I've been playing a Destruction/Conjuration/Alteration Mage on Expert and am now level 19 (~330 mana). This was the first character that I was absolutely REQUIRED to bring Lydia/other Companion in conjunction to my pet. Without spoiling too much, I was doing a Companion quest that was literally impossible on my own with this playstyle. After picking up Lydia, I mostly breezed through it. Never used a companion before this on any difficulty.

That's not even really the issue though. I simply resigned to the fact that I'd be lugging around a suitcase that can attack and act as a distraction until I get my Dremora Lord. No big deal. Except when I started doing the quest. Which I am now on the last fight. I also only have ten mana potions, stupidly thinking I'd be ok with just that many. The current fight is ridiculously stupid in that it exemplifies just how utterly broken/inefficient Destruction is prior to cheesing with the -25% x 4 enchants that not everyone uses, nor even has until higher levels if they do go for it.

For one thing, in this particular fight

I've been saying all along that a Mage would be better off by just using a bow for their damage, but I honestly had no idea it was this bad until now. There's a mod on the Nexus forum that actually increases the overall damage that Destruction can do by 35% at Master skill, but that's still nowhere near enough. Destruction needs to gain .5% damage per skill level and Dual Casting needs a drastic overhaul, because it's garbage in it's current form. People keep mentioning "infinite mana" with the 100% reduction enchants, but the people that mention that have no point. It doesn't fix the problem. And if you think that it does, step outside yourself a moment and realize what physical classes get when trying to cheese the game in a similar manner.

I did this fight with a mage and a warrior DW. I had no problem on either...

You didn't prove anything other than that you were able to "mostly breeze through it" with Lydia on Expert.

Destruction is amazing at your level. It's 50+ where it's absolutely worthless.

Yeah it svcks. Some advice.

1. Learn to dodge arrows
2. Run around in circles for five minutes while your mana recharges
3. Abuse the quicksave every time you do damage or avoid damage

OP: I agree that destruction is not nearly as powerful as it were in past games, lack of custom spells is a big reason why and also the fact that it doesn't scale well, you're gonna love the final part of the quest :flamethrower:

Yeah, Destruction becomes pretty crappy past about Level 15. Mind you, even as a Melee character on Expert, I was having some trouble with the Companions quest at Dustman's Cairn. Well, mainly at the final stretch when there are like five higher-leveled Silver Hand enemies in the same room.

This is false. I've just spent the last hour on the fight and even the boss I'm also not sure why you are bothering to mention Warriors. Most people who have played both styles already know how much easier they are with practically everything in the game. I never had problems with anything other than the random one-hit kill shock Mages on anything with my Warrior even on Master. And I wasn't using Smithing + Enchanting + Alchemy gear either. I also have no idea what difficulty you are playing on, but even the clones do a massive amount of damage to my character, so I can't simply ignore them.



That is the exact point where I had to pickup Lydia. Or I think that's the place anyway. It was a fort and the room had a Mage and an archer sitting at a table and then another archer or two off to the side, and if you stay too long, a two-handed Orc Sword Warrior comes to help out.



Hah, I already know about these tactics. I don't save after each time I do damage though. I can't get stuck in a situation where I unintentionally screw myself over. I was one of the first people to start talking about how awful Destruction is in this game, even on Adept level. I scrapped my level 30 on the second day because I was hitting a brick wall again and again and it was simply not worth the effort. Every other character has been "ezmode" in comparison and I play on Expert or Master.



Yes, it's "amazing" when you're fighting trash enemies that die to 1-2 melee swings. It's not so "amazing" in any fight with enemies equal or higher to your level. You run completely out of mana and cannot do anything. Once you reach a high level Conjuration skill, all of your problems vanish because you simply summon a Dremora to do everything for you. Sorry, 300 mana is not "amazing" for an extended fight when you actually have to cast more than single shots (since Dual Casting is out of the question). Like I said, I'm not playing on Adept.




I didn't even pick up a follower until halfway through level 17. She was useful for helping me to clear out one room, and she almost died twice in the process. Now imagine actually doing that part without her as Destruction. Yeah, not likely at level 17. Yet you can do it with a Warrior or stealth archer type even on Master.

I've done the quest on my DW warrior, but not my mage yet. I did NOT feel like the quest was so easy on my warrior, but I managed to get through it.

However, overall I feel that my mage is pretty darn powerful. I have 68% (iirc) destruction spell cost. This is from enchanting with my skill that has grown organically. It's not 100% or nothing, you can actually just use the stuff you can make...

This is the worst example of "how poor destruction is." This fight is meant to be one of the toughest in the game. You mean your mage doesn't feel well against multiple archers all at the same time? *GASP!* Go get conjuration for a tank.

Yeah, I'm on the very last fight and it's so much worse. I kind of assumed the one that I started this topic with was the final event, because of how annoying it is and because there didn't seem like there would be much left after it. The final event just makes me wonder what the hell Bethesda was thinking. It's not easy for a caster who doesn't have a Dremora yet, and it's definitely not easy for an archer type that doesn't have Shadow Warrior yet.



Yes, if you a) shop the stores until the item you need with the enchant appears or b ) get lucky to have it drop. At level 19 the only Destruction enchant I have is the Fotify Destruction + Magicka Regen, and it only allows me to put it on my chest, so I need just "Fortify Destruction" before I can do anything with it. So, I have -17% right now and it's nowhere near enough.



Gotta love the snarky remark when I specifically mentioned the issues with "a tank" on this fight. Try reading before replying.





You need to open your eyes.

