Greetings,

I will propose to you all a theory about what Skyrim may hold for us. Obviously, we can't verify whether it's correct, but we can certainly talk about whether it's coherent. I am far from being a master of the complicated lore of the Elder Scrolls universe, so please do correct me if my arguments seem to misstate how the mythos operates.the d

1. A cult, serving Mehrunes Dagon, will attempt to destroy Snow Throat, one of the last remaining Towers.
Source: Oblivion, Morrowind.

2. Dagon's cult will use deceit to cause the masses to believe that Akatosh/Alduin, the World-Eater, must be conquered, and Snow Throat must be destroyed that Men and Mer may conquer Time itself.
Source: http://imperial-library.info/content/fight-one-eating-birth-dagon

3. The "Dragons" mentioned in the trailer are the Jills, the mender of minutes.
Source: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

4. The PC, dragon-born, will be brought into play (whether created by or simply fated by) the Jills in an attempt to counteract Dagon's attempt at destroying Snow Throat.
Based upon (1) and the newly released trailer.

5. The PC will fail, and Snow Throat will be destroyed.
Based on Morrowind, Oblivion.

6. By now, we should be noticing an enantiomorph:
King: Akatosh
Rebel: Dagon

7. Akatosh will be mutilated, and Dagon, as Lorkhan/Rebel, will become king.

8. The PC (dragon-born) shall then become the Rebel, as Dagon is King. The importance of this cannot be understated-- now that Dagon is King, the PC can become Rebel, and thus has a line to become King.
Source: http://imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel

9. The PC will defeat the King-- the PC becomes God, the "New Man". He may even reach CHIM and produce Amaranth-- we know it happens sometime, and this seems like a perfect occasion:
Source: http://imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel

So, thoughts? Comments? Did I make a fool of myself and slaughter the lore? Could we possibly improve the legitimacy/coherency of my predictions, or is it trash?

Thanks!

Dagon better not be the main enemy in this. :stare:

Not sure if your lore is correct though. But I do not want the same enemy twice in a row.

That would be very welcome, I do not think it will happen though...
Otherwise I believe this could be close, why not? And if so, I would like it. Except # 9, I do NOT want to be any bloody god.

Ironically, you would be a bloody god. I should clarify: you would be a god in the sense that Vivec was a God, not the sense that the 8/9 Divines are gods. And I don't imagine any mantelling occurring, so I don't thing you would ascend like Septim. But, that's just me.

Never the less, I just don't like the idea that the player is worshiped or a hero or similar. It is too much of it already.
But I think I am going against the stream here as seemingly most people likes the idea of being a hero and being worshiped.

Time will tell if you "nailed" this one.

Spoilers for Shivering Isles ahead!

Fair enough; I appreciate your candor. However, there is a huge difference between being a god and being worshiped as a god, especially in the Elder Scrolls universe. Consider, for example, when the player takes the role of Sheogorath from Jyggalag. The player became a god. Did you find that unenjoyable?

Since the Nord's don't have a high opinion of Akatosh anyways, the sort of god that you would become would probably not become very well-received, either. I think that this whole dragon-born thing may be far more negative than people make it out to be...

Yes I did. Or rather I felt that it was too much combined with champion of cyrodiil, archmage etc etc... At least the idea of it, I normally never finish the MQ or a fraction to avoid this position.


I like the sound of that.
A "rescue" by the dragon-borne would be a big camel to eat for the Nords.

Yet, nords will try to beat the crap out of breton for daring to suggest that Tiber Septim, the Dragonborn, was a breton and not a nord. Also, the rebel is Shor, not Dagon. It's a constant battle between Lorkhan and Akatosh. As for Dagon, he and Alduin have similar goals, the destruction of Mundus. Read the 7 fights of aldugadjghladkjhgdasjhgl (look at Lady Nerevar's lore compendium thread)

Also, a lot of what you posted looks like it grasps at straws, is a misinterpretation, and wrong at parts.

Care to explain?

In the morning. Need to nurse a cold. In the mean time, go look for yourself. TIL has plenty of information for you to pour over.

I don't think that a Daedra can kill an Aedra, and although I like how Lorkhan and Dagon have become a duality I doessn't sound like it would fit lore. Also same baddies again would be boring

Grasps at straws? Absolutely! Misinterpretation? Wrong at parts? Please do correct me. As I mentioned, I am not extremely proficient in the lore, and am open to learning as much as possible. I'm happy to revise the initial post as things become more clear.

Pssss, now that was a lame reply
I agree with the OP, some correction would be nice.

Glad to hear it. I'm sure that, among the critique, would be my account of Jills. To be honest, despite reading and research, I'm still not 100% clear on Akatosh's motivations (or, at least, the predominant accounts of what his motivations probably are). However, the more I read, the more I'm inclined to think that the player will be working for Akatosh in some capacity, and thus be considered to be "bad" by the majority of the population of Skyrim. It'll be interesting to see, at least.

Ugh, you guys are so impatient. As a starter http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1148384-skyrim-lore-compendium/


MD has been thwarted, it's extremely doubtful that attempts will be made for a while, especially since the main cult's leader was killed.


The Greybeards live there. There is no way in hell the populace would listen to some random cultists in disguise when the most powerful tongues can tell them they are wrong, and also turn them into ash just by talking. Plus, the place is also sacred to the nords, and I doubt the nords would do anything to mess with the Greybeards, they're extremely old, wise, and powerful.


