[RELZ] Julan, Ashlander Companion [No.14] : III - Morrowind

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:43 pm

Thanks for the suggestions! They are Duly Noted. I adore Caius, but sadly he returns to the Imperial City not long after that point in the mod. I'll think about it though - I love writing for him. I actually once wrote a scene between him and Julan (and Constance!) as part of someone else's fanfic, and it was hugely enjoyable to do!

I remember that! Unfortunately, I think it was lost when she reset the fic. Upon trying to find it for my feedback, it seems the same fate has befallen my 'Entering Skaal Village with a Noble Savage' story on one of the older Julan threads. I was a fool for not backing that one up.

-DL :chaos:

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:17 am

I remember that! Unfortunately, I think it was lost when she reset the fic. Upon trying to find it for my feedback, it seems the same fate has befallen my 'Entering Skaal Village with a Noble Savage' story on one of the older Julan threads. I was a fool for not backing that one up.

-DL :chaos:

Aww. I have text backups of the scenes I wrote for Lady M, but I'm sorry to hear of the fate of your great work!

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:49 am

That one's just begging out for the caption, "He's right behind me, isn't he."

@ Rivendell - Julan when he's drunk really is hysterical. A friend of mine started using the mod based entirely on a story I told her once about Julan getting drunk: he started rambling on about finding an Ordinator and putting his helmet on backwards--when we were in Suran. Then the next morning he came back with a wicked hangover...and a lady's skirt. :laugh:

What did you do? Did you let him wander around when he was drunk? Hmmm... I'll have to remember that.

@Kateri: More of Julan would be wonderful. I'm starting a brand new play through with him now. Julan rocks.

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:01 pm

And there was me thinking I already included too many screaming arguments!

(I kid of course, there is no such thing as too many.)

I do like to include the possibility for the player to challenge Julan on his biases, hypocrisies and random idiocies (see: The "Imperials" Conversation) but it helps to know what people want to yell at him about. So: what do you want to argue about?

Hmmmm. Monster that I am, most of the time when I want to role-play yell at Julan, it is something game mechanics related and truly beyond his control - like "Care to explain why you used all of those enchanted bolts to NOT kill a bee?" or "Will you PLEASE stay behind me when I'm trying to soultrap a Dagoth?" or "Lava is not for swimming in, Julan, no matter how inviting it may appear." or "Sweet buttery golden Vivec on a cracker, you do know you can move away from Shani after we teleport, don't you? I mean, it's not like you know where she's been! Or do you...????" Generic taunting works, I guess, but it makes me feels awful since he doesn't fight back. :cry:

(Which reminds me of the time Julan got me so angry I took away everything I'd given him - armor, weapons, clothes, outfitted him in his Day 1 gear, and left him in his ~~man cave~~ yurt for a couple of days. After I cooled off, my character went to pick him up again, but he attacked her on sight! I opened up my inventory to use his ring to stop combat... and no ring. Good thing I don't play dead-is-dead... :dead: )

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:51 am

I'll get back to the thread later with my suggestions.

But first thing's first: Teach him CPR. Like right now. My heart stopped beating when i read this.

Oh shoot. You just haaaaaad to remind me: Story time!

:rofl:

I SOOOO wish I could be that mean to Julan! The closest I've ever managed was http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/cne/cne_viewgallery.php?cid=469&pid=909.

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:57 pm

Hmmmm. Monster that I am, most of the time when I want to role-play yell at Julan, it is something game mechanics related and truly beyond his control - like "Care to explain why you used all of those enchanted bolts to NOT kill a bee?" or "Will you PLEASE stay behind me when I'm trying to soultrap a Dagoth?" or "Lava is not for swimming in, Julan, no matter how inviting it may appear." or "Sweet buttery golden Vivec on a cracker, you do know you can move away from Shani after we teleport, don't you? I mean, it's not like you know where she's been! Or do you...????" Generic taunting works, I guess, but it makes me feels awful since he doesn't fight back. :cry:

(Which reminds me of the time Julan got me so angry I took away everything I'd given him - armor, weapons, clothes, outfitted him in his Day 1 gear, and left him in his ~~man cave~~ yurt for a couple of days. After I cooled off, my character went to pick him up again, but he attacked her on sight! I opened up my inventory to use his ring to stop combat... and no ring. Good thing I don't play dead-is-dead... :dead: )

I'd love to know what he did to make you so mad. (Dunno why he attacked, though! :blink: ) The maddest he ever got me was when we trekked all the way across Molag Amur for hours, only to find, when we got there, that he had drunk all the sujamma we were taking to the mine for the Fighters' Guild. I never even knew the AI drank sujamma on its own!

