just got FO:NV, need some advice on the difficulty i should : Fallout: New Vegas

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:39 pm

The thing is that roleplaying in Fallout 3 is extremely limited.

Interesting. let's see ow this will play out...

You are born in Vault 101, you are shown how you have grown up, you are told that you are 19 years old,

Okay, you have a point with the part about having to be 19 years old, but this is just character creation. In ass effect you pick your origin story, but it doesn't really matter. In Dragon Age the origin story you choose plays a minor role, but you are really just choosing what race/class you want. Are those less RPGs for it? I don't think so. So why is it bad that FO3 does the same thing? I actually kind of feel lost in New Vegas without a back story. Seriously... I am only in Nevada because of a job. I was jumped and shot in the face. I don't think I want to stay here any longer than I have to... how do I get back home? Oh, I guess I am seeking revenge or answers?

you have to go after your father no matter how you feel him about him, you have to help the Brotherhood, you have to destroy the Enclave and you have to activate the rad filled purifier yourself even though you can have a robot, super mutant and a ghoul as companions.

Actually, I "only" have to do that if I want to play the main quest. I can also not care about dad and stumble upon him by pure chance and still ignore the rest of the main quest and enjoy a very interesting game. In New Vegas you are pretty much railroaded in one direction even if you aren't doing it for the main quest... and you can't go home.

In Fallout 3 you were pushed out the door and told to survive in the wasteland. Things are different in New Vegas. Why would I even leave Good Springs? Seems like a nice place. I can help out and settle here. Maybe one day while traveling south to get supplies from Prim I found out the place was overrun by powder gangers and yadda yadda yadda. Meanwhile the main plot is on hold for what ever reason until I get there, which is fine. In FO3 we know where dad is and why he is where he is... or after we find him where he will go and why he will be there. Both games main quests can be ignored, but New Vegas's can't be ignored nearly as easily. As someone else said in another thread... getting to the Stip is like one LONG tutorial. That i when the real game starts. That is when you are finaly given some freedom.

In New Vegas you get a great story(better then Fallout 3's), very good writing, a more realistic setting, more interesting and deeper characters,

That is all purely debatable opinion. I prefer saving the wasteland over some childish fight over a damn. Don't even start with realistic setting. lol.

every single quest has at least one choice in it sometimes more, 5 different ending paths with hundreds of end slide possibilities and a blank slate to roleplay with. You are the Courier and what do you know about him/her? S/he was delivering a Platinum Chip to Mr. House, s/he traveled from California and s/he got shot in the head and robbed. That is a blank slate with nearly endless roleplaying possibilities.

There are 4 different ending in FO. You do it, you let the girl do it, you sabotage the plan, or you do nothing. New Vegas have 4 endings that I am aware of. Mr. house, NCR, Caesar salad, or you are in charge in the end. Both games are filled with tons of side quests and areas to explore, but FO3 is far less restrictive on where you can go.

Both games are just as open in you options on what kind of person to play as. As with any RPG you are given a situation and asked "What would your character do?"

I'm just not getting what you think Fallout 3 does better then New Vegas.

The subject of the thread was difficulty level, and that's what made me reply in the first place. I played Fallout 3 on normal difficulty and never thought about it. I leveled up my guns, explored, killed things and role played. It was fun. I love that game. It is one of my all time favorites. It is why I bought New Vegas on release day.

When I put New Vegas in I was excited, I lived with the bugs and played. By the time I got to around level 8 or so and to Nipton, I was running into bad guys that wouldn't die in a reasonable amount of time. Sure ,the rad scorpion didn't both me so much, they are giant rad scorpions... but the morons in football pads? really? Take a bullet to the head and Please continue, my good sir.. Okay... this is an RPG, there is HP and damage and so forth. I'll just level my guns up to, wait I'm at 100. Well, I will get the strongest gun available to me right now. Wait, I already have it. then what's the problem? Oh I guess the developers don't want me to kill these people, or at least not right now. Fine, let's keep playing.

Okay, now I am doing some main quest stuff and am like level 13 or 14 or something... and what am I doing again? Why am I doing it? I don't know. I have a bunch of money and gear now. What's my motivation?

