I agree. The trees look fine, but they're all pretty thin and at least the conifer type trees look more or less all the same (which they do in real life as well more or less on the other hand). I hope they'll have a deep forest with large trees standing relatively close to each other (as close as makes sense) and a large amount of undergrowth beyond them. When I saw the first trailers/screenshots for Oblivion I was really hoping for a 'getting lost in a huge, dark forest' feeling. Unfortunately Oblivion's forests were far too open and were too cluttered with dungeons, villages etc to create that feeling. I hope something like that exists in Skyrim. The trailer doesn't show anything like it though.



So thousands of objects that can be seen everywhere in the game world and that make or break the quality of the scenery are not important?

I can agree with you there totally.
But the question is not: are trees important ?, but: is a further pollishing / editing of these trees and its additional variety important ?
And there I would clearly say: No !
And this is, because for me there are (as far as I can judge til now) already enough "realistic" environmental aspects at a whole in Skyrim, which may give me a feeling of immersion (even in only looking at some screen-shots or getting some short gameplay impressions in a trailer).


Good question ! :tongue:

But seriously there indeed are some more important things to discuss regarding Skyrim, imo.

Objection your honour, leading a question...

(that's how long your argument would stand up in court lol)

No way, seriously? I never wrote anything like "I don't like Skyrim because" or "I won't buy the game because"...
All I'm saying is that I'm worried we won't see much variety in different types of trees which, as hlvr was saying, is a big part of Skyrim.
I think Skyrim is going to be the best RPG ever created, don't interpret what I'm writing the wrong way, read carefully before stating such comments.

Back to the matter at hand. I like how the game feels and overall gameplay waaaaaaaay better than graphics or such small details. All I'm saying is that it all adds up to one big world where I'd like to see some variety, I'm hoping for some... that is. I'd like to have an area where there's only a hill and a big oak tree standing on top of it. But up till now all we've seen are - very much alike - trees.

It's not the size of the tree, it's the soil you plant it in??

Ofcourse there are, but you can clearly see that this discussion is important to some people, may not be to you, but for some people it is. This forum is not meant for topics "Most" people can discuss, it's meant for topics that people want to discuss about, even if it means in smaller groups or larger groups (And by the comments around here, you can see that quite a few people thought about this issue).

You are right though, the question at hand is "Is a further pollishing / editing of these trees and its additional variety important?"
To me it is, I am satisfied with the screens we've seen so far and the trailer, I'll play, have fun and worship Skyrim even if it doesn't have a wide range of tree types (a silly thing to bash a game for).
But as Todd said, they try to combine a few types of environments here, which means they have to have a few types of trees, bigger trees even. Also, a variety of trees in the same place as hlvr stated is important because it creates a unique look and gives you that "I'm in the wilderness" kind of feeling. Ofcourse Skyrim's forests may create that same feeling as well, I'm saying, if it's a rugged place as stated then it might as well look more like one (especially in a fantasy kind of realm).

Backachta chief

All I implied was that there are more important things to worry about. Albeit in a classy and hilarious way...

So in other words, you're not talking about the trees actually being the same type, but just all growing in a thin fashion?

Realistically speaking, how trees grow would depend on certain factors, I'm not an expert on trees, but I'd assume climate and soil would both factor in, so what we've seen of Skyrim's trees may be a result of that, and in any case, we haven't seen all types of environments the game has yet, so it's possible that we'll see different looking trees in other environments we haven't seen yet. It would be kind of annoying if all trees were the same across the whole province, even if it made realistic sense, because that may lead to generic environments, which is of course not desirable, but so far, I don't see reason to think Skyrim will suffer from that problem.

Also, if you look at this screen (of the "ruined fort"):

http://elderscrolls.com/skyrim/media/

... you can clearly see, that there is some of the demanded variety, already (the trees shown are without leafes (another realism-aspect ? ), but certainly no pine-trees !).

One of the mods I use for Oblivion only increases the size of all the trees by 2x and it makes a huge difference.

Here's what trees in Skyrim should look like:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/01/02/swedenforest460ready.jpg
http://ingevald.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/sweden-river-fog-in-trees.jpg
http://www.wallpaperweb.org/wallpaper/nature/1600x1200/SnowCovered_Trees_Varmland_Sweden.jpg
http://www.galleryfallstrom.com/galleri/trees-field-winter-sweden.jpg

The trees in the screenshots aren't that bad but I have pretty low hopes for them either way.