This is all fodder for adding the "-- slap Julan upside the head" option that I have been considering since well before v.1 was released. But y'know... condoning interpersonal violence!

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:40 am

I'd love to know what he did to make you so mad. (Dunno why he attacked, though! :blink: ) The maddest he ever got me was when we trekked all the way across Molag Amur for hours, only to find, when we got there, that he had drunk all the sujamma we were taking to the mine for the Fighters' Guild. I never even knew the AI drank sujamma on its own!

He drank ALL of it? How long did it take to sober him up? :foodndrink:

What did Julan do?

Short Version: In his defense, it was totally not his fault... he was the unwitting victim of a gizmoid confluence of random dialog, role play, and the wrath of She Who Controls the Mouse.

Exceedingly long, excessively boring version:

Spoiler

My character is Imperial & Hlaalu, with self esteem and abuse issues; she's also stupid enough to be romantically involved with Julan, so she's almost too easy a target for him.

They (Bohemia, Julan and Constance) had been running around, hither and yon - Balmora, Wolverine Hall, Ebonheart - and since I've developed a really bad habit of entering into dialog with Julan pretty much every time we change locations (because you never know what he'll say), we'd gotten the full range of insults, complaints, whining and snide comments. PC nerves are frayed, PC feelings are hurt... "No problem," thinks theskymoves. "I'll have Julan and Bohemia spend some quality time together... that always fixes things!" Nope... Julan utters the dread post-coital "S"-word for the first time. Already insecure and convinced she is merely an interesting lay-by on the Road Back to Shani, Bohemia weeps imaginary tears :cry:

and starts looking in her inventory for something self destructive... I wag my finger at Julan, and tell him "Be NICE to her, you idiot! She still hasn't gotten over that awful note you left her when you ran away..." :nono: Julan gives ME the stink eye and grumbles. Back to Main Questing... and oh noes, it's the Telvanni Bride... Care to speculate on how THAT went? :swear: theskymoves decides a time-out is in order: "Okay, that's IT! You think she's a b!tch? I'll show you b!tch, buddy!" :slap: Dump Julan at Mashti's place. Dump Constance in Balmora. Bohemia spends three days (real time)/almost a month (game time) reading in-game books, trying on clothes, changing her hair, brewing potions, and blaming herself, because she wubs him and of course everything is her fault. I wash my hands of it. They probably deserve one another, and really, who am I to interfere in the imaginary relationship of these demented and damaged pixel people? Teleport giddy Bohemia :wub: to Grazelands, walk her into yurt-sty, carnage ensues. :gun: theskymoves smirks, and says "Told you so!"

We remembered the ring when we went back the second time.

His disposition was 0. Zero! Thank gods for kwama eggs... :burp:

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:46 pm

He drank ALL of it? How long did it take to sober him up? :foodndrink:

What did Julan do?

Short Version: In his defense, it was totally not his fault... he was the unwitting victim of a gizmoid confluence of random dialog, role play, and the wrath of She Who Controls the Mouse.

Exceedingly long, excessively boring version:

Spoiler

My character is Imperial & Hlaalu, with self esteem and abuse issues; she's also stupid enough to be romantically involved with Julan, so she's almost too easy a target for him.

They (Bohemia, Julan and Constance) had been running around, hither and yon - Balmora, Wolverine Hall, Ebonheart - and since I've developed a really bad habit of entering into dialog with Julan pretty much every time we change locations (because you never know what he'll say), we'd gotten the full range of insults, complaints, whining and snide comments. PC nerves are frayed, PC feelings are hurt... "No problem," thinks theskymoves. "I'll have Julan and Bohemia spend some quality time together... that always fixes things!" Nope... Julan utters the dread post-coital "S"-word for the first time. Already insecure and convinced she is merely an interesting lay-by on the Road Back to Shani, Bohemia weeps imaginary tears :cry:

and starts looking in her inventory for something self destructive... I wag my finger at Julan, and tell him "Be NICE to her, you idiot! She still hasn't gotten over that awful note you left her when you ran away..." :nono: Julan gives ME the stink eye and grumbles. Back to Main Questing... and oh noes, it's the Telvanni Bride... Care to speculate on how THAT went? :swear: theskymoves decides a time-out is in order: "Okay, that's IT! You think she's a b!tch? I'll show you b!tch, buddy!" :slap: Dump Julan at Mashti's place. Dump Constance in Balmora. Bohemia spends three days (real time)/almost a month (game time) reading in-game books, trying on clothes, changing her hair, brewing potions, and blaming herself, because she wubs him and of course everything is her fault. I wash my hands of it. They probably deserve one another, and really, who am I to interfere in the imaginary relationship of these demented and damaged pixel people? Teleport giddy Bohemia :wub: to Grazelands, walk her into yurt-sty, carnage ensues. :gun: theskymoves smirks, and says "Told you so!"

