Just to be clear: are Redguards not actually human?

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:58 pm

Fascinating.
So it seems the Ehlnofey had already subgradiated into the Nords by the time of the move to Atmora.

But now I have the question of why they left in the first place.
What was it about Atmora that drew them there?
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:11 pm

Fascinating.
So it seems the Ehlnofey had already subgradiated into the Nords by the time of the move to Atmora.

But now I have the question of why they left in the first place.
What was it about Atmora that drew them there?

The war with the elves in the Dawn Era. I think (that is, my theory) they either retreated when Shor fell or were trapped there when the land was sundered.
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Robert Devlin
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:56 pm

The war with the elves in the Dawn Era. I think they either retreated when Shor fell or were trapped there when the land was sundered.
Returning as no different from when they left, but the elves became Falmer? What accounts for the stasis in the Nords?
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Returning as no different from when they left, but the elves became Falmer? What accounts for the stasis in the Nords?

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nords-lack-creation-myth

To them, there's not really a point in differing between their "giant" ancestors and them.

And in the Cyrodiilc pantheon, mortals were created by the gods. They didn't descend from them.
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April D. F
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:02 pm

But the Anuad clearly states that some Ehlnofey arrived scattered.
There was only one continent at the time, covering the globe. It wasn't until the Ehlnofey war (which started when the Wandering Ehlnofey found Old Ehlnofey, who wouldn't let them in) that land dropped into the sea to create the Tamriel/Atmora/Yokuda separation.
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Pete Schmitzer
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:47 pm

EDIT : Nevermind, forgot to refresh a thread and its been long answered properly and by folks with better knowledge
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Stat Wrecker
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:52 pm

There was only one continent at the time, covering the globe. It wasn't until the Ehlnofey war (which started when the Wandering Ehlnofey found Old Ehlnofey, who wouldn't let them in) that land dropped into the sea to create the Tamriel/Atmora/Yokuda separation.
So how is that reconcilable with the Nu-Mantia intercept that states that there was never such a place as Old Ehlnofey. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that statement should be taken completely at its word.

It would be impossible for there to be no original home for the Old Ehlnofey, even if that home was just the place they all first materialized. If the Old Ehlnofey never had a home, than logically they never would have existed.

Did the Ehlnofey suffer some sort of racial amnesia, causing them to forget their first years on Nirn, I wonder?
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Sian Ennis
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:57 pm

The Dawn was a very screwy time.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:02 pm

The Redguards are human. They don't have scales, fur, pointed ears, or alien eyes, so they're human.
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Christine
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:42 am

Throat of the World

This is the highest mountain in Skyrim, and the highest in Tamriel aside from Vvardenfell in Morrowind. The Nords believe men were formed on this mountain when the sky breathed onto the land. Hence the Song of Return refers not only to Ysgramor's return to Tamriel after the destruction of Saarthal, but to the Nords' return to what they believe was their original homeland. Pilgrims travel from across Skyrim to climb the Seven Thousand Steps to High Hrothgar, where the most ancient and honored Greybeards dwell in absolute silence in their quest to become ever more attuned to the voice of the sky.

From the First Pocket Guide.

Amazing, I hadn't read this or don't remember this. So the Nords believe that Skyrim is the home of all of mankind.
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trisha punch
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:32 pm

There are known to other continents that have not been named or chartered. Perhaps Humans decended from one of them before splitting off to Yokuda and or Atmora?
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Juan Suarez
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 2:28 pm

I still find it strange that Humanity could have a single point of origination, given the extremely alien quality of the Yokudan belief system in relation to the Nedic. If the two civilizations were truly a single people at one time, why do their religions differ so greatly with such a vast gulf between their languages and beliefs? It makes no sense to have a single population that branches off into two sub-races which diverge by 180 degrees the second the two gain distance from each other.
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Facebook me
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:33 pm

It makes cosmic sense when you think about it.

Basically like this, if I've got my stuff straight: Nirn is created, Ehlnofey and Hist populate the land. Tamriel is like some mythical mega-continent. Ehlnofey break into Aldmer and Men. Dawn Era ends with Tamriel split across the oceans (and the Hist are said to have mostly sunk under the waters in this time of awful fighting, only remaining in the swamps of Black Marsh). Left-handed Elves and proto-Redguards end up on Yokuda. Some Men leave for Atmora, others stay in Cyrodiil (the Nedes, et al). The Aldmer, spreading out from the Summerset Isles, become Ayleids, Bosmer, Orsimer and Velothi (Chimer, later Dunmer), and those remaining in Summerset become Altmer. The Dwemer split at some unknown point in the far past.
Atmoran Men return to Tamriel, some split off and mix with Altmer in High Rock becoming the Bretons, others become the Nords.
Yokuda is destroyed, Redguards return to Tamriel.
Bosmer and Khajiit come from the same aldmeri forest-people, with Khajiit taking their distinctive form because of a blessing by Azura or somesuch. (not entirely sure on either point)

I think that's everybody.

edit: Oh, the Argonians. Produced by the Hist, the only sentient race of Tamriel that isn't descended from the Ehlnofey.
Pretty sure giants trace back to the Ehlnofey as well, actually.

You're saying Ogres, Goblins and Dreugh are descended from Ehlnofey? I'm 99% sure the Dreugh are not.

And, I doubt the Khajiit are (descended from) elves. I know there is evidence that they are, but there is also evidence that they are not. I'm willing to bet they are something different, like the Argonions and Dreugh. Probably related to Lilmothiit (and obviously related to Ka Po Tun)


Also, I kinda laughed when I saw the title because it seemed so bad.
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Steve Fallon
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 2:03 pm

There are known to other continents that have not been named or chartered. Perhaps Humans decended from one of them before splitting off to Yokuda and or Atmora?
We know there were humans on Akavir at one point. Whether or not they are still there is unknown.