In Dragon Age I am saving the world from the blight. In Mass Effect I am unraveling an interesting plot and saving the known universe. In Fallout 3 I am trying to survive in the wasteland and I might try to help Liam Neeson save the world. In New Vegas I feel like a middle man in someone else's game unless I want to troll everyone. I also don't need to worry about survival in New Vegas. I have all the money and supplies I could ever need. I have places I can stay. What's the big deal? Fallout 3 has a ton of terrible places where people are trying to scratch out a life and survive day to day while New Vegas has established communities.

I don't like to derail a conversation/topic, but you asked and I feel strongly about it. I WANT to play this game and am trying to look for any reason to, but every time I do, I end up turning it off and am never have the desire to turn it back on. When I played FO3, I would think about that game on my way home from work. When I play New Vegas I feel like I am doing chores because I have no direction. The game hasn't made me care about it... so I don't.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to dump points into speech when there are like 9 places in the entire game where I would actually use it... at most.

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:09 am

Or... long story short:

I play on Easy mode because I don't enjoy the combat and I just want to enjoy the story... only to find that I am easy bored by the story as well. There are great characters and there is great dialog, but seriously, why should I care about them or their problems? Why am I adventuring? Why am I still in Nevada? California is right there. I only came here on a job, and that job is over.

» Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am

I will start this off by saying that I really enjoyed Fallout 3 and I was just defending New Vegas which I still feel is the superior game. I apologize for the long thread.

1. Okay, you have a point with the part about having to be 19 years old, but this is just character creation. In ass effect you pick your origin story, but it doesn't really matter. In Dragon Age the origin story you choose plays a minor role, but you are really just choosing what race/class you want. Are those less RPGs for it? I don't think so. So why is it bad that FO3 does the same thing? I actually kind of feel lost in New Vegas without a back story. Seriously... I am only in Nevada because of a job. I was jumped and shot in the face. I don't think I want to stay here any longer than I have to... how do I get back home? Oh, I guess I am seeking revenge or answers?

2. Actually, I "only" have to do that if I want to play the main quest. I can also not care about dad and stumble upon him by pure chance and still ignore the rest of the main quest and enjoy a very interesting game. In New Vegas you are pretty much railroaded in one direction even if you aren't doing it for the main quest... and you can't go home.

3. In Fallout 3 you were pushed out the door and told to survive in the wasteland. Things are different in New Vegas. Why would I even leave Good Springs? Seems like a nice place. I can help out and settle here. Maybe one day while traveling south to get supplies from Prim I found out the place was overrun by powder gangers and yadda yadda yadda. Meanwhile the main plot is on hold for what ever reason until I get there, which is fine. In FO3 we know where dad is and why he is where he is... or after we find him where he will go and why he will be there. Both games main quests can be ignored, but New Vegas's can't be ignored nearly as easily. As someone else said in another thread... getting to the Stip is like one LONG tutorial. That i when the real game starts. That is when you are finaly given some freedom.

4. That is all purely debatable opinion. I prefer saving the wasteland over some childish fight over a damn. Don't even start with realistic setting. lol.

5. There are 4 different ending in FO. You do it, you let the girl do it, you sabotage the plan, or you do nothing. New Vegas have 4 endings that I am aware of. Mr. house, NCR, Caesar salad, or you are in charge in the end. Both games are filled with tons of side quests and areas to explore, but FO3 is far less restrictive on where you can go.

6. Both games are just as open in you options on what kind of person to play as. As with any RPG you are given a situation and asked "What would your character do?"

7. The subject of the thread was difficulty level, and that's what made me reply in the first place. I played Fallout 3 on normal difficulty and never thought about it. I leveled up my guns, explored, killed things and role played. It was fun. I love that game. It is one of my all time favorites. It is why I bought New Vegas on release day.

8. When I put New Vegas in I was excited, I lived with the bugs and played. By the time I got to around level 8 or so and to Nipton, I was running into bad guys that wouldn't die in a reasonable amount of time. Sure ,the rad scorpion didn't both me so much, they are giant rad scorpions... but the morons in football pads? really? Take a bullet to the head and Please continue, my good sir.. Okay... this is an RPG, there is HP and damage and so forth. I'll just level my guns up to, wait I'm at 100. Well, I will get the strongest gun available to me right now. Wait, I already have it. then what's the problem? Oh I guess the developers don't want me to kill these people, or at least not right now. Fine, let's keep playing.

