Never played a real PC western RPG in my life.

Didn't install FO1 becuase I hate time limits.

Been playing FO2 and have both combat and game on easy. It's still way too hard. My thrust I have doesn't even work, so I use Strong Punch. I got the second town, K-whatever and I have no idea what to do. I helped a mentally handicapped man watch over cows by killing scorpions. For some reason I have no money at all. I can't barter anything because my stuff is all worthless. After defeating the temple of trials I almost got killed by geckos in the west portion of the town ya start at.

Pros: Setting/Atmosphere. All crumbled down; actually feels like an ancient desert wasteland - but somehow in the future? (can't really explain it but I feel like it's the past and future combined) (hint: Bethesda - make the next one in the desert! Like the first two!)

Cons:
Keep on right clicking to combat mode to look at mode and to walk mode is crap. I understand its an old game, but c'mon!

I keep on missing attacks. I guess it's something to do with the random dice rolls? Well, I keep on shooting snake eyes I guess.

People in the game seem kinda of...uninteresting.

The game is hard as hell.
~~~~~~~

Fallout Tactics is alright, though. I'm not a fan of RTS games though. My brother would love it though.

To address your cons.

You keep right clicking what now? o_O Like any game, controls can be difficult to adjust to. I have to switch around alot of my keyboard config for FO3, much like any other game.

The game gives you a percentage to-hit before you make an attack, this is based on the respective combat skills. Unlike FO3, it's all about your character and his/her capabilities, never your own.

That maybe because you're used to voiced dialogue? Hey, even I skip through dialogue without reading it in the originals, but that's because I've played them countless times (FO2 more than FO1).

Bottom line, it wouldn't surprise me that you find the originals a bit daunting, considering FO3 was your first experience of the series.

You should listen to what people have to say Your town Elder gives you you first clue. Goto Klamath (that's where you're at, with the Tribal you helped, he's not handicapped) to find Vic the trader. You need to talk to people and get the relevant information, or you can travel through infinity without an address, the choice is completely yours

I'd also recommend you play FO1 first. The time limit is nothing, 150 days to complete your first main objective isn't such a mean feat. You should try it. The story of FO2 is a continuation, I think FO1 would be the best place to start for a new starter like yourself.

Yeah, the time limit in FO1 is largely irrelevant - if you at some point do actually find yourself running close to the 150 days, there are ways to increase that limit by another (I think it was 100 or so) days. Without getting into spoilers - that time limit is even only relevant to the first portion of the Main Quest, and it's more than enough time to experience all you need to in the game.

Those are fairly tough and unforgiving games, though. There is a difficulty slider, should you find combat a bit too tough at first. That's often kind of a side-effect of turn-based games, I've found - they are very unforgiving of less-than-ideal choices you make. Personally, I always found it a nice challenge trying to survive the first few levels with a non-combat-oriented character. But to each their own. (Probably also helps that I've played a lot of XCOM over the years - Fallout's a cakewalk compared to Brainsvckers and Aliens that can not only kill one of your team in one turn, but also change said member into a one-hit killer.)

Unlike FO3, you really have to pick your battles in the originals. You're going to find yourself in a lot of situations where you're in over your head if you're not careful. Remember that running away is always a viable combat tactic, for one. Later on in the game, the difficulty curve makes a rather drastic change, as well. While you might find yourself dying every other turn early on, or not having any salvage that anyone's interested in buying - by the end of the game you're pretty much a walking tank with more money than you know what to do with. You just really have to work to get that far is all.

Interface is a bit dated, I suppose. But you do get used to it pretty quickly. If you don't have much experience in turn-based games, the learning curve might be a bit higher with you than with others. I had a friend I tried to introduce the game to, and he just couldn't wrap his brain around why he couldn't move when the enemies were attacking him.

Well this may seem harsh, but I don't mean for it to be.


You need to play the first one, before you play the second one. There are lots of places and story line plots in the second that can ruin the first one for you.
The first one is gonna be easyer to get used to.

The game really is not that hard, I played them for the first time about 4 years ago.