What about the other native tribes like the Kothringi?

Where did the Sload, Dreugh, Goblins, Kamal, Tang Mo, and... those apes in Valenwood... I forgot their name...
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Bethany Watkin
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:00 am

So how is that reconcilable with the Nu-Mantia intercept that states that there was never such a place as Old Ehlnofey. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that statement should be taken completely at its word.

It would be impossible for there to be no original home for the Old Ehlnofey, even if that home was just the place they all first materialized. If the Old Ehlnofey never had a home, than logically they never would have existed.

Did the Ehlnofey suffer some sort of racial amnesia, causing them to forget their first years on Nirn, I wonder?

Sometimes metaphor exists in the TES universe. Old Ehlnofey was Tamriel when the Mer all had the same belief structure.

I still find it strange that Humanity could have a single point of origination, given the extremely alien quality of the Yokudan belief system in relation to the Nedic. If the two civilizations were truly a single people at one time, why do their religions differ so greatly with such a vast gulf between their languages and beliefs? It makes no sense to have a single population that branches off into two sub-races which diverge by 180 degrees the second the two gain distance from each other.

Nords believe in the same cycles. Satakal and Alduin preform the same role in both societies. They have the same Aedra buried under the thousands of culture heroes.

Cultures change. The Yokudans began the form their own belief system over time.
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Cash n Class
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:28 am

And, I doubt the Khajiit are (descended from) elves.
They're not, really. Khajiit creation has them coming from the same group as proto-Bosmer, but they're not elves. When Septimus has you getting samples of blood from all the elven races to fool the Dwemer mechanism, he knows to include Orcs but Khajiit are distinctly abscent.
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 2:27 pm

This explains it very well http://www.imperial-library.info/content/childrens-anuad
Btw. the Ayleids are Altmeri Elves, just another branch. They are called "The Wild Elves", they are like the "Forsworn" of the Altmer race, holding on to old believes etc.
This is an okay comparison, but the beliefs of the Wild Elves/High Elves/Left-Handed Elves were all ostensibly the same. All acknowledged the Altmeri pantheon, worshiping the Aedra as the creators of Mundus. The cultures of all these different elves began to vary as they spread across the world. The odd cultural idiosyncrasy of the Ayleids was that they really got a jolly from communing with Daedra (Nu-hatta tells us that this was to score big magicky chunks of Aetherius to power their Towers). This relationship was decidedly practical, they never worshiped the Daedra, but their relationship with Oblivion could be easily misinterpreted as such. Come to think of it, some Alessian documents might say something along those lines, but I'm not sure.

This contrasts with the Forsworn, who have some really crazy maybe-lovecraftian-though-I-don't-know-anything-because-I-haven't-read-anything-about-the-forsworn gods. Major differences from the three big civilizations of Men that surround where they live.
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:49 am

This contrasts with the Forsworn, who have some really crazy maybe-lovecraftian-though-I-don't-know-anything-because-I-haven't-read-anything-about-the-forsworn gods. Major differences from the three big civilizations of Men that surround where they live.

Forsworn Briarhearts seem to have an odd connection to Lorkhan.
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Luis Reyma
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:46 pm

I've never heard the actual phrase human in a TES game (at least I don't remember it, been playing since MW), it's always Man or Mer.

They say "human" in TES games, trust me. Its not just "man" and "mer". The word "human" is interchangeable with the word "man" in a way that is similar to the way the word "elf" is interchangeable with the word "mer". The word "human" is also found in the in-game books.
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alicia hillier
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:44 pm

I still find it strange that Humanity could have a single point of origination, given the extremely alien quality of the Yokudan belief system in relation to the Nedic. If the two civilizations were truly a single people at one time, why do their religions differ so greatly with such a vast gulf between their languages and beliefs? It makes no sense to have a single population that branches off into two sub-races which diverge by 180 degrees the second the two gain distance from each other.
I find it strange that you think they would be more similar. Is this not what happens IRL also?
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Lizbeth Ruiz
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:28 pm

I find it strange that you think they would be more similar. Is this not what happens IRL also?

Yes. It doesn't take that long, either.
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saharen beauty
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:05 am

You're saying Ogres, Goblins and Dreugh are descended from Ehlnofey?
I'm not saying that (I may not have made it clear enough that I was only talking about the origins of the playable races. I didn't address Sload, Imga, Goblins, Bears, Frogs, Mudcrabs or anything like that), but I wouldn't be averse to suggesting it honestly.
I'm 99% sure the Dreugh are not.
Ironically, there are some hints that they may indeed be Mer.
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anna ley
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:55 pm

Ironically, there are some hints that they may indeed be Mer.
Altmer of the sea, Cephlomer, ugly elf faced crab people. Take your pick.
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Jhenna lee Lizama
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:14 pm

It's not *my* theory, it's the FACT agreed upon by scientists worldwide.

Yeah I know, but Nirn is not our world. You can't explain breeding in Nirn as you can on earth. Jesus :bunny:
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Stacyia
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:34 am

Pretty much just what it says. I was reading up on them and noticed that they don't share the ancient ancestral home of humans. So... what are they, if not human?
All life started on Tamriel. And I'm pretty sure all the races of men were created from the weakest of the Ehlnofey by Lorkhan. I wouldn't be surprised if the racial distinction came later in time once they separated and went to different places on Nirn. Kinda like the Mer were more or less the same in the beginning and changed later.
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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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