Lack of strategy? Oh, you mean sitting there waiting for my mana to regen, or simply already having a giant stack of them? Get off your high horse, because you didn't do anything "more strategic" than that. Why would I use Dual Casting on this fight when I'm already having mana problems? You say you're playing on Master, but your comments just make me think you're either lying or you did this at a much higher level with a lot more mana. Dual Casting is a 40% increase in cost for a 10% damage gain. Yeah, that would be a SMART strategy to use on this fight. I also already mentioned using Ironskin, but good job reading.

The fight is stupid. I easily finished it by just sitting there...waiting for mana to return.

Fore some reason all the mage enemies in this game are stupidly over powered. Whenever i play as a mage character i rarely get a one shot hit at the emeny, no matter what high level spell i use. However when i play a warrior charcter and go up against a high level mage, they one shot me before i get close enough to whack them with my axe :swear:

Destruction was fine up until expert level; after that the magica cost is insane... Plus for destruction to even be feasible you have to pretty much take every single perk.

My mage has destruction, illusion, and sneaking. I use this combination so I can actually cast the required 15 lightning bolts at the drauger scourges without being turned into a greasy spot on the floor by not being discovered. And then I get to wait for the mana to recharge so I can then kill his 3 body guards of varying power. Destruction magic in this game is a joke. I mean for gods sake, you put weakness to magic as a POISON effect? Am I supposed to go poke him in the back before casting a fireball? I don't recall them offering that particular class at the college of Winterhold.

So, because a boss fight is really hard for you to get through using magic you think Destruction and magic is defective? Your soulution is to go get 300 (!!) arrows to survive it but somehow a clever magic solution doesn't occur to you and that's okay? If you've tried every clever and creative solution you can come up with for a boss fight and still can't make it through on magic then I'll believe you. But what you are saying to us is a basic mage strategy isn't working for you so you are giving up and calling magic defective and will go with basic overkill with a basic weapon. You probably shouldn't be playing a mage then, because it's really designed to be played and enjoyed by a more creative player.

Honestly, I gave up and opted for Lydia to protect me. Doing so brought me a sense of place and roleplaying.

Mages are class canons anyways, not meant to soak up any kind of damage for a sustained period of time. I usually roll with Destruction, using my flames in close combat whilst fireball to shoot down aerial targets. [ Dragons ]. I always have a bound sword conjured the moment I enter into battle in order to assist Lydia or use it if the enemy got too close to me or magicka ran out.

Restoration, I only perked into cutting Novice magic in half due the fact I solely invest into Magicka.

Dear Sanctuary, if you dont like it, dont use it. Otherwise quit your [censored]ing and find out a different solution or find out what your doing wrong. Peace.

Lol me too. I just got out of there and the whole time I was in there Inwas throwing obscenities everywhere. lol. I'm a sneak. Farkas is so not a sneak. He throws away my position and I have to run my @$$ off lol.

You can't just ignore health dude, stamina you can, but not health. And level 19 you should be running through things till level 40

Did I say that this fight is what brought me to that conclusion? My first character was a Destruction ONLY (see:no pets to do everything for me) character that I scrapped after level 30. This was on Adept level. My next two characters were both on Expert and Master. I revisited a Destruction/Conjurer afterwards already knowing ahead of time how poor Destruction is compared to everything else. This fight just exemplifies it's problems to the extreme.




What's with all of these "U R DUMB I IS SMRT PLAYR" comments? Are most of you twelve? Can you not possibly read what is written before replying? Have you even done this fight? Mana is an issue, there's not a "strategy" or "super secret smart way" to make your mana regen faster than it does in combat. Even using the most efficient manner of casting drains your mana much too quickly to do anything but sit there. Which is exactly what I did when I ran out of mana. I sat. Until I mana returned...while if I had actually picked up arrows, I would have been sneak attacking repeatedly due to the way this fight is setup. Please though, continue to act as though I am a child incapable of understanding simple concepts.




Again, reading helps. The only way to speed up this fight is to have already known about it ahead of time and to have brought a ton of extra mana potions. Followers are useless on this, and if you don't have a Dremora (most won't at this level), your pets are an utter waste of resources. I never said that I wasn't going to be able to get past it...which some of you seem to assume I was saying, when I wasn't. I was simply not willing to just sit there waiting for mana to regen over 20 seconds before being able to take off another 20% of his health. That's how I had to do it though.

Have you considered that the fight is designed for higher level characters and you are too low to do it?

Remember, this game has less level scaling than Oblivion and Morrowind - there are some areas designed for you to say "its too hard, I need to come back in 10 levels"

Destruction is just there for the eyecandy and fireworks, the effects are pretty nice.

And i think i've just experienced destruction at its worst as well, at level 30; in a dungeon, for a quest, 4 guys are charging me. Lets just say that after trying 3 times with robes + conjuration +destruction and dying, i switched to iron armor (didnt have anything better) and an enchanted ebony blade, with a restoration spell. And quite easily breezed through them. With no perks in one-handed, i could own better than spending like 8 perks in destruction. How's that.
My one-handed was on the same level as my destruction, since i'd been using swords whenever i run out of magicka or when i felt like it

Eesh! I haven't even thought about magic yet, being only a few hours into my first character, but if that's legit advice, then something has gone very, very wrong in development. I'm not looking forward to this...

Welcome to the plight of the mage. Why spend decades mastering magic when swinging a sword has 20x the effects.

Lol @ getting killed by arrows. Dodging 101.

Also i've seen a lot of complaints about people not being able to dodge magic as well. Dear god. Of course if you just strafe constantly one way then mobs will aim in front of you and you'll strafe right into it - just like you should be doing to them. You change direction just as they're about to fire, you utterly incompetent fools lol.

Dodge until you regen and then win the damn fight. Sure, casting may need to be strengthened a bit, but the main thing you proved from your post is how terrible you are if you view any fight in any game as "impossible".