" It's still way too hard. My thrust I have doesn't even work, so I use Strong Punch"

Thats becuase unarmed ( strong punch ) and the spear ( melee weapons ) are two seprate skills, and you most likely have not put any points into them, they are low skill level.
In these games the skill of the PC ( player chracter ) takes front seat to you, that means that your skill level in skill affects how good/bad you are at it.
In other words, if you want to be a sniper you would need good base skills ( AGI/PER ) and a high small guns skill, if those are low you will deal less damage and hit less ofter.
When you raise those skills you will do more damage and hit more often.


"I got the second town, K-whatever and I have no idea what to do."

I am 100% sure that the elder lady, of your tribe tells you to go to Klamath, and to find Vic ( vic the trader ) you need to talk to some people around town, there are even a few quests ( wiskey bob, and the tribal you helped and more ) reading what they say to you, will lead you to the next part.

"For some reason I have no money at all. I can't barter anything because my stuff is all worthless"

Barter and Chrisma affect the prices you get for items, unless you put some points in them, you are going to get less money from the same item.


"After defeating the temple of trials I almost got killed by geckos in the west portion of the town ya start at."

Basicly because your PC is a noob, fresh from his little village, just like if you where in the same spot, your PC will learn and gain XP and level up and become stronger.


"Keep on right clicking to combat mode to look at mode and to walk mode is crap. I understand its an old game, but c'mon! "

As I understand it, games require clicking and there player to do things.
its not that bad, but can take some getting used to, heck look at GOW- one buttons does 50% of the actions on that game, what it does it only affected by where you are.



"I keep on missing attacks. I guess it's something to do with the random dice rolls? Well, I keep on shooting snake eyes I guess. "
you skill in the weapon you are using is low, later on it will get better, this is how a rpg should work, it imvolves thought about what kind(s) of weapons you want to use, and what skills are important to you.

For example I started a sneaky, small guns guy last night.

FO-1

I tagged Fenesse and Gifted.
I picked Small guns,sneak and lock pick as my tag skills.
I plan on putting points into mainly
Small guns
Sneak
lockpick
and some into
doctor/first aid
Science
barter/speech.

"People in the game seem kinda of...uninteresting."

The people in this game have much more to them than the paper thin ones in fallout 3, yes you have to read some, but there is more back story and feeling to most of them.
the story from Fallout 1/2 are much,much better than that of Fo-3.

"The game is hard as hell."
Not really, its has a learning cruve.

"Fallout Tactics is alright, though. I'm not a fan of RTS games though. My brother would love it though."
There is a turnbased option in the menu, that will fix that for you.

Over all, I think you are not giving this game its proper due's, its story is much better, richer,and deeper than most RPG's out there, it will take a while to learn it, it has its little downsides.
It has a learning curve, and requires the player to read what is said, and to think.
These games will not hold your hand, or tell you exaclty what to do, there is no quest arrow.
This makes it ( IMO ) a far better, richer, and deeper game than fallout 3 can ever hope to be.

Fallout 1/2 is to fallout 3
like Morrowind is to Oblivion.

One is harder than the other.
One requires more thought, and won't lead you by the nose.
One is affected only by the PC's skills, the other's are mors based on player skill.
One is more rewarding than the other once you beat it.
One is deeper than the other.

But thats just my take on it, I love fallout 3 and I like Oblivion, but they can not, and will not ever be able to compare to the game before them.

Once you complete the story, it really feels like an accomplishment.

http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html

http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout2.html

Ah, good old times when games were harder. :fallout:

But seriously, Fallout 2's beginning, the Trial part, is indeed very hard if you didn't tag melee and/or unarmed (which is normal). You'll develop in time. And the geckos, well... random encounters are random encounters are random encounters are random. Especially if you hit west when you're told that "Klamaaath is to the eaaasssst."

Don't give up, give them a chance.

And about the difficult controls, Arcanum, another RPG with a totally different setting, made by Troika Games (remnants of Black Isle) uses a similar gameplay system but it's much less of a tedious grind to play, with much better controls and inventory management. With instant real time /turn based toggle etc. I wish there was an Arcanum-ish Fallout, but it's too late now.