You don't see large trees all over Canada either. If you go to the northern areas, the trees there get pretty scrawny as well. And even our biggest trees don't come close to the Redwoods you'll find in northern California. People have actually built homes inside of some of them, and there's at least one that has a road going through it. As for the OP, Skyrim has more of an arctic climate. You just won't get as much variety in the trees as you would in a more southern location. Only the hardiest varieties are going to be able to survive there, and that will usually mean only evergreen type trees.

I definitely think it's very important for trees to have a nice varied look. It makes the feeling of being a forest greater. It enhances it. It makes things seam less repeated and a more realistic look to forests. A unique "I'm in the wilderness" kind of feeling like DarkDeliverians.

Vurt's trees mods are amazing and a great example. They add a really nice variety that still makes sense in the environment they're in. It also looks a lot more nice.

How environments look are really important. Like with unique landscapes, unique trees are important. Like with unique cities, unique trees are important as well.
I do think they're very much important enough to worry about, BUT I feel that it's sadly too late to change this now. The game has been in development for many years.
I really hope we all have wrong in this thread and the rest of Skyrim we will see will have a much greater variety in trees... but based on what we've seen so far, it doesn't really look like that much variety, honestly.

The good thing is if they really have their own 'tree generator' built into the Creation Kit (I think they said that in an interview) it will be much easier to mod in new tree types than it was in Oblivion, where you needed Speedtree (which is extremely expensive and there is not even a demo version of it).

It is mostly Tundra, Pine trees grow in tundra, since we have seen mainly snowy shots, save a few, it would make sense.

Seconded !

Well I hate to break it to you, but having forests with the same kind of trees spreading out for miles is realistic in a northern climate. Go anywhere in northern Canada and you will see just a few different types everywhere you go. There's just isn't that much variety with that kind of climate.

I support tree diversity!! I hope they arnt ALL pine tree's even if that is the majority of species in SR.

I am really hoping for some large deciduous trees in the south. If there are just pinales, I'm going to cry.

And yes, even among pine trees, there should be a great variety. There have to be at least some http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Kiefer_gegen_Himmel.JPG.

I have a summerhouse in a pine forest. I own a big pine forest. I know what my own land looks like, thank you.

They have much more variety in real life, but that doesn't matter itself. DarkDeliverians said it him/herself before. I quote exactly:
"Besides, if you're going to use the "Realism" argument then you might as well say that it doesn't make sense for Skyrim to have so many different areas within such a small world-space.
They want diversity in appearance for the game, so why not add a few unique looking trees in different places, and combine some different trees rather than the same type over and over again?"

I agree. It is certainly important to have nice trees. However, if you were going to rate the importance of certain features for a game like this, how high up the list would tree variance come?

Because what we are actually talking about here is not the importance of scenery, or even the value of uniqueness in trees - we are discussing the specific level of uniqueness present in the trees...

*Where's that forest gone? ... there are trees everywhere. How are we supposed to find a forest in the middle of all these trees?! lol

I see where you guys are coming from and what your asking for would be an improvement to the game BUT I've already noticed at least a dozen different tree models in a single scene and to ask for more than that on the consoles is unreasonable. I'm sure they are pushing them to their limits already.

Oh well, I guess it's just human nature or maybe it's a result of our capitalist society to always ask for more no matter what you get.

If they do have one it would be awesome! I don't recall hearing about it though, if you'll find it or remember where you've heard it then show the link please.

As to the statements of Skyrim having only thin, breakable trees due to its climate... I understand this argument on your side, I really do, but notice that there are other types of environments we've already seen, like lush, green forests (not many, some) that to some extent do require a bigger variety in trees, and some of them, it's possible, should have thicker, bigger trees.

Remember, not all of Skyrim is snow-covered. Todd stated that they wanted different and unique environments with Skyrim.

Link please?

Nice avatar, btw.

Look at the log behind the orc on the orc screenshot. Looks like it might have been a larger tree.

xD Don't take this the wrong way, I know it can't be changed or added to the game at these stages.
What I'm doing is I'm making people aware of the matter, it's something that bugs me a bit, and I think I can share it with the rest of the people here in this forum

You are right though, I think at this point of time with Skyrim being too much limited to consoles and lowering Skyrim's true potential a bit, it is indeed impossible to ask for more diversity in tree types, as we already have a big variety of them (maybe not in the type, but in the models).

Nonetheless, I still hope Skyrim presents us with at least some different, unique trees. Maybe even adding mushrooms in some places, now that would be atmospheric and routine-breaking!