9. Okay, now I am doing some main quest stuff and am like level 13 or 14 or something... and what am I doing again? Why am I doing it? I don't know. I have a bunch of money and gear now. What's my motivation?

10. In Dragon Age I am saving the world from the blight. In Mass Effect I am unraveling an interesting plot and saving the known universe. In Fallout 3 I am trying to survive in the wasteland and I might try to help Liam Neeson save the world. In New Vegas I feel like a middle man in someone else's game unless I want to troll everyone. I also don't need to worry about survival in New Vegas. I have all the money and supplies I could ever need. I have places I can stay. What's the big deal? Fallout 3 has a ton of terrible places where people are trying to scratch out a life and survive day to day while New Vegas has established communities.

11. I don't like to derail a conversation/topic, but you asked and I feel strongly about it. I WANT to play this game and am trying to look for any reason to, but every time I do, I end up turning it off and am never have the desire to turn it back on. When I played FO3, I would think about that game on my way home from work. When I play New Vegas I feel like I am doing chores because I have no direction. The game hasn't made me care about it... so I don't.

12. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to dump points into speech when there are like 9 places in the entire game where I would actually use it... at most.

Spoiler

1. In Mass Effect and Dragon Age you are given multiple choices to tweak the story. In Mass Effect you play as Commander Shepard, but s/he is also largely a blank slate(not as much as the Courier though). You can choose Shepard's choices along the way to make a different character and story every playthrough. This is done even more so in Dragon Age because you also get multiple origins stories to choose from. You can still roleplay in these games, less so in Mass Effect though since you are Commander Shepard.
Fallout 3 does not do the same thing. In Fallout 3 you have the one tutorial/origin story that will tell you what your character is and thus remove your ability to roleplay without completely ignoring the first ten minutes of the game. You can't roleplay as an old tracker from Arizona or as a Talon Company merc because the game doesn't allow this.

2. You could completely ignore the main quest of Fallout 3, but that doesn't change the fact that you are a 19 year old kid who left the Vault he grew up because of his/her father. If you do choose to complete the main quest of the game you are forced to do all the things I have mentioned.
You are never railroaded anywhere in New Vegas. I see this term on here sometimes and its always from people who aren't experienced with this game(no offense). You can go north and either sneak or fight your way past the Cazadores, you can sneak your way past the Deathclaws past Sloan and skip a good portion of the main quest. You can go straight to New Vegas at any time and confront Benny or you could completely ignore the story and set off east into the Mojave. The main quest suggest you go south because that is where the people of Goodsprings say Benny went. It is also a way for new players to get their bearings and learn about the game. I've fought my way past the Cazadores with some Dynamite and 9mm SMG within 20 minutes of leaving Doc Mitchell's house.

3. Fallout 3 is not an RPG, its an adventure game with a linear story. In New Vegas its completely your choice on what you want to do as soon as you step out of Doc Mitchell's house. The point of this game is not to place your own personality on the character(which you can do if you want), its to roleplay as anyone you want. The first time I played I made the choices I wanted to make and followed the main quest south and really enjoyed myself. A while ago I did a playthrough as a clone of Mr. House with his SPECIAL and tag skills, I made choices I thought he would make, used weapons as little as possible and focused on building up my Speech, Science and Barter skills. I had a lot of fun with that playthrough and you couldn't do something like that in Fallout 3. Also the reason why the plot is on hold is because you need to get to the location before you can here the story.
I guess the journey south is a tutorial of sorts and just like New Vegas' actual tutorial it can be skipped, unlike Fallout 3's.

