I like the way I could kill quest related npcs in Morrowind. For me, being able to kill everyone I see is as important for role playing as being able to loot everything I see on a body. Even on the expense of breaking the main quest (or any other quest). As long as the game alerts me that I just killed a crucial npc, it’s completely my decision to load a saved game or just continue without that npc.

Of course I’m aware this is a tricky thing to implement, especially with the (hopefully) real Radiant AI in Skyrim, but there may be ways that every single character in the game could be mortal without breaking the game completely.

There are two important directions for this matter: player versus npc and npc versus npc. If the player can kill a key npc, there is no logical explanation why every other npc or creature couldn’t. But the question is: does it have to be logical, as long as it gives the player more freedom of choice? Although the player wouldn’t be there to witness the npc vs npc fight where the magical immortality happens, it’s still a half-solution. Besides, there may be a fight situation where the key npc fights at once against the player and another npc.

Another way would be making the key npc’s very hard to kill. Either very strong in their skills, or 24/24 heavily guarded. Killable, but with insanely high difficulty. If I’m really that pissed that I want to kill the damn count at any cost, then I’ll have to put a great effort and patience into this. Then again, how about poor/commoner quest-related npcs? They are not guarded and aren’t suposedly too strong either. That could be a downer, you can’t design the whole quest lines only with counts, fighters and kings in mind.

As you can see, I’m yet to discover a way this could work. Maybe you have better ideas on the matter. All I know is I want everybody mortal and no more “X is unconscious” messages. Immersion breaker, especially when the unconscious npc is on the other side of the map, possibly not yet met by the player. Mortal npcs would add a lot to companions as well. Knowing he/she could die will boost your emotional involvment.

As concerning the quests that you may fail by killing different characters, I liked the quest network in Gothic 3. Many alternative quests. If you choose to help a party, you receive immediately a list of alternative quests that you failed in that very moment. You can kill a future quest person and you get the red message right away, telling you what quest you missed by doing that. It adds to replayability too.

Everyone is mortal, I like how it was done in Morrowind. The way New Vegas did it was also okay, but Morrowind's way is preferable.

I'm in two minds here, on one hand, being able to kill them would add to the whole immersion aspect.
But on the other hand, it'd be hella annoying if you accidentally killed an important NPC...

I voted for every character to be killable; it's kind of immersion breaking when the game tells you Mr. X is "unconscious" and he gets up after 5 seconds and as spry and happy as ever.

Well, if they improve radiant A.I. even more. Which I'm sure they have. I would much prefer option 2. Can you imagine? You're in a cave fighting some bandits then you get a message: "With this person's death a thread in the prophecy is severed. Revert to a previous save or continue in the doomed world you've created" (paraphrased) because Mr. Important to a quest line went and got himself killed by wolves while talking a stroll.

So, mortal to the player, immortal to everyone else.

You make a good point. I should change my vote from 1 to 2.

I figured a few people would change their vote after thinking about it that way. I could foresee that becoming a serious complaint and maybe retconned with a patch if they made everyone mortal to everything and still had Radiant A.I.

You should have called the thread "Socrates is unconscious" or "An unconscious Socrates"

I went for half mortal too. No more quest related people walking off of bridges please.

Half mortal sounds perfect.
That way it could only be your fault.

Everyone mortal sounds cool. I did use this in MW once, I killed in Vivec that hlaalu guy with dubious intents :facepalm: and when I got the message that he was important I reversed to a previous save but man... how I wanted him dead :swear:
Option 2 is the best. I don't care if it's not logical if it's just good for the game. Games are full of tricks and exploits, some visible some invisible.

While I like the idea of everyone being "mortal", in practical application this can be extremely annoying. Imagine if Martin could be killed by a scamp during the main quest. You'd either have to start a new game or use a cheat (and if you were a console player, you were out of luck) in order to continue that play through. Of course, Oblivion's system wasn't any better. I find the "mortal to the player option" to be the best compromise, since vital characters won't be killed by the world but can still be slain by a player. It's a very good compromise that doesn't hurt immersion at all.

