Today, after I got back from work, I finished the Pitt for the first time. Awesomely well done DLC, Bethesda. I ended up siding with Ashur, but dear lord it was a tortuous choice. Making it hit even harder was the part added to the end of the Rad Resist perk I got as a reward, "Try not to think about the cost to other people."

Ouch.

Round 2: Getting back to Megaton, right inside the gate at exactly midnight, a settler stops Yelena and gives her 30 caps, saying how the whole wasteland was thankful, and wished more people were like her.

Talk about an emotional punch to the gut.

I can only imagine the look on Yelena's face after that. All the missions and hardships up to the Pitt had been cut and dry. Good/Bad. Yelena being a good soul, favored the former. All that time being able to live and fight in a blissful black and white perspective, kicking ass for the Good Fight. Sticking it to Talon Company and Raiders with a wink and a grin; laser rifle blazing and townspeople cheering. Have no fear, the Champion is here.

Such a short-sighted, childlike and selfish worldview. Of COURSE everything can come out golden! She's Yelena, Protector of the Innocent and Sentinel of the Wastes! Just let her take the problem head on and everything will be okay!

She was almost able to see the S on her chestplate.

The Pitt beat that out of her. Yelena grew up a lot and came out a much stronger woman for it. Hard time saying if that's a good thing though. Or if she's a better person now. Not so much winking and grinning or belief in her own BS anymore. Can she even call herself a good person anymore? Can she honestly say she's worthy of all the respect and adulation she gets from passerby's? She compromised her ideals because it was the only way to get a less evil outcome out of hell on earth. It had to be done, because the other option was a far worse one.

Thats what she tells herself, anyway. Does that make her a monster? That question will keep her awake at night.

Since she still has to get to Rivit City, this player is hoping for more hard choices like that. More hero-complex wrecking actions to be taken. More of the guilt that torments the hearts and souls of truly good people forced to take hard action. Since Yelena still has to cross paths with the Enclave, I'm ready for some good storytelling. I want my character sitting awake at night, trying to fight off sleep so she doesn't have to see faces in her dreams. I want her in tears, only to be brought back onto her feet by Sheriff Simms or someone else she respects and told all she can do is keep fighting.

I want Yelena to earn her happy ending. Even if it's a bittersweet one. Because real heroes don't wear capes, they silently bear their private millstones and keep going.

Because the Good Fight doesn't fight itself, and war never changes.

Yes, I did like the Pitt because of the extremely difficult choice it gives you near the end.

I`ll tell you one thing, you don`t want to upset a mother by taking her baby from her! It`s not pretty!

I like your story-telling. There's a couple more quests where you are forced to make a choice, for better or worse. I agree, the first time I did the Pitt, I actually turned off the game and thought long and hard about my decision. I like games like this. I want more consequences for the choices that the LW has to make.

Psssssst there's a spoiler section of this forum.

Re: your spoiler

lol! :tops:




I've asked to have this thread moved.

@Skirty and Llama:

I want to be part of the in crowd too!

I couldn't help but note Ashur was always straight up with me and the slaves lied about everything that mattered. I couldn't help but admire Ashur...in spite of his methods....to create a Empire from nothing was impressive. Unlike Caesar I could actually see myself following Ashur.

hrm, how do you do the spolier tag?

Furthermore, if you Child at Heart the final conversation with Midea, it is insinuated that Werhner didn't tell her the entire truth about the baby. He was using her. I've done it both ways, but these days I leave the baby.

[ spoiler] sneaky stuff you want to say [ /spoiler]
Remove the space inside each bracket and you get

Edit: It's not really necessary in this case since this topic was moved to the Cheats, Hints and Spoilers forum.

Thanks I swear that's exactly what I did but didn't seem to work... well I was gonna write some major spoilers and didn't want to leave them unguarded in a thread claiming to be a minor spoiler. mayber after work, gah.

I finished the Pitt yesterday as well. First time for me.

Well. I have a strong objection against slavery, probably reinforced by having played Morrowind mostly as a Khajiit. So, I sided with the slaves in the Pitt, also because though Ashur managed to bring some order into this chaos, it was an evil order. Chaos and anarchy would be better than that.

Right. I stealthboyed myself, grabbed the baby and snuck out of the Haven, leaving the mother alone, while punching raiders out of my way. I needed more fingers for my finger collection and I hate raiders almost as badly as I hate super mutants. Feeling quite happy with everything, I went to Wernher... who started to call the baby an "it" and a "brat" and who wanted me to sabotage Uptown. I call babies and children "it" and "brat" as well, but I don't feel so cheerful about unmotivated genocides. Anyway, there seemed to be no other way, so I did it.

When I returned to the surface of Uptown, Ashur and his lover were standing next to the door through which I just came, but they were immediately distracted by the troglodytes. So I never heard what they might have wanted to say. Ashur was the only one left alive not much later and he still didn't want to talk to me. I then just shot him, mostly because I wanted to see if he was dropping a finger (he did), but also because I think that he deserved it, megalomaniac slaver bastard, evil overlord and god impostor that he was.

I wouldn't have killed his wife (unless the game would've really forced me to, which I don't know), but a troglodyte had ripped off her legs... so there I didn't have to make any choice.