4. This is my opinion, I guessed yours would be different. I can't really understand how you could call the conflict over the Hoover Dam childish, the political implications on the wasteland are simply amazingly handled in New Vegas. In Fallout 3 your father doesn't really make good decisions along the way and does some childish things like thinking everything will be normal in the Vault when he leaves it and killing himself just because the Enclave want the purifier.
Fallout 3 was a theme park, it had lots of unrealistic attractions that were put in there solely to draw your attention and make us ooh and aww. It also made no sense on both sides of the post apocalyptic scale. It had been 200 years since the bombs fell and it still looks like it happened a couple decades ago. On the other end of the scale, Washington itself is way too intact to have survived the amount of nuclear missiles that must have been aimed at it.
In New Vegas you can see that people have actually been rebuilding and view the Great War as ancient history. Before you say anything about New Vegas being intact, there is a reason given for that.

5. Those aren't very profound ending choices in Fallout 3, who pushes the button and how you push it. The only way you can do nothing in the main quest is if you ignore it completely. It is simply bad writing on Bethesda's part that you can't send in Fawkes, RL-3 or Charon. In New Vegas you are choosing who will control the Mojave and how ell they will control it. New Vegas has five different people who can control the Mojave

Spoiler

Mr. House, NCR, Caesar's Legion, Legate Lanius and You/Yesman

Fallout 3 may be a bit less restrictive on where you can go, but only because it has that stupid level scaling system for the enemies. In New Vegas a Deathclaw has the same strength no matter what level you are, which I personally think makes it more rewarding when you become powerful enough to not fear them.

6. Actually that's the premise of every game ever made. RPG's are about roleplaying your own character in a world filled with choices. Fallout 3, as I said earlier, is not an RPG.

7. Fallout 3 is also the reason why I bought New Vegas on the day it came out. New Vegas combined with the originals made me realize what was wrong with Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, Fallout 3 is still a great game.

8. I've killed those same Legionnaires with about 50 Guns skill and a Cowboy Repeater on Normal difficulty. The only character the developers actually made invincible is Yesman.

9. Roleplay as someone else, look at the conflict in the wasteland and decide who you think deserves your support.

10. In Fallout 3 you are first looking for your father and then you help save the wasteland, not the world. I've already stated why Fallout 3 is unrealistic and New Vegas isn't. After 200 years people would have moved on and begin to establish communities.
In New Vegas you can decide who gains control of the Mojave and how well they will control it.

11. I really don't like derailing conversations, but I felt the need to respond.
I do the exact opposite. New Vegas is the one that makes me think and question the morality of certain actions, it is also the one that didn't try to earn my affection and yet it gained it.

12. If you honestly believe that then you haven't been playing long or spoken to a lot of people.
The total amount of Speech checks in Fallout: New Vegas:

Spoiler

15, 30 and 45 Speech in lieu of Benny's evidence to convince Swank to give you your weapons back at The Tops for the confrontation with Benny.
20 Speech to get Joe Cobb to tell you what he did to land himself in prison.
25 Speech to convince Trudy to join the fight in Ghost Town Gunfight.
25 Speech to convince Chet to supply you for the fight with the powder gangers in Run Goodsprings Run.
25, 50 and 75 Speech to trick Karl into losing his cool in front of Papa Khan during the quest Oh My Papa.
25 Speech to convince Deputy Beagle in Primm to stay and fight with you after you release him.
25 Speech to convince Angela Williams to tell the character her opinion about Thomas Hildern.
25 Speech to convince Private Ortega to tell you about the "ungrateful" farmers at the NCR Sharecropper Farms.
30 Speech or 30 Medicine to convince Doc Mitchell to give you three stimpaks before initially leaving his house. Passing both will result in five stimpaks rather than six, Speech will always be the second choice (worth 2).
30 Speech to convince Chavez to move on in I Fought the Law.
30 Speech to convince Comm Officer Lenk to share her story.
30 Speech or 6 Intelligence to convince the suspicious merchant at Jean Sky Diving to reveal himself for I Fought the Law.
30 Speech to convince Johnson Nash to give up information for I Fought the Law for free.
30 Speech or pay 200 caps to convince Major Knight at the Mojave Outpost to pardon Meyers for the questMy Kind of Town.
30 Speech to convince Mick to sell you weapons at Mick and Ralph's.
35 Speech to convince Milo to start the mission Back in Your Own Backyard.
35 Speech to convince Haggerty to allow you into HELIOS One.
40 Speech to convince Deputy Beagle in Primm to give you the information before you release him.
40 Speech to convince each of the Misfits to be more of a "team player" in Flags of Our Foul-Ups.
40 Speech to convince Jane in Freeside to give something else of value towards her debt in quest Debt Collector.
40 Speech to convince Thomas Hildern to improve the offered reward in There Stands the Grass. (available after talking to Dr. Williams and returning to confront Hildern)
41 Speech to convince Boone to tell you who he's on the lookout for.
45 Speech to convince Jessup to release the hostages in Boulder City.
50 Speech to convince Neil to help you kill Tabitha in Crazy, Crazy, Crazy.
50 Speech to convince Tomas to get rid of his necklace.
50 Speech to convince Joana you have what it takes to have six with her, which follows into another speech challenge of 75 in order for her to lead you to her room and commit the deed.
50 Speech or the Black Widow perk to convince Chris Haversam that he's human in Come Fly With Me.
50 Speech to obtain thrust controllers for 250 caps from Old Lady Gibson for Come Fly With Me.
50 Speech to convince Ralph to craft you a counterfeit passport for The Strip at a cost of 500 caps.
50 Speech to get away with killing Caesar with the autodoc during Et Tumor, Brute? (as an alternative to 50Medicine or positive Legion reputation)
55 Speech to get the Think tanks to realize that you are aware of their conversation.
60 Speech to convince Keith to show you how he's cheating at Caravan.
60 Speech to convince Pacer to let you see the King for free.
60 Speech to convince Private Stone to turn himself in during the Medical Mystery quest.
60 Speech to convince Benny to head immediately to The Tops Presidential Suite without his bodyguards.
60 Speech to lie and convince Private Edwards to leave the Camp searchlight house he is holding out in by saying that all the radscorpions are gone.
62 Speech to convince Mortimer to choose the cannibal side in Beyond the Beef.
64 Speech to convince all Fiends inside of Vault 3 so they will not attack you.
65 Speech to convince the gambler to a weapons check while guarding the front of the Silver Rush duringBirds of a Feather.
65 Speech to convince Norton outside of Jacobstown to leave the mutants alone in the quest Unfriendly Persuasion
65 Speech to ask Dog/God "Why did you put emphasis on the word "Master" before?" after freeing him from the jail. Dead Money
66 Speech to convince Jack in the Red Rock Drug Lab to make medicinal chems.
75 Speech to make Dog let God take over in the Dead Money DLC quest Put the Beast Down. (This can only be done if you convinced God to come out of the cage in the quest Find Collar 8: "Dog".
75 Speech to convince the Strange Man during the Birds of a Feather quest to pay you for running chems.
75 Speech or the Confirmed Bachelor perk to convince Arcade Gannon to be your companion.
75 Speech to convince Alice McLafferty to give Janet her wages.
75 Speech to cause Tabitha to order the nightkin under her command to attack the super mutants at Black Mountain when activating a radio during Crazy, Crazy, Crazy.
80 Speech to convince Keene for not taking the Stealth Boy Mk2 in the quest Guess Who I Saw Today.
80 Speech to convince Isaac that the Gun Runners can use refurbished weapons while Dealing with Contreras.
80 Speech to convince Orion Moreno to stay with the Remnants and fight for the NCR during the quest For Auld Lang Syne.
80 Speech or good Karma to convince Legate Lanius to fight you one-on-one.
80 Speech in order to convince Hector to tell you what he knows about Corporal White during the quest The White Wash.
85 Speech to avoid combat at the conclusion of Bye Bye Love by convincing your pursuers that Joana's escape is part of a secret deal between Carlitos and the Omertas.
85 Speech to say Dog/God "You want to protect Dog..." after freeing him from the jail. Dead Money
85 Speech to convince Dog/God to merge personalities in the Dead Money DLC quest Put the Beast Down.
95 Speech to talk your way out of combat after bringing back the objective in I Could Make You Care and then leaving the Brotherhood of Steel base.
100 Speech to convince Lee Oliver to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you during the quest Veni, Vidi, Vici.
100 Speech to convince Legate Lanius to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you.