We remembered the ring when we went back the second time.

His disposition was 0. Zero! Thank gods for kwama eggs... :burp:

OMG, sounds like he deserved ev erything he got, then! :toughninja: I know I deliberately added negative stuff to the romance as well as positive, because I am bloody-minded and dislike saccherine overloads, but that is quite the unfortunate build-up of events! I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have taken him back after that!

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:06 pm

Alright folks, I got some good news and some bad news.

The good news: I got Julan to stop staring at Shani all the time. The bad news: Welll uhhmmmmm... that's because he has a new target.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot101.jpg

Deadra Lord: Sure, why not?

Julan: No, no, no no. Absolutely not! That does it, I'm going on strike! I demand higher wages!

Deadra Lord: But I don't pay you anything...

Faeryn Sethandas: Submit to the three, the Spirits, and Thy lords.

Julan: Oh my ancestors, we haven't even left the building yet http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot100.jpg Listen you, quit preaching, http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot99.jpg

Faeryn Sethandas: I humbly think you are in error, Velothi. Perhaps it is you who should stop looking up to me.

Later...

Deadra Lord: Well what do you think of him Shani?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot113.jpg

Julan: *mumbling* 'gunna kill him... I swear this upon my ancestors...

Deadra Lord: Ok, bad news forum readers. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot114.jpg

A bit Later...

Deadra Lord: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot116.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/Daedra_Lord/MGEScreenshot117.jpg

As for the worst part of this all: Save for the decision to recruit Sethandas, I seriously did not rig or instigate any of these scenes together this time. *cue Twilight-Zone music*

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also came across a bug with Shani that I don't think I've heard here. Her 'sheathe your weapon' option isn't working for me. It just reroutes to her asking me how she should fight again. Also, I noticed that most of the time when Julan's infamous walking-away-after-teleporting bug happens, Shani does it to if she was tagging along. Not always, but usually. Don't know if that information helps or not.

-DL :chaos:

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:19 am

An ORDINATOR companion?! That's just mean!

I also came across a bug with Shani that I don't think I've heard here. Her 'sheathe your weapon' option isn't working for me. It just reroutes to her asking me how she should fight again. Also, I noticed that most of the time when Julan's infamous walking-away-after-teleporting bug happens, Shani does it to if she was tagging along. Not always, but usually. Don't know if that information helps or not.

-DL :chaos:

*checks CS* Whoa, there's no dialogue entry where there should be one! How come you are the first person to report this in the years since the release! :blink: Thanks!

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:25 am

Hahhah, I just pop in for a quick look at the Julan thread and I find all these awesome stories about the PC and his adventures. Really, he must really be a fantastic companion mod to have this level of roleplaying possible. I can't play without him, myself.

Kateri, since you might be adding on to dialogue for Bloodmoon, do you think you could add something for the werewolf players out there (but perhaps not integrated with the Bloodmoon questline)? I think that it has a great potential for some good, juicy drama.

Perhaps Julan could confront the player about why they "sneak out" every night (or, depending on mods, every few weeks). Him and the character could get into an argument, either where the character tells the truth and deals with the consequences, or where the character doesn't tell him a thing and Julan "follows" them the next time they sneak out and finds out himself. Either way, I think that having a werewolf character has a great possibility to display and reaffirm the trust (or lack thereof) between Julan and the character (more character development! cheer!). It's just a suggestion, but it would be nice to have a few lines of dialogue there.

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:01 am

Never mind.

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:29 pm

As previously stated by many, it's really hard to come up with ideas for improving a mod of this quality. But I've managed to think of some things that might prove advantageous to a 2.0 .

My first and foremost idea is to reduce or realign Julan's skills. The first memory I have about the mod (aside from pure awesome of course) was how hard it was for my characters to train Julan. (Especially warrior characters) There were also some small this-that's that didn't make sense to me like an Alteration skill of 5. (Seeing as how he can levitate and water walk just as well as any player anytime.) The timing of this plays in well because we'll all need to create new characters anyhow which will mean we are weaker then Julan at first, have not developed our own skills that much, and will not have alot of spare money to pay trainers for him instead.

As already suggested, some more backstory/conversations/topics/Shani/quest dialogue and whatnot (also known as more of the same we all love).

Bloodmoon,Tribunal, Shani spoilers ahead.

