I already know they've said it's "roughly the same size as Oblivion" but I don't believe it so convince me otherwise.

If all five cities are as massive as they say and as massive as they appear in the trailer and with the massive mountains scattered around how can this really be "roughly" the same size? Don't forget there is supposedly over twenty towns/settlements that are decent size as well so this just doesn't make sense.

I just hope it doesn't turn out like Fallout: NV where they crammed so much stuff in the map that there was hardly any room left for exploration.

Bethesda has a lot more experience in designing good open worlds, though, so I don't think that'll happen.

Thats why Fallout needs map nodes..

I hope there isn't as many invisible walls around the mountains as there is in New Vegas as well.

I'm afraid of it feeling cramped up.
Oblivion certainly felt like that. Dungeon every 20-30sec, almost anywhere you went.
Imo, it destroys the feeling of exploration and the feeling of being this "huge open world".

It also makes it impossible to have great majestic mountains and valleys that are (read carefully) not ridiciously scaled.

Both of these to things is what I really dislike about it being "roughly the same size as Oblivion".
Also, if it was a little bigger than Oblivion, they would have said that, wouldn't they? This could mean that the world is even a bit smaller than Oblivion.

Its too late to change so you might as well just stop complaining. Dont be such a pessimist, why dont you talk about things that you find interesting and exciting? And if there aren none for you then get off this forum. We cant convince you otherwise because the game is not out. The map might be big or large but like the poster ahead of me said if it is too condensed it is bad and if it is too open it is bad.

You never know with the devs. Do we like the devs...yeah (most of the time), do we always take the devs at their word...ehhhh? The map in oblivion was great for exploring. One minute you are exiting an abandoned fort, the next minute you stumble upon a meandering stream and lo, theres a wreckage of a ship. I mean how awesome is that. Part of the thing with NV was that it was in the desert so yeah it would feel kinda like they had to stuff a lot of bldgs and what not into each settlement, and then in between the settlements there was...SAND (and a lot of other cool things dont get me wrong). But yeah the small touches make the map feel bigger. A little cottage with a homesteader out farming or an abandoned fort or whatev...small touches!

Well it may very well be the same lateral size on an XY plane, but I'm looking forward to real growth and advancement on building up and down, in both cities and in the environment.
And besides, I'm not worried about the actual raw SIZE of the world. Morrowind was 6 sq miles smaller than Oblivion and felt absolutely huge in comparison, never mind the walking speeds and the travel limitations. It's all about the structure of the place.

Three questions. What are map nodes? Are they in TES? And is that an LA Noire avatar?

IF IT MAKES YOU GUYS FEEL BETTER IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THAT THERE ARE ONLY 126 CAVES IN SKYRIM, COMPARED TO OBLIVIONS 200 somethings and oblivion is slightly bigger.

Yes, but there's one problem. Skyrim has less dungeons for one.

That already opens up a vast amount of space in comparison. Now there also won't be Oblivion Gates. That's even more open area. Now there's also the fact that elevation makes up a great deal of Skyrim as well. I personally think we'll find a good balance of open areas and vast cities, but with enough in between that it's not creating a billboard like effect along every road you travel.

EDIT: Not only that, but the actual demographic isn't procedurally created so we'll actually see INTERESTING environments.

I was disappointed by the size of the strip in New Vegas more than the wasteland, it was far smaller and less visually striking then I would have imagined.
On topic though, devs tend to exaggerate the size of games. I always take what they say with a pinch of salt.

Source?
And besides, Oblivion only has http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Caves

Yup - should be interesting!

Lets say that each city is in between the size of IC and say, Skingrad: There are 5 of these, and 9 in OB (including IC). 1.5 x 5 = 7.5, (1.5 being the size of each city, assuming that they are 1.5 times larger than an average OB city). So that is a ratio of 7.5:9, which would mean that Oblivion's cities in fact, consume more space. It is of course, possible that the average Skyrim city is larger than 150% of an OB city. And he mentioned that all the dungeons will be more varied, which might mean fewer (thus leaving more space for the settlements).

In conclusion, I would not worry about this.

By caves I meant dungeons, ruins and other things in the wild. It is in a gameinformer article that discusses the amount of people working on Skyrim's caves.

I know. 120 dungeons. 80 less than OB.
That's something positive... BUT I still think think it will feel a bit cramped up. I really hope not. But I fear it.

It's also sad that Bethesda won't be able to show off Skyrim by saying "It's this huge open world". Because, to be honest, it's pretty small for today's standards. Far Cry 2 is bigger. RDR is a lot bigger. Just Cause 2 is incredibly bigger.
Now these are different games and have different environments (and can't be compared as games in total), but if we only look at the "It's this huge open world" aspect, then Bethesda won't be able to say it anymore. Because it's definitely not huge, compared to other games, size-wise only.

But the definition of what it means to be a huge open world doesn't depend just on raw size. It also depends, among other things, on the illusion of size, and how far that illusion can bend.
Also, simply because there are other, larger things out there, doesn't mean that a game of this size suddenly ceases to be huge.

Take all of Skyrim, mountains and all, and make it flat, as far as surface area goes, Id say it would be the size of Cyrodiil, or bigger.
I think it will "Feel" LOTS bigger because of the distance we have to travel around mountains/lakes/etc.

Thats if you arent cheap. And Fast Travel.

You want this forum to convince you its as big as Oblivion.....Well it might have said in GI.... but I believe this is a dumb discussion.... :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead:

Yeah, climbing up very climbable looking wall of rocks was rather annoying. When you got to the top there was just invisible wall forcing you to go around it. :cryvaultboy:
It wasn't made by these developers so I think it's safe to assume you can go over every hill and valley, just like in Oblivion and in Morrowind.

that would actually kill me...

the terrain for skyrim allows it to be "roughly the same size as oblivion" but seem much much larger
im calling it .. psuedo-sizing.. although the actual border to border point at one height may be similar to OB.. by adding in the hugely varied landscape we can larger towns in smaller spaces because it takes up alot more surface area without taking up too much room

It actually does cease to be huge.
Comparison: when graphics improve as the years go by, you wouldn't be able to call one thing "really nice looking" that's like 5 years old, compared to newer things. If Oblivion was released today again, would it be able to be called "really nice looking game!" or "it has cutting-edge graphics!"?

And when it comes to the term "huge open world", I think 99% people think of the the size huge. Not the illusion huge. When people say "The game is huge!!!" they are demonstrating the size of the game, not the illusion of it.

That's my opinion.

I'm rather concerned, though, that while there may be more space in between stuff, the scaling up of the mountains will mean that a lot of that space will be lost due to inaccessible slopes.

Not as big but bigger.