If you don't feel interested in New Vegas thus far then you probably won't gain any by playing it again. Have fun in the Capital. :tops:

» Thu May 10, 2012 1:53 am

Speech

Spoiler

I am not even going to address Speech challenges under 40 points. Anyone can do those with a combination of a magazine and some clothes if they want to. Also, none of them are all that impressive at all... nor should they be. Also, I don't know which of these are DLC, but I know that some are and you didn't separate them. You also mixed in Barter challenges to make the list look longer. As I said before, it's funny that there are [censored] speech challenges, but I am not interested in them... at least not until I make a [censored] character.

45 Speech to convince Jessup to release the hostages in Boulder City.
50 Speech to convince Neil to help you kill Tabitha in Crazy, Crazy, Crazy.
50 Speech or the Black Widow perk to convince Chris Haversam that he's human in Come Fly With Me.
50 Speech to get away with killing Caesar with the autodoc during Et Tumor, Brute? (as an alternative to 50Medicine or positive Legion reputation)
55 Speech to get the Think tanks to realize that you are aware of their conversation.
60 Speech to convince Keith to show you how he's cheating at Caravan.
60 Speech to convince Private Stone to turn himself in during the Medical Mystery quest.
64 Speech to convince all Fiends inside of Vault 3 so they will not attack you.
65 Speech to convince Norton outside of Jacobstown to leave the mutants alone in the quest Unfriendly Persuasion
75 Speech to convince Alice McLafferty to give Janet her wages.
75 Speech to cause Tabitha to order the nightkin under her command to attack the super mutants at Black Mountain when activating a radio during Crazy, Crazy, Crazy.
80 Speech to convince Keene for not taking the Stealth Boy Mk2 in the quest Guess Who I Saw Today.
80 Speech to convince Isaac that the Gun Runners can use refurbished weapons while Dealing with Contreras.
80 Speech to convince Orion Moreno to stay with the Remnants and fight for the NCR during the quest For Auld Lang Syne.
80 Speech in order to convince Hector to tell you what he knows about Corporal White during the quest The White Wash.
85 Speech to avoid combat at the conclusion of Bye Bye Love by convincing your pursuers that Joana's escape is part of a secret deal between Carlitos and the Omertas.
95 Speech to talk your way out of combat after bringing back the objective in I Could Make You Care and then leaving the Brotherhood of Steel base.
100 Speech to convince Lee Oliver to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you during the quest Veni, Vidi, Vici.
100 Speech to convince Legate Lanius to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you.

That is 19 challenges that even sound interesting, and I would use even less. I was exaggerating a little when I said only 6... but not by much. I used speech a LOT more in FO3.

Everything else

Spoiler

Mass Effect is linear. Don't pretend it isn't. You have one option, save the universe. That's it. You play the tutorial/introduction, go to the citadel, visit three plants that move the plot forward, visit a 4th planet that is only half disguised as a side quest. At this point there are no role playing choices that effect the game. On this 4th plant you make two choices that have a minor effect on the game. Does Rex live or Die? Do you let Karth or the Pink Power ranger die? Now it's time to go back to the citadel and be Captain Kirk just in time for he epic climactic battle. Finally do you give the order to attack or stay back and save the council? That's it. Everything else is just a bunch of "are you a jerk/neutral/good guy?" questions.

Dragon Age is very linear as well. There are a few origin stories but they don't really matter at all. All that matters is that you pick your race and class. Unless you pick elf, no one cares, and even then they only care a little. You become a Grey Warden Specter General Jedi of awesomeness and a plot twist happens leaving you and Alistair alone. You have to get the armies of Fereldon on your side by doing mini quests for each of them and then it's time for the end game. About the only choice, if you can call it that is to mess with the urn of sacred ashes. You also get to choose who finishes off the Arch Demon Dragon. None of the other choices matter. That doesn't mean they aren't fun, but they don't matter.