I second the notion that you should start with Fallout 1. If the only reason you don't want to play it is because of the time limit, then you are really overlooking an incredibly fun game. Plus, the beginning of FO1 is infinitely easier than FO2 (as in you actually start with real supplies). The game-play from FO1 to FO2 really builds on itself. I personally like FO1 better because of the storyline and the narrative weight of your decisions

Wow. That is the first time I have ever seen anyone recommend Arcanum based on its combat, controls, and character management systems. (Which, collectively, are among the most broken game mechanics I have ever witnessed.) Arcanum was an interesting game in theory, and a terrible game in execution. FO's interface is a bit more antiquated, sure, but the payoff in terms of interesting characters/quests/writing is much greater. (And I'm not so certain that Arc has the advantage you indicate in the "tedious grind" area, either.)

Technically Fallout 2 has a time limit also (sort of), as in Hakunin's http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Hakunin_dreams

The Fallouts are hard? I wonder what the first poster would think of XCom or Jagged Aliance 2.

I still have nightmares of those night missions with the Chrysalids. Bleh. Fallout 1 and 2 are not hard at all. Just think a bit and all's fine.

Mm?

Of course Fallout's quests, writing and overall design is FAR superior to it. What I liked in Arcanum was miscellaneous minor stuff. Combine these (like grid inventory, full towns without invisible walls and real time combat toggle) to everything else in FO1&2, and it could even be THE perfect game. And Arcanum was a bit easier on the player because of these details. Not the overall game.

Sorry for the confusion.

So I should install FO1? Fine...I'll give it a go then. For the record, my FO2's stats are:

S 8
P 6
E 5
C 4
I 8
A 6
L 3

my "skilldex" says:

Sneak: 43
Lockpick: 42
Steal: 38
Traps: 42
First Aid: 68
Doctor: 39
Science: 52
Repair: 53

I have no idea but doesn't all of that seem a bit skilled for a level 2 player? Unless they go up to like 600? I already have 68 (out of 100?) first aid already at level 2? I didn't get 68% first aid in FO3 until like level 19!

So will FO1 really be easier for me? un-withstanding the time limit?

I saw traveling to the 2nd town, it fast travels on the map and says "you have encountered blah blah blah.Do you want to fight?" or whatever.I'm just paraphrasing. First time I played it, I got the 2nd square before kalamath or whatever and a group of monks saying I'm against God or something came, surrounded me and killed me with thrusts. I tried to use mine, but I died.

God...I feel like such a damn noob. Never playing a real full-on RPG American-made RPG. Well America's like that. Persistent and tough hardasses! God bless em!

I am going to write in your post in bold some.





The special system really does affect the game in 1/2 unlike 3, try a Int 1 toon, and you will see what I mean.
It does not matter how good you are at shooting, only how good your PC is.

I'm hoping for a Mac release. Can't play my MacPlay version after moving to Leopard.

Bootcamp?

Also, how come theres no VATS? Or is that just a FO3 thing?

Skills have a higher cap in the originals. The primary reason is for overcoming penalties, such as Armor, Range, Darkness, etc. And keep in mind your Tagged skills grow at twice the rate.

You can make targetted shots (unless you picked... Fast Shot, I think it was?) in the original games. Click on your weapon icon down on your status bar (the big picture of the weapon you're wielding) and it will change to the different types of attacks you can make. Aimed shots generally cost 1 more AP than a regular un-aimed shot, so there's a trade-off on the chance to do some critical damage to a limb versus using that extra AP for something else. (ie, if you have 6 AP and a weapon that costs 3 AP to fire - you can make two regular attacks or one aimed shot and have some extra AP leftover.)

Other than that, it works pretty much like VATS does, showing you the %chance you'll hit the selected location, etc. Rather than each limb having it's own damage threshold, however, you rely on critical hits to cause crippling damage to a limb.

[quote name='Enclaves Shadow' post='14285432' date='May 7 2009, 09:21 PM']I have no idea but doesn't all of that seem a bit skilled for a level 2 player? Unless they go up to like 600? I already have 68 (out of 100?) first aid already at level 2? I didn't get 68% first aid in FO3 until like level 19![/quote]Skills go upto 200% in F01, 1 skill point always amounts to a 1% increase, and 2% on a tag. In FO2 skills go upto 300% and as you cross the 100% theshold it takes 2 skill points for a 1% increase, and on and on until you're trading off about 6 skill points for 1% increase. You rarely need to do that though, which is a shame, because it has the makings of a great mastery system.

