CatSuit.esp++  Item interchange - Placement.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 0.78]98  Bashed Patch, 0.esp++  Duke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer.esp99  kuerteeCleanUp.esp9A  Streamline 3.1.esp

[Anna S]

Hi all! I had a bit of trouble with II before, probably due to getting it installed wrong when I was just figuring out Wrye Bash. But I have had a good stable load order recently, so I wanted to revisit II and get it working. I installed the latest version, and the game runs fine.

I just have a couple questions:

1. Is there any performance impact from using II?

2. What can I do as a quick test to verify that II is doing its job ingame? Does it add items to containers or only vendors?

Hi,

It's a non-trivial installation process for II, for better or worse. More and more people are capable of working with Wrye Bash though, so the mod is more accessible than it used to be, I think.

I'm not aware of II adding any performance hit. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but when I've been testing stuff out I've never noticed any difference in anything when using II or not using II. Remember that II is script-free and quest-free, only affecting leveled lists and inventories, so there's very limited scope for affecting general performance.

If you want to make a quick test to see if it's working in game then go to an alchemy vendor and look for ingredients coming from other mods such as the alive waters mod. Alternatively go to a guild hall and look through the containers which contain food and you'll find bits and pieces coming from mods like Alive Waters and Better Cities. As distribution is done by leveled lists I can't promise what you'll find in any given container except that it should be appropriate for the setting.

Vac

Edit: Answering the specific question: at present II does not add anything to any containers. It does change the lists *used* by a lot of containers though.

[danni Marchant]

Alright, I'm considering a relatively serious change to the II plugin format and I thought I'd offer the idea up for consideration here on the boards. Considering how much activity the II thread gets I'm not expecting heaps of responses, but don't let that stop you from posting! :icecream:

At present there's two major placement plugins: Item interchange - Placement and Item interchange - Placement for FCOM. These plugins are mutually exclusive and cover *everything* II does, without exception. I am considering separating II's placement plugins into II - Equipment Placement, Item interchange - Placement and Item interchange - Placement for FCOM. The latter two plugins remain mutually exclusive but go back to making *no* changes to weapons and armour (as it used to be). The II - Equipment Placement plugin will do all the weapon/armour swaps (and probably clothing if I *ever* do clothing) and will be usable with either of the regular placement plugins.

How does this sound? It's a little more fiddly for me I think, but I can probably bear it, particularly as combat equipment was never really a part of the original vision for II.

Any questions or feedback on the idea?

Vac

[Joe Bonney]

whatever you choose to do, it's gonna be awesome and everyone knows it already

I do have a vision though: it seems to me that II would work wonders if it worked together with the Merchant and Loot Overhaul. MALO already adds a lot of items to the game, and it distributes them cleverly making each kind of dungeon a lot more unique... the thought of having all of MALO's cool stuff redistributed by II alongside a whole lot of mods is mindblowing. like tamriel travellers selling torches from Com's torch compendium, just a tiny little example of something that could be incredible

[aisha jamil]

MALO

Ahh, yeah, I keep forgetting about that one. I should check it over again and see what can be done there. I'll stick it in the list of targets for now anyway that should be enough to remind me later.

Vac

Edit: As I recall when I check MALO over before there didn't seem like a whole lot for II to do in relation to it anyway. MALO works with containers, II works with lists and actor inventories. Anyway, as II can now work with containers too, I'll take a re-look.

[Franko AlVarado]

Alright, I'm considering a relatively serious change to the II plugin format...

What is the benefit of splitting the .esp files into equipment and item? Is it to give the users a more modular choice, or is it to keep your edits more manageable?

[Sherry Speakman]

What is the benefit of splitting the .esp files into equipment and item? Is it to give the users a more modular choice, or is it to keep your edits more manageable?

Strange as it might sound, it actually makes the maintenence somewhat harder (which in turn means less frequent/fewer II updates). The major issue at present is that the optional plugins affecting equipment stocks for Tamriel Travellers confict with II (basically II overrides them completely). I've suggested an alternative way of setting up the leveled lists to Corepc that I believe would be much superior but he's never commented on that suggestion (and he's a very busy guy, so I'm not holding that against him in any way :wave: There's only so much one guy can do each day after all). Nevertheless, as (for example) most OOO and FCOM players don't want high level equipment on sale anywhere this is a problem in the current format and means these people won't use II, which seems a shame to me. If I separate out all the equipment tweaks then it is in a sense pre-empting any other future issues of this sort. It does also present a more modular format in a reasonably sensible way: the combat equipment is separated (and therefore optional) from the regular loot/vendor tweaks. Other than the incompatibilities mentioned above, I'm not too sure why anyone wouldn't want them, but...

Vac

[GEo LIme]

Strange as it might sound, it actually makes the maintenence somewhat harder

Tough call. I personally am in the FCOM camp, and I can definitely see why I might not want the equipment added to the merchant lists. It's ultimately up to you, but I'd vote for the proposed split.

[Campbell]

Edit: Nearly forgot, did you have a think about the list structure I suggested for the TT vendor lists?

The major issue at present is that the optional plugins affecting equipment stocks for Tamriel Travellers confict with II (basically II overrides them completely). I've suggested an alternative way of setting up the leveled lists to Corepc that I believe would be much superior but he's never commented on that suggestion (and he's a very busy guy, so I'm not holding that against him in any way :wave: There's only so much one guy can do each day after all).

Nevertheless, as (for example) most OOO and FCOM players don't want high level equipment on sale anywhere this is a problem in the current format and means these people won't use II, which seems a shame to me.

If I separate out all the equipment tweaks then it is in a sense pre-empting any other future issues of this sort. It does also present a more modular format in a reasonably sensible way: the combat equipment is separated (and therefore optional) from the regular loot/vendor tweaks.

Vac

Once I get all my other projects out the way (Arma, Artifacts, EVE) , then Travellers will get my full attention which means rebuilding my leveledlist has needed.

Just like what you suggested in old travellers thread..sublist etc..

I do like the idea myself..Equipment (armor and weapons) kept seperate, for balancing reasons..

[Leah]

Hi Vac, I'm currently catching up on your great mods (VASE and ALEX are really awesome :goodjob: ) and I think II might be something I'd really like to have in my game, but I have one question. I'm in the habit of tweaking the mods I use with the CS to adjust weapon stats and item names to my liking, would this create any kinds of conflicts with II? For example, if I tweak the damage a weapon does, and then add II, what would be the end result? My tweaks are kept? The weapon reverts to it's old stats? A black hole opens up and svcks in the whole solar system?

Thanks for any info

[Scott]

II will just redistribute the weapon as it is, don't worry!