Midea then seemed to be not too bad of a supplement mother for the baby, while Wernher still disliked it. So, Marie will have a unfriendly supplement "father" now, and a caring supplement mother. If she had stayed with her parents, she would have become utterly corrupted by Ashur's ways, while having a caring and intelligent mother. Both family situations svck somewhat, but she might actually be better off with Midea now.


What I found extremely weird is the fact that you actually lose karma for executing the traitor, Brand. He had survived the slave revolt in my game, since all the armed slaves were killed by the one or two armed raiders, and I felt like providing some street justice, since he hangs around too closely too my armor press for my liking.


Over all, very nice DLC. I haven't touched Broken Steel yet, but so far, I'd rate the Pitt second best of them, right after Point Lookout.

Oh, dancing around with the baby sounds fun!

Yeah, I don't get why I get bad karma for killing a slave who is attacking me.... and I go out of my way to run around so that I don't kill any of them. Except Brand, who deserves it.

My first instinct was to side with Midea. Yes, Midea, not Wernher, who is a creep. Its a kind of Caesar's Legion scenario....would society be better off having removed Ashur/Caesar? Maybe yes, maybe no, but I always side with the slaves over their oppressors. So taking the baby seemed the right thing to do. At the time anyway. :shrug:

The first time I went through it (ok, the first three or so times) I sided against Wernher; not for Ashur. Wernher is such a creep. He needs Mentats to do any research! Also, I couldn't bring myself to take the baby from her mom and I wanted to hang out with Raiders that actually had dialogue and a proper city to hang out in. When I finally got tired of that and decided to side with the slaves, that was a very satisfying way to do it, and I liked being on the good side (slavery is bad) but I don't like the way nothing really changes even though you free them. It was a great disappointment to me.

So does Moira and look what a fine scientist she is :whistling:

Oh! Maybe the mustache is a side effect of too many Mentats!

By that reasoning Flak must go through about three packs a day. :laugh:

I've never understood why some ppl talk about there being a supposed grey area in this DLC with this main quest decision. I don't see one, have never seen one.

The first thing my character sees when he arrives in the slave areas of the city, and the thing he continually sees while he is in there, is slaves being murdered by the raiders that are watching over them. There's the first guy who you watch shoot 3 slaves dead because they are apparently withholding information. Then, in the square that is in front of Midea's house, a raider pushes a slave off of a platform to his death. And it happens over and over again.

These killings are murders, yo! And as the leader and organizer and perpetuator of that situation, Ashur's responsible. It doesn't matter if he knows about the murders or not - if he's going to be an even slight "good-guy", it's his responsibility to know, and to ensure that these evil things don't happen.

In this context, it doesn't matter if the slaves steal, lie, kidnap, exaggurate, or decieve. They, as a class of people, are being murdered daily, by what amounts to a tyrant.

If forced to choose between one of two rigid positions - - I sees the only possible 'good-guy' decision as being to side with the slaves. Have never understood why it's in doubt.

Ever hear of the term "Two wrongs don't make a right?" I believe that applies here.

Just because the raiders and Ashur are committing these atrocious acts in the name of attempting to rebuild a city, doesn't make it okay for Wehrner/Midea to kidnap and/or murder in order to get what they want. I believe that is the morally grey aspect that you are missing.

The name of attempting to rebuild a city is indeed just that - - a name, a claim by him, a bunch of words. The reality is what's on the ground, and in his methods, and in what he's produced.

What exists for real is a slave encampment where one class of people is held captive and continually abused and murdered by another class. The murderers are people whom Ashur empowers and therefore, is responsible for. And this system has been going on for a long time.

I think it is a basic principle of history and human rights that a little war on the part of the victims to get out of a continually-murderous situation (and a couple deaths along the way) is understandable. Also, kidnapping and caring for a baby does not compare with the evil of systematically murdering a trapped and otherwise helpless class of people.

So I still see no grey area at all. Even history doesn't judge against the people who fought to free themselves from tyrants, as long as they succeed. The ones that fail seem to be forgotten about, or, called names which lead people to believe that the conflict was about something else.

Perhaps the grey question mark around this story is - - that it shows how it is possible to get people who are not endeavoring to be evil to support something which is.

I always sided with the baby.

This is how I saw it:

#1- The baby stays with her parents where she'll be treated with loving care by her own parents.

#2- The baby stays with two people who only want to milk the cure from her. They (especially Werner) won't care about the baby as a person. They'll just treat her as a thing they have to keep alive.

How can I condemn a baby to such fate? All for the sins of her parents?

So I turn around and protect her.

Midea wants to help her.

In any case, here's the real question. If the slaves have children - how many babies will suffer and die under Ashur's rule?

Not to worry: they can't. Or they become little Trogs. Or something like that.

I finished it today, after siding wiht Werenr and making myself the next Lord of the Pitt. Seemed to work out allright.

I tried out the ammo press. Took a lot of looking to find it, because the directions given were not clear. The note in the Pipboy from Werner samys something about it "overlooking the Pit". There is an observation deck above the Pit, but no: It's across the Mill from where you report to fight in the Arena. Anyway, I think it says that you can use "raw metal". I tried asorted metal stuff (an Iron I had collected somewhere, some steel ingots, etc.), but they didn't work. Nice device, but I doubt that I will take the time and trouble to travel all the way there simply to make or convert some ammo.