They were planning to remove the "%" for Van Buren, because quite simply, it never made any sense

[quote name='Enclaves Shadow' post='14285432' date='May 7 2009, 09:21 PM']So will FO1 really be easier for me? un-withstanding the time limit?[/quote]'Easier' in terms of grasping the game concepts and getting an idea of what the originals offer, it's the most 'genuine' of the two, though I prefer FO2. But you'll appreciate the improvments in FO2s interface etc if you play FO1 first, I feel.

[quote name='Enclaves Shadow' post='14285432' date='May 7 2009, 09:21 PM']I saw traveling to the 2nd town, it fast travels on the map and says "you have encountered blah blah blah.Do you want to fight?" or whatever.I'm just paraphrasing. First time I played it, I got the 2nd square before kalamath or whatever and a group of monks saying I'm against God or something came, surrounded me and killed me with thrusts. I tried to use mine, but I died.[/quote]The "you have encountered..." message means you made a successful outdoorsman skill roll. Unfortunately this doesn't apply in FO1, but outdoorsman still affects your world map encounters, even if it doesn't let you 'pick and choose'.

[quote name='Enclaves Shadow' post='14285432' date='May 7 2009, 09:21 PM']God...I feel like such a damn noob. Never playing a real full-on RPG American-made RPG. Well America's like that. Persistent and tough hardasses! God bless em![/quote]Well the original Fallout's are fairly unique in their own respect. They definitely broke a mould, much to the appreciation of their fanbase.
Fast Shot is indeed the target killer. Another point about targetting limbs, is that it doesn't increase the base damage of the attack, shooting someone in the eyes will do just as much damage as a generic unaimed shot. The advantage of aiming is increased critical chance, and then based on the part you shot, depends how likely you are to roll a certain critical, there are many different types of critical, and not all of them result in 'double damage' or whatever. For instance, most groin criticals result in bypassing damage resistance. Head and eyes are more likely to be insta-kills. But generally, as nu_clear_day mentioned, the critical will increase the chance of a crippling affect on that particular limb.

On rough setting, enemies take alot more aimed attacks. It makes for a completely different experience than even normal difficulty setting.

Today RPGs are reduced to clicking on monsters, watch the monster fall dead, rinse and repeat until the next dialogue or cutscene. In 'oldies' like Might & Magic, Wizardry or Realms of Arkania you had to use your entire party and a decent strategy to even beat rats. Even Baldur's Gate was brutal in teh early levels - when you walked to the wrong part of the map you could get ripped apart by dire wolves before you even knew what was happening.

Ah, the good times.

There is a mac version, but it's unplayable in leopard (graphical issues.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7wUCeHmWII&feature=PlayList&p=18E3713E40EC6567&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1 at about 2 minute mark he talks to the eldar she clearly tells you want to look for in kalamith.

As to above, indeed, you are told to go see vic at Kalamath.

But a trend I see here (as someone who only played FO2 once, and quit because those damn aliens in SF threw me for a loop. Sure, they only did 5 hp a hit, and I had 300, but there were 8 of them, and they each got like 5 attacks a piece...blargh).

ANYWAY, my point is that those of you who have played the first and second one multiple times a piece, you know what you're doing. For a noob, it's not a learning CURVE, it's a brick wall. First, you have to pick SPECIAL, skills, and a few perks. It's easy when you know what's useful and what isn't, but without help, it's real easy to gimp a character. FO3 has a similiar issue, in that luck, and to a lesser extent, charisma, is pretty much worthless; as such, you can add a lot more points to other things if you drop those down.

Oh, and I have played X-Com, and I wasn't interested in playing it much because of difficulty. Yes, I do remember fondly games that were actually hard, BUT games like this were hard and had little to no means of training a player as to what was going on. Case in point - my first PC had low intelligence...boy, do I regret that decision.

Oddly enough, this makes me want to play the game again, I just need to find something that gives me some advice for character creation.

Luck is the only important SPECIAL next to Intelligence, what do you mean? Critical Chance is a huge deal.

I wasn't born with the knowledge of how to play Fallout. And it was the first (still is) game like it I had ever played. We were all beginners once. Are you saying the majority of gamers are that stupid? Fallout has a wider learning curve than most mainstream games for sure, but that doesn't make the curve itself that daunting.