No, what I mean is that Eden let's him go through with it because Autumn may rebel if he didn't back down, he agrees to get rid of Autumn and buy time for his own goals; I believe this was something like your arguement a long time ago when I said that Eden risked lives because he caved and allowed Autumn to go. If Eden hadn't pissed people off in some way then Eden would have been able to tell Autumn where to go and a more practical plan could be devised.
I would say then that the soldiers who allowed Autumn to prevent the intiation of a plan that meant the Enclave's victory, were in the wrong. Eden also may not have had to "piss anyone off" really at all, as we have seen, even Autumn believed that he was still loyal to Eden. The soldiers who countermanded the President's order may not have also truly understood what they were doing (like Autumn) I see no reason to believe that if Autumn felt he was still being a loyal soldier of Eden, that his soldiers didn't as well.
I don't know where you would get that figure from. We have no indication as too the Enclave's numbers, it's like saying that you think Megaton has a population of 15 or whatever because that's all the engine can support; in any event I would think that a highly conservative estimate.
I'm just guessing what I think the numbers of Autumnists were (taking into consideration the Enclave outposts throughout the CW, the soldiers who were stationed/sent to AAFB and the number of men that must have been in Raven Rock
and those that Autumn actually took.
I in no way pretend to assume that my estimate is 100% correct, but considering that we don't know the status of the Enclave soldiers who didn't go with Autumn, thats how I view the numbers of the Autumnists.
Yes that's exactly what I mean. It was in response to your idea about Autumn having a group of dedicated followers, Eden can see and hear everything inside the complex, something which even Williams was aware of when he contacted him. He would know exactly who was on Autumn's side and would have probably posted them to the field outposts and out of the way like Autumn. My pinultimate point is that I believe Eden used the LW because he knew a net was tightening around him; Autumn had majority support and may dispose of him soon, the LW was brought in, quite possibly the only person in RR whom he could trust. He would muster all of his charisma and will the LW into completing his Project, so that at least he could die knowing that he had won and that his glorious capital was pure; if anyone got in the way, then so be it.
Its possible that he
did know who was on Autumn's side, and during the "purge" of Raven Rock, he took care of those disloyal elements (perhaps he made it so that he placed the majority of Autumnist supporters in Raven Rock in a specfic area, thats not out of the question).
I don't see how Eden would have needed to feel afraid of Autumn displacing him. Why does Lt. Williams not contact Autumn or talk with a superior close to Autumn? He obviously felt that the President superceded Autumn's authority. I doubt Autumn could have just said one day said "okay sorry guys no more President", not only that, but it becomes apparent at the end that Autumn had no desire to usurp Eden, in fact, he fervetly believed in Eden's right to rule.
Somehow I blame Bethesda's writing on making this a difficult topic to debate. :dry:
You said it yourself, most of the male population are in the military (though there are female officers), I would think that Eden would manipulate and encourage a predominatly military culture, it invalidates anyone who could potentionally rival his Presidency before he has completed the work of his idol Richardson.
I think that necessity required a predominently military culture, there's simply not enough Enclave now (in my view) to have a government other than a quasi-dictatorship. You can make the argument that Eden and Eden alone was responsible for there not being any other government officials but him, but I don't really see any hard evidence for that (and I would strongly disagree
, heck we don't even know
for sure if Eden didn't have a cabinent or Vice-President, since we saw so little of Raven Rock, maybe they're the "Enclave high command" that is mentioned in Broken Steel).
I'm going to retire for the night now, feel free to post though and I'll check it in the morning.
Yeah I am too. Good debate though.