Spoiler

Tribunal and Bloodmoon's finales will easily be the hardest parts to figure out something for since they're practically designed to keep companions out

. Vanilla Voice-overs for Hircine, Azura, and Almalexia would make adding on dialogue for them to acknowledge Julan difficult or just plain impossible, and incompatible with player-made ones.

One idea for Tribunal's ending came to my mind the other day but it's leaning a little high on the dramatic side, PM me if you're interested in hearing it. Only part I'll say in public is I recommend not making him go to Clockwork City. For Bloodmoon, maybe Hircine could kidnap him too and leave him in the same Glacier room as the player, but not acknowledge him. (And then Julan could get all pissed at him for that in a 'what I'm not good enough for you?' fashion. :lol:

) But there's still flaws with that idea too. Can't recall for sure if there was that option already, but an option for male characters to get Shani as a companion without romancing would be nice too. (My sketchy memory tells me that declining the date and talking to her later will always bring the topic of reconsidering up.)

More ideas in the next day or so to come probably.

-DL :chaos:

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:44 pm

I'm so excited, Kateri! You are so freaking awesome for working on this after so long!

Some ideas for questions:
* Are there any interesting folk tales that your tribe has? (Like creation of Morrowind, why the Dunmer are super superior to everyone, why guar are brown etc.)
* Do you want kids? (Could be interesting on a romance track. Like he goes "do YOU want kids" and then she goes uh, I'm busy adventuring, dude. At least that's what all my characters would say.)
* What does Azura/Daedra worship mean to you? Do you really believe or is it just something you go along with to keep your mother happy?

Thoughts for Julan tech support in game:
Perhaps a character to talk to, that could implement the commands? Oooh! Or like, I saw a mod that did something kind of different but it gave me the idea: implement the commands through a dwemer puzzle box or something like that in your inventory, so that the person playing doesn't type in the commands but they're done through a item. Like "Julan, stop fighting, for serious, I MEAN IT, YOU'RE HITTING ME." Sort of an improved telepathy ring.

Speaking of the telepathy ring, is there any way you could change it so that the option to speak to Julan (yes) is first and (no) is second? Because that's severely annoying.

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:47 am

I know I deliberately added negative stuff to the romance as well as positive, because I am bloody-minded and dislike saccherine overloads

(tsm tries to imagine saccharine, perfect-boyfriend Julan... Nope. Can't do it... Don't want to do it... :nope:)

When I ~~started playing with Julan :facepalm:~~ added Julan to my game, I had absolutely no intention of going down the romance path... however, the very fact that along with his (many) good qualities Julan is difficult and self-absorbed, and, frankly, a real jerk a lot of the time is what made me reconsider... because it's almost impossible to look away from an impending trainwreck, after all! :blink: Heathcliff is always more interesting and funs than Mr. Perfect (or what's-his-face Linton, as the case may be...), and Julan is a "Heathcliff" if I ever saw one.

I've been going through all the notes (LOTS!) I made during my recent (and first) game with Julan, but to spare y'all most of my ramblings, I'll just add my concurrence with this

As previously stated by many, it's really hard to come up with ideas for improving a mod of this quality.

and this:

As already suggested, some more backstory/conversations/topics/Shani/quest dialogue and whatnot (also known as more of the same we all love).

along with the hope that all of the further insight into Julan's backstory won't be dependent on interacting with Shani...

Ummm, what else.... I did stumble on what I think is one tiny bug, when I was picking the mod apart in the Construction Set, trying to grok how it all fits together:

Spoiler

during the conversation on Red Mtn. just prior to Dagoth Ur, Julan's dialog is "I want to help my best friend make history!", no matter what his relationship with the PC... I made a wee patch that swaps the order of the two dialog versions, in case I ever make another character masochistic enough to go through the romance. When I play tested it with patch, I did successfully get the "I want to help the love of my life make history!" response.

Screenshot mayhem!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/chyral/Morrowind%20screenshots/spriggan_dance.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/chyral/Morrowind%20screenshots/sparkly.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/chyral/Morrowind%20screenshots/the_horror.jpg

A really old one: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/chyral/Morrowind%20screenshots/julan_ord_kill.jpg

Edited to add: One subject I would like to "talk" to Julan about is his educational background, and an elaboration of his thoughts regarding Ashlander literacy/the lack thereof.

Edited again because punctuation and spelling are important!

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:15 pm

I'd like to make a small suggestion, if I may: Move Adibael (the NPC in Ald-Ruhn who sends you off to Ghostgate to check up on Julan) to somewhere not so out of the way for a new character.

The South Wall Corner Club in Balmora, perhaps?