Sounds just a lot like a wild guess. Also, why would Akatosh's concubines, sister and repairwomen leave Akatosh just to screw around?


Sounds a little far fetched as there have been no involvement of Jills at all, or really mentioned, other than an obscure text.


Yeah....I doubt the Greybeards would let that happen, especially from a bunch of Dagon worshipers and peasants.


No. Read http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga. If anything, Dagon and Akatosh/Alduin actually have similar goals, the destruction of Mundus.


Shor/Lorkhan/Shezarr is not Dagon. If anything, Dagon is actually Magnus. And if Dagon is king, well, good-bye everyone.


Reread the Loveletters, you seemed to have completely missed the point of the Loveletters.


To be honest, sounds like an asspull, but I do commend you for at least trying.

I want Dagath Ur back.

Isn't Dagon defeated? I don't think he will be returning, probably still in recovery.

Thanks for the replies, Hellmouth!



Fair enough. I actually wouldn't consider the identity of who the "rebel" (in my theory) is to be of the utmost importance. I don't have anyone/thing better to suggest at the moment, but I'll consider.



Perhaps-- but if they were being told something they already believe (that Akatosh is bad news), they would be inclined to believe it.



They wouldn't. They would need a reason. Presumably, the fall of Snow Throat would be sufficient. My idea was based on two notions, actually, from The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga.

1. MD wanted Akatosh to die, and Akatosh tries to explain why it would be a bad idea: "do you even know what would HAPPEN if that happened, my dying and being unable to eat and the kalpa left to run forever?"
2. Just as MB is challenged with, "how can you destroy the hearts of men when those hearts are already empty," Akatosh would have no kalpa to devour if MD's plans from Oblivion had succeeded. Or, so I thought. Honestly, I'm pretty unsure about the nature of kalpa/Akatosh, and any resources on those specific subjects would be greatly appreciated.



Fair enough. However, there will presumably be several dragons in the game. I was thinking about what dragons would be lore-consistent and not-too-obvious, and my mind went to the Jills.



Again, the idea was that it would play on the already-present belief that Akatosh is evil (although I may not understand the cultural belief system correctly).



I'm going to have to give it a second read. I don't see how the destruction of Mundus would benefit Akatosh, although it would benefit Dagon, to be sure.



Cue dramatic tension! climix of ES:V, Skyrim!



Objection, your honor: ambiguous!



Absolutely-- but then, we're theorizing about a game coming out in about 11 months, and all we have is a brief trailer and a wealth of obscure texts. If you were expecting more, I'm not sure why.

Akatosh who is Alduin in nord myths, is the destructor. If you read the 7 fights, you should have picked up that Mehrunes Dagon (who was actually the kind Leaper Demon King{and can be thought to be Magnus}) and The Greedy Man (Shor/Lorkhan/Shezarr) tried to save pieces of everything from previous kalpas, and that Mehrunes Dagon (as the king Leaper Demon King) would teach everyone the ways of cutting corners, in order to not be consumed by Alduin. However, Alduin eventually caught the two, and turned the kind Demon Leaper King into Mehrunes Dagon, and if MD ever wants to go back to becoming the king leaper demon king again, MD needs to destroy everything (an impossible task, mind you). As for the Greedy Man, he is stuck in-between worlds.

To iterate, Akatosh, who is Alduin, is the destructor, and seeks to consume.

Also, the Greybeards are not [censored], the Oblivion Crisis is enough to know how dangerous it is to deactivate a tower, especially since the towers stabilize Mundus. To further add, the nords believe Mundus is Shor's divine mercy. They believe that Shor created Mundus in order to allow the mortals to ascend into a higher plane of existence than the gods, and Vivec agrees with this in the Loveletters. Doing anything to destabilize Mundus or allow it to end would be merish thought, and that is a no go for men (save for the redguards).

Reread everything.

Will do. I am off to re-read. In the meantime, questions meant in all seriousness:

Your description of the Nords' beliefs in the first paragraph sound accurate. However: are the Nords right? I might be completely missing the boat here, but this account of Lorkhan and MD doesn't sound coherent with what I know about the Monomyth. Maybe it is, though, and I'm missing the connection.

Furthermore, after doing more research, I'm a bit perplexed. Kirkbride seems to imply that there could, in fact, be two dragons, and Alduin/Akatosh are not the same:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

"Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with a grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil. Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten."

Although, I may be reading too much into it. Am I correct that this paints Akatosh/Alduin as separate entities, or is this getting into the idea of acting while mantling (as Martin mantled Akatosh, per my understanding)?

Lastly, I completely agree that the Nords would not intentionally de-stabilize Mundus. There would certainly have to be deception involved at some point-- my idea was that it would be taking advantage of the currently present fears about Alduin.

Now, I'm thinking that this might be a better fit for the lore forums, given how it's evolved. I'm sure moderators will handle it as appropriate.

Thanks, again!

No freakin kidding. If there is going to be a daedric prince, I hope they pick one whom we know the least about and see the least of.

Vaermina? Peryite? I'm not sure who it would be, but MD is definitely an easy choice who already has a history with Akatosh. I'll be curious to see how it goes.