Before someone points out a return to Morrowind's system, Morrowind's world wasn't dynamic enough for this to be an issue.

Second option, don't want them to die because a wolf attacked them.

Another way could be to not make the main quest dependant of Any character. A rumour could be said by any person. An object could be recovered from a corpse, or from the killer, or could be put in a pawnshop upon the corpse being deleted. Instead of someone instructing you about something, you could receive the tipical letter ("if you read this I’m dead..."). I don't think there is really needed, to make the main quest dependant on the well being of any NPC.

Essential NPCs also stayed in one place. Try playing Oblivion without unkillable essentials. Countess Alessia Caro of Leyawiin travels to Chorrol monthly. I'd like to see that happen at a high level without her being unkillable. If we have dynamic ai, then we need essentials to be mortal only to us.

I guess it'd be best this way: All characters can be killed. Essential characters, however, go uncounscious when their health reaches 0, and if the player really wants to kill them he has to attack them again. This also means NPCs won't kill essential NPCs, because they would simply not "finish them off", except for quest-relevant situations, such as assassinations or large battles in which essential NPCs are invovled - and on the losing side.

First, I voted "mortal to player imortal to others", it's the most reasonable solution. However I would highly appreciate option 1 as an optional feature of the game too. An option in the difficulty game settings to make everyone vulnerable. The player would be warned that this option is likely to alter the game experience. I wanted it for Oblivion too when I heard the radiant ai has been tuned down for game breaking issues. I said "why not make it an option"? Maybe not in the first playthrough, but at some point I;m sure most of us would've been curious what would chaos look like in Cyrodiil :biggrin:. How cool it was to see the angry mob killing the corrupt guard in Cheydinhal, or M'Aiq bonking in the head everyoune that doesn't appreciate his jokes :biggrin:.

All characters should be killable

I would love option number 1 BUT only if the AI is superb

I choose number 2 because if the AI ain't all that, I would hate to chase key NPC's all over the place trying to protect them, so they are immortal to other stuff but not me, but as I said I would change to 1 if AI is good.

If the AI was good, and the game was non-linear enough that you could finish off quests in other ways other than having to speak with the person - then yes, I would agree with everyone being mortal. The problem is that I doubt the game will be really non-linear ala arcanum where you can finish quests in a multitude of ways.

As an Argonian, I wanted to murder for their crimes against my race. Unfortunately I discover they can't be killed :brokencomputer:

I was very upset at these immortal bastards who would never meet justice.

The second choice, because key NPCs might get killed by the enviroment, without the player doing anything. Tat would ruin the game for some, as they would not be able to join a guild at all if the recruiter ends up dead.

If the roads are safer than the surrounding forests in the next game, instead of the other way around like in the last, important NPCs shouldn't get killed while following normal routines. I picked the first option as "preferable", but if Bethesda can't keep the critical NPCs alive, then the second option would have to suffice.

NPCs only can be killed when the player is nearby anyway. An NPC on the other side of the map won't die randomly. I don't see this as a problem because of that.
Other than that, if an important NPC can manage to randomly get killed when the player is nearby, they should be immortal to falling damage and the game should be saved in a separate save right before they get into a fight, which can be reloaded and prevents the fight from happening.
All better than immortal NPCs in any way, I hate them!

I am torn on this issue. I want to be able to kill everyone but I do not want to be lets say in a cave and there is an important person at the end of the cave and right at the end you have to fight a buch of people to rescue this person and you accidentally kill the person. That would get annoying.

I would like to only have the player be able to kill them but not when there is mass combat going on around him. Basically, you can only kill the NPC is everything is calm to prevent accidentally killing him.

I like the idea where they fall unconscious and when you hit them again they die. That way if you really want to you can kill them but normal accidents would render them unonsious.