I already know the Dwemer took part. People don't need to keep repeating it like I don't know this. I mentioned the Dunmer to imply it was Nerevar who was responsible for the victory. In fact, I should change that, because they were still Chimer back then.

The Dunmer were rebelling against the Nords. Remember that the First Nordic Empire ruled over Morrowind, yes?

The problem here is that you think Jurgen 'downplayed' the thu'um. He didn't. He merely changed it's focus. Many people challenged him on his views and they all fell before superior voice.

Sore loser, neutered the Nords out of personal pride and religious delusions. He should have stayed on a mountaintop and worshipped Kynareth if he wanted, and left the others alone.

That's all it takes in my book, right there.

A focus that lead it from being used as much. I consider that to be downplayed, yes because it wasn't used for outward war purposes anymore. I don't even think times of "true need" ever occurred. Arngeir if it were up to him wouldn't even want you to use the voice against alduin if he had a say in it.

I dont see what them rebelling against the nord shows btw.

You also have to blame the nords, a tongue could've taken a middle ground instead they all either agreed with Jurgen or ended up agreeing because he beat a bunch of other tongues.

He could have stayed on his mountain, no one was hindering him. You don't throw down your swords because you lost one battle. That's cowardly right there.

Why would he worship Kynareth? The Nordic is Kyne.

Oh, don't worry. I'm only playing devils advocate here. I utterly despise the Greybeards.

Except that he fought seventeen other tongues before even establishing High Hrothgar.

You cant blame them for not being as powerful as he was. That doesn't even make sense. He's the one responsible for making the nords weaker. You likely agree with it because you like nords the least, and favor dunmer.

Ah, I see.

Because a hippie nature goddess seems more like his preferred version.

and the other tongues could've stayed silent and not challenged him to fight in protest or join him. He didn't force them by going "JOIN ME OR I'LL SHOUT YOU TO DEATH"

failed too much? the voice was a huge benefit to the nords, and it hardly failed them a lot,

look at the nords now, they're a shadow of their former selves, they've managed to recede in power over time, because Jurgen- in my opinion- condemned the use of it in warfare, i like the Greybeards, but they could have sorted a lot of Skyrims troubles (or at least helped), if they weren't sat on the freaking mountain

I do, however, assume that this is intended as a continuation of the Jurgen/Sovngarde dilemma, which he certainly qualifies for useless Greybeards aside.

He meditated for seven years before that. It was only when he began counseling cowardice to the others that the trouble began. But it's true, the other tongues were stupid for following his crackpot notions.

And in this case, it's only right that they lost their power to Tiber Septim, whose response to the Tribunal's power was not to sit down, stick his thumb in his mouth and cry about it.

Seems that way. I don't know what to think of this guy. If it were me, I would have "chosen silence" and made my voice stronger, then go back after teaching this way and fight some more. It seems like the reason his voice got stronger was because of his new form of meditation and focus, not because the gods favored him.

Might I ask why, out of curiosity?

Because the Greybeards possess the kind of power that the peoples of Tamriel could have used over the years. It's not so much that they are pacifist by nature, but rather are so pacifist and disconnected from the realities of the world that they won't even help out in times of great need.

Well we have to look at it like this, he went to the top of snow throat and used the voice to meditate meaning a avatar of Kyne could have possible visited him and taught him that the reason the Thu'um failed them was because of the Nords using the voice for their own glory instead of the glory of the gods like the dragons before.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Jurgen_Windcaller

Snow throat is a very sacred place for Kyne worship and using the voice to summon Kyne would most likely cause an avatar to appear.

Understandable enough.

That much at the very least Delphine got right. Even though I think she just wanted to control us for her purposes.

Kyne was defrocked by the Nords, not the other way around. That's how belief works in Tamriel. They made her a hippie goddess and she became one.

I don't think that's entirely the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Kyne. Though I do understand where you are coming from.

Edit: Probably should have mentioned that Kyne and Kynareth share the same sphere.

He's kinda http://images.uesp.net/d/d8/SR-npc-Jurgen_Windcaller.jpg. At least for a dead guy wearing a dress.

Even so, to outright not use it in warfare what so ever, not even for defensive purposes, seems extreme.

Also, as far as im concerned, the only things dragons use the thu'um for is for their own selfish, dominating purposes (excluding Paarth, at least now anyway), they were pretty cruel back in the dragon wars

They mainly use the Thu'um for verbal debates.

so 17 men turned her into a hippie? Yea no, it takes a lot more then that. Also going by varieties of faith Kyne is still worshiped as a warrior god during the third era since the book was written some time around Morrowind.