I say this because Ald-Ruhn is an out of the way area for a new character to go to. Since the whole purpose of the NPC is to give the PC an in-game reason to go to an out of the way area (Ghostgate) it makes more

sense to me that he be placed somewhere more likely to be in the path of the PC. As it is, I always end up going straight to Ghostgate to collect Julan anyway, rendering the character moot.

Please consider it.

Edit: I hesitate to suggest this, but... Maybe you could have Caius Cosades send the PC off to check out the whole Julan thing? Caius does suggest that the PC establish a cover identity as a freelance adventurer. Perhaps a little tidbit could be added to the effect of "You could join the Fighters or Mages guild, or maybe you could go check out Ghostgate down the Foyada, that's all the rage with the adventurer types these days. I'll mark it on your map."

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:28 pm

Thanks for the suggestions all, keep 'em coming!

I've added a way for male characters to be just-friends with Shani. Having her along won't be required for hearing ALL the dialogue about her/Julan's past, as Julan will volunteer some things on his own, but there are other things you can only hear about from her. Also, if she's around, she may stick her oar in about Julan's version of events, and she often has a more clear-sighted memory of things than he does.

Fixed that dialogue-order bug, theskymoves, thanks. How'd I miss that in testing?

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:24 am

- some kind of (immersive) ingame hints for parts people get stuck on. I'm considering including ingame tech help, e.g. console commands in a book, but it feels too immersion-breaking to me. Thoughts?

Kateri,

I've been thinking about this and have a quick question: would this be for things like "Why is Julan walking into the wall?" Or would it be for the "Why doesn't Julan have Companion Share right out of the Box/I can't progess in the Main Quest because I need to do something with Julan and I'll be danged if I can figure out WTF it is!" kinds of stuckage?

Depending on which it is (and whether it is even still an open issue), I may have some thoughts.

Thanks~
tsm

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:43 pm

Kateri,

I've been thinking about this and have a quick question: would this be for things like "Why is Julan walking into the wall?" Or would it be for the "Why doesn't Julan have Companion Share right out of the Box/I can't progess in the Main Quest because I need to do something with Julan and I'll be danged if I can figure out WTF it is!" kinds of stuckage?

Depending on which it is (and whether it is even still an open issue), I may have some thoughts.

Thanks~
tsm

I'm considering various things, if you have thoughts on either option, please share 'em!

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:43 pm

I'm considering various things, if you have thoughts on either option, please share 'em!

Will do. Might be early next week before I can do it, though... I'll be out of town 'til then and probably won't be on the intertubes. (I think Motel 6 charges by the nanosecond for access! )

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:23 am

My masochistic male toon wants more Shani dates. The first one was just so funny. My female toon wants Julan just the way he is.

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:02 pm

- extra conversations at intervals about various random things I think it'd be fun to write. This may include an "ask Julan/Shani a random question" option, in which case, if you have suggestions of things you think the PC should be able to ask, PLEASE POST 'EM!

Maybe as play on this suggestion, maybe Julan asks YOU random questions?

Where were you born?
Any relatives (not mom or dad)?
What do you think of Vvardenfell/Morrowind?
Why did you join [faction]?
What drinks do you like?
Do you think this cuirass makes me look fat?
Tonight's Dinner: Guar Steaks. Y/N?

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:38 pm

Maybe as play on this suggestion, maybe Julan asks YOU random questions?

Where were you born?
Any relatives (not mom or dad)?
What do you think of Vvardenfell/Morrowind?
Why did you join [faction]?
What drinks do you like?
Do you think this cuirass makes me look fat?
Tonight's Dinner: Guar Steaks. Y/N?

This is something I'm doing, but I have to be careful about the type of question. With questions like "where were you born?", there's no way I can predict all the different answers a player might want their character to say, so I need a question with a certain amount of limitation to the possible responses. At the same time, though, I want the player to feel like they are getting to roleplay their character's answer in a fun way, so I don't want JUST "yes/no" answers, or a copout like "[You explain yourself]".

Shani is much easier to write for this than Julan, as she is more prone to asking suitable, fairly simple questions. Like "Who would win in a fight, Almalexia or a giant scrib?".

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:31 am

I like that this mod is still going strong after all this time. I still remember the first versions you posted on Emma's forums, in what was it? 2008 or 2009?

Keep up the good work

» Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:39 pm

I like that this mod is still going strong after all this time. I still remember the first versions you posted on Emma's forums, in what was it? 2008 or 2009?

Keep up the good work

I think it was more like early 2006! I've not worked on Julan in any real capacity since 2007, before my twins were born. I'm having to relearn all my scripting!