I agree with you on the whole "HEY PEOPLE IT'S JUST THE ENCLAVE HEAR DON"T TELL ANYONE"part with the eyebots but how would eden get some random goon to do that and as far as im aware enclave soldiers are under colonel autum orders which wasn't for the whole virus in the purifier fiasco. I think lol i think i'm having a mind sezuire.

That's speculation, re GECK, it was used to cleanse the radiation, not as steroids for the virus. As I say, it ultimately must be Eden's fault that Autumn had both the support he had, which if he had not had would have resulted in the series of events I described earlier; simply that, Eden wouldn't have had to back down to Autumn because Autumn had no support. Yet he did, and I think that it would be very prudent to blame to machine whom has been hiding his existance, ruling for 3 decades and punished a mere distrurbance by sending a commision officer (Lieutenant Williams) for "re-assignment"; he stopped a legitimate security concern and Eden said, "For disturbing me I'm going to send you to a dangerous topside position, that'll learn ya for being smart."

PRESIDENT Eden, ie, Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, he can order whomever he likes; if he had more respect, in the hypothetical event described, then there should be no problem.

This is true, however I would argue that the hasty-built appearence of AAFB defences appear to suggest that they were built ad-hoc for the purpose of being a temp-base following Raven Rock's disaster (we also don't know the time frame for the LW's attack on the base, it could have been months between when the purifer battle happened until he arrived there, which would have allowed Whitney the time for research).

Even then though, there's no reason to suggest that they were not under Eden's orders if they were there before-hand.




What im saying is, is that we don't see the entirety of Raven Rock, I can hardly believe that all those men who the LW shot and Eden's men mowed down were all the Enclave's forces at their capital. We have no real idea what was going on in other areas in the base. It's likely that Eden-loyalists were trying to apprehend or contain the Autumn rebel faction.

Also I do defend Eden's decision to administer justice in such a harsh manner, they disobeyed a direct order and instead chose to obey the commands of an unhinged Colonel, Eden warned them once, they didn't recieve a second one. Such disloyaty has no place in the Enclave.

Mr.House is a genius from before the great war. Has an awesome story and a half brother who's body we never find :shifty:

He has a vision for the future that does not include genocide.

Eden is a machine that, which throughout the game up until you find out the true nature of Eden "What a twist!" is just a voice over a radio. A macine that can't even think of an original plan. A plan that would only work for a small area and came down to "I hope the lonewanderer helps."

Sure Mr.House needs you but he also makes it clear he can get someone else but why when you are still alive.

But he is AI and who would an enclave soldier rather obey some desktop pc or a guy waving some hot plasma in his face.

Do we really need to get into how Eden could be president? Many threads on that already.

I think your mistaken here, the Enclave soldiers had no idea that Eden was a computer (but I also firmly believe they would have had no trouble following an AI's orders).

However, I believe the reason Eden did not initiate the sabotage of the purifier with anyone but the LW could be because of these reasons.



Also I believe that due to Autumn's fixation on using the purifer for a "lets save the wastelanders" plan, he would have been watching for such actions from the President and stopping them.

If he can get someone else why didn't he when say you betray him and help say the ncr his plan is far from fool proof.

AD-Hoc? I see nothing hasty about the defenses there, they have artilery positions set-up, forcefields established; regardless, we see Hellfire Armour, before the attack on AAFB. I hardly think that AAFB had the manufacturing abilities (which we did indeed discus yesterday) to produce power armour, yet we do know one place that did. What I am saying is that the people at AAFB and the field camps were completely exempt from the rebellion because they had no idea of it; therefore we cannot say who's side of the conflict they are on.



I can hardly believe that the majority of Autumn supporters just happened to consist of all of the military and scientific personnel in what just so happened to be the area which the LW had to go through. I never suggested that they were the entire population, that would be a tad ridiculous; what I mean is any Autumn supporters will have been in other areas surely, and when people are rushing around at the sound of gunfire how does Eden differentiate, didn't you argue that he needed the LW because he felt that he could no longer trust the men, lest they be supporters of Autumn?

The Enclave won't exist if it goes extinct, again, in three decades a Colonel could say a single word and a multitude of military and civilian personnel supported him; Eden did something to make them support Autumn, in-case you missed my last post, let's not forget his treatment of a certain Lieutenant, who was simply doing his job, who was then 'reassigned' by the President, which I am not suggesting means murder, but rather, being posted to a more dangerous position, as punishment for being so dilligent in the course of duty. Eden was mad with power and alienated all of the Enclave in his attempts to see that it was he who brought about America.

I actually love them both. They have such charismatic voices. They really put some effort into the voice acting for both of them. I also loved the FO3 Enclave Radio broadcast. In a wasteland-political sense I agree with Mr. House, and disagree with J.H. Eden, but I really like them both.

I keep hoping we'll see Eden again sometime. He is only software, after all; he could have used an Enclave robot to download his personality data and take is elsewhere. ED-E's big 'secret' up until now was pretty much a letdown anyway, we still don't know what data, aside from it being a unique eyebot, was of such great value to the Enclave that it should take a journey all the way to the West Coast.

ED-E's big secret doesn't exist, it was going to a base which had been cleared out decades before hand by the NCR; besides, it was carrying Poseidon Energy data and the machine itself.

