He misconstrued the true use of the Thu'um just because his race lost the battle at Red Mountain. What a shame.....

What do you guys think of this Nord Tongue turned pacifist?

Can you really blame the guy for questioning the use of the thu'um after what has been your greatest weapon gets completely nullified and you go on to get your [censored] handed to you?

Your quote in my sig.

He's not worth thinking about. He got cocky, he got burned, and came to an erroneous conclusion.

Edit: I have to agree with Shadow below - the title doesn't really fit the subject matter.

Kyne is the Shield-Maiden of Shor. That should give you a big clue, as to why she wanted the Nords and Mortals in general, to have the ability to shout like Dragons do.

I think the title should be changed.

Also, someone in that last thread, 2nd to last post said Jurgen was Dragonborn. I searched the uesp and "other" sites and came up with nothing.

I didn't say he was right to found the Greybeards. Only that his questioning the use of the thu'um was understandable, given the circumstances.

The Nords had never met a foe they couldn't conquer with the thu'um before that point.

Except that Jurgen Windcaller wasn't Dragonborn. There's no evidence to support it.

Yes I agree. Hind sight, should not of use that word. I think Milk-Drinker would've been a better term. Summer couold change it to Milk-Drinker?

He was not a Dragonborn.

I didn't believe it either.

I agree, but they were fighting the Dunmer and the Dwemer.

Who came up with that theory anyway?

Treng. Because you got a Dragon soul as a reward for taking his horn back to Ustengraav(sp?).

Here, second to last post of the last page.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1459821-jurgen-windcaller-and-sovngarde/page-7#entry22665579

Problem with the Thu'um is it's a barbaric form of voice magic to the point where masters of the thu'um can't even control it the thu'um takes their voice and they need to be gagged, the redguards and Tsaesci turned their voice magic into something that can be controlled and not cause them to end up as people who can never speak without tearing someone apart.

A true nord picks himself up after a defeat and keeps fighting. He got a hissy fit and used his power to turn Kyne, the warrior goddess's gift to a semi pacifist worshiping tool. The dude shouldn't be revered, they should hate him.

The concept of "true nordism" is all a matter of perspective.

Exactly.

I think most will agree what Jurgen did isn't an example of one who acts like a "true" nord.

Also going to point this out the nords use to have this policy where right = might iirc so by defeating the tongues who protested against the way of the voice Jurgen won the right to set up the way of the voice and the right to turn it from barbaric weapon to form of meditation.

He didn't throw a hissy fit. The Nords got soundly beaten and he contemplated the defeat and what led to it. That the Dunmer had nullified up and until that point, the greatest weapon the Nords ever possessed.

It's the equivalent of fighting an enemy, attempting to nuke them and then finding out your nuke is utterly useless.

He also fought for what he believed in. That's a true Nord right there.

Does this mean Paarth is a fool also? After all, dominating, enslaving and killing is 'true dragonism', if you want to put it like that.

Dunmer AND Dwemer, and he fought to cover his own face from embarrassment. If thats what a true nord does, then yea, he sure is.

That is just how I see it. You got beat in a war that you were ganged in, and your answer to that is to downplay the strongest weapon in your arsenal?

From a dragon's perspective I would say so, yes.

It was Nerevar who nullified the Thu'um, dwemer didn't do all the work.

They still helped and played a role. Either way, I don't get the logic of downplaying your strongest weapon after one defeat.

Could be the nords had all of their best tongues working on the chimer and dwemer, meaning their best weapon failed and they relied on a weapon that failed too much.