May not be fool proof by any means but at least its not a half baked watered down plan of Fallout 2 that would only kill things in DC. It all came down to I hope the Lone wanderer helps. Why even ask you? All his troops, tech and weapons, he could have got anyone of his minions to do it. To me its foolhardy for Eden to go "here is the key to are whole plan, stranger. Now remember to put it in the purifier." Then we can kill him just after he give it to us :rolleyes:

If you read some of the previous posts old sport we do try to explain just that.

I am a veteran of many Enclave debates and the whole story of Fallout 3 makes little to no sense. Enclave could have taken DC with good old plasma. Really what are they going up against? Wastelanders with old hunting rifles and super mutants with old hunting rifles and the odd minigun. Why did they need the purifier? Could they have not just put their virus in the water? I mean people still drink it, radioactive or not they still drink it. All they had to do was find the "watering holes" and put in the virus.

Why do you think that the Enclave would be so effective at clearing every sewer, every ruined building and acre of desert in the former Capital city of America. Yeah it's stupid, so damn stupid I times I agree.

Thats true, but seeing as how they appeared to not have took part in the battle at the purifier, I'm going with the default idea that they stuck by the President.

But its likely that they really didn't know what was going on.



Eden only mows down the Autumnist forces in one area (the entrance area) the other deaths were caused along the way by the lone wanderer (so no blame on Eden for that). My theory is, is that Eden shuts down that door to prevent people just accidently walking in and getting caught in the cross-fire. Its my view that, while Autumnist forces must have been in other places, Eden only "clears the way" for the LW in one area, which is also where Autumn was taking off with his forces on Vertibirds (which helps to explain the high concentration of Autumnist forces in the area). While I suppose its true that he cannot 100% confirm that he is shooting at rebel troopers, I believe that since he is using sentry bots and laser turrets, and since its the policy of "step out of the way and let the LW pass" there was a greatly diminshed possiblity that innocent loyalists were killed. He wasn't just blasting away at random Enclave, he was blasting away at those who were attacking/opposing the passage of the LW (and therefore disobeying his orders).

I did argue the point about him not being able to trust all of them, but that's just a theory as to why he may have chosen to use the LW. I believe that most of the reasons for his choice are the capability of the LW and the fact that nothing would have changed even if the LW betrayed him.



We don't really know what happened to Lt. Williams, and there's no reason to suggest that he was "reassigned" to the front lines or anything like that, he may have gotten a slap on the wrist and nothing more. He broke protocol and contacted the President directly (surely just asking a superior officer or the like would have been sufficient).

I also don't believe that Eden would have necessarily had to "do something" wrong to make those soldiers turn against him. They were a minority of Enclave forces and its possible that Autumn kept a loyal group of "yes men" to do anything he said. It also would be natural for some men to look to Autumn (as their commander) and obey his every word (despite the craziness of his plan).

Apparently, there is also alot of loyalty to Eden. I don't know about you, but I never heard "For the Colonel!" as an Enclave battlecry, it was always "For the President!".

I think we have a misconception of the purifer. It wasn't as simple as just poisoning the water. Eden mentions that "the longer it runs, the cleaner the world becomes". Cleary it would have affected a larger area than we assume, and there's a variety of reasons for this.

Edit: My bad, double post.

It was only a small amount of enclave personal and the brotherhood wouldn't stand for it well they didn't stand for it neither did liberty prime try shoot him with you're fancy shmansy plasma.

The Enclave have the tech and man power to do take DC by force and yet they piss themselves at the thought of going up against wastelanders with old hunting rifles. Enclave were able to just walk into Vault 87 and yet they can't take back the capital building?

Still why can't they just put FEV into the local drinking water? Radioactive or not people can still drink it. Why did they need the purifier? It makes no sense.

Its something to do with the god-in a box-GECK. As I said, Eden mentions that the world becomes cleaner due to the purifer. So its not as simple as just poisoning a few people.

Likely, with the purifer, the virus is able to enter the atmosphere or the Atlantic ocean via the Potomac, which could cause widespead damage.

Well the brotherhood of steel wouldn't exactly just invite them in to kill them all and the whole of D.C.

It is as easy as poisoning a few people. There are only a "few people" in DC. As for the other part I did not get that at all from Edens plan.

Enclave have Vertibirds. Fly over Magaton and shoot the damn A-Bomb. Drop a dozen troop at Rivet City and take it.

Enclave in Fallout 3 were pathetic and weak. New Vegas talks about the Renmants moving East, cutting swaths through Legin ranks. A group of old people can do that and yet hundreds of men can't even take back the capital building?



Brotherhood have to drink as well. They will die just like the rest. All the Enclave had to do was once again Fly over their bass and bomb the crap out of it. Death from above!

He does however, say that his plan will make the world cleaner, which suggests that the plan is for much more than just the general DC area. I have no reason to doubt him either.

Also the end slides say that the Enclave "wins" when the virus is implanted.



They never really tried.

About a lot of individual people has it been said that the world is better without (the same as saying the world is cleaner without them). The suggestion isn't really there without you considering it as such, so it's not really there. Not trying to argue about this, though, just a point of a view.