There is nothing wrong with a linear RPG. Fallout 3 limits your background story to a 19 year old Boy/Girl who was raised in a vault, but you decide who that character is, what he or she does and why he or she does it. Just like with those other games. A big difference being that you can ignore that the main quest is even there... and you can intentionally stumble on it when ever you want and it will make sense. For example, while sauaging I stumbled upon the Vault dad is in and saved him. I can choose to follow him or let him go on his way and forget about him until later. Speaking about later... I was in Rivet City and guess who I ran into? My dad arguing with Madison over something. At this point I thought i would help dad out. Maybe I could get something out of it... OH CRAP! ... ... okay, we are safe now. I'm out of here... or I can be a hero and find the GEICO gecko. no it' time for the end game. That is way less linear than the other two games mentioned.

In Dragon Age and Mass Effect you are pulled off the main quest by side quests if you ant, but you have to main quest and there is nothing wrong with that. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas you don't have to main quest much at all if you don't want, but in New Vegas you are railroaded more thanks to geography and leveled dangers. There are positives and negatives of both systems. Namely, people don't like to feel railroaded in a sand box world despite what ever spin you want to put on it. I understand both sides and agree with both in different ways.

When it comes to New Vegas there are some main quest options, but it is jut as linear. You eventually find your way to New Vegas, deal with Benny in one way or another and retrieve the chip, play with some factions and decide who controls New Vegas. I am sure there are various little twists here and there but as far as I have gotten I didn't see any that stood out to me as interesting. Go play with the factions... why? Why should I care about any of this mess? In how many hours of game play you haven't given me a reason. An army of toy robots that I won't even be around to control isn't much of an incentive. I'm gonna go explore some vaults. I'll be back latter... speaking of latter, what was I doing again?

"Actually that's the premise of every game ever made. RPG's are about roleplaying your own character in a world filled with choices. Fallout 3, as I said earlier, is not an RPG." Not really, and just because you said that it isn't an RPG doesn't make it true. Anytime you take on a role of another character, you are role playing. A RPG isn't just a game where you get to pick the character. Final fantasy games are JRPGs, but they are still RPGs. You don' get to create the characters at all in those, and they are still considered RPGs. you get very little choices at all in those games, but they are still RPGs. Earthbound, Breath of Fire, Dragon Warrior and other classics all come to mind. All with per-generated characters and a linear story.

Also, in Fallout 3, creating a Giant Purina Water filter is a big step in saving the world. If they can get it to work in the wasteland... they might be able to get it to work else where. Who knows what kind of an impact the GECK may have on the wastes? However, thanks to a good play through of Fallout 3, the world may very well be on the way to brighter future. The closest that NV sounds to an ending like that is with Mr. House.

Tom arrow I think I will try to start a new character on Easy mode just to get though this story. However, I am afraid the same thing is going to happen again. Seriously... it's Nevada. A bomb might have improved the place. Searching the ruins of DC for the declaration of independence before I even got to Rivet City is what it was all about.

» Wed May 09, 2012 7:49 pm

yourmom=my brother and pgaither84 explained it way better than i did. i love the game for the rpg and character building, not for what others state.. bullet sponge.

no matter where you go, up pops an enemy you have to kill! at least in skyrim, i shoot someone in the head, they die. i can explore the skyrim world and not constantly battle. and if i do, my skills have been allocated that it is a good battle.

in fallout bangbangbangbangbangbangbang and so on.

flaming someone for the way they like to play a game shows how much you dont understand anything! i paid my $ just like any hard core or mad skillz preaching wannabe's.

The only reason an enemy would be a "bullet sponge" is because it's either a higher level than you or your using the wrong weapon against a certain type of enemy. Go play Skyrim, it holds your hand through the entire game. It's easy even on its hardest setting. I bet you can't even explain Damage Threshold to me without looking it up and copy and pasting it.

You say you like the game for character building. If you built your character right not every enemy would be a "bullet sponge".

» Wed May 09, 2012 3:08 pm

I love that attitude.

I got this game on release day. I built a character around using Guns. I was around level 12 or something with 100 guns skill and had the .357 cowboy repeater thingy. I find myself up agaisnt some cears leigon elite soilders who, according to vats, would take an eniter clip to the head and not even be 1/3 of the way dead... for one of them. Really? Really really?!? Idiots in football pads can run around just fine with a face litterally full of led and not care?

Oh, but that is teh funz! Oh you are so moar hard corz than me cuz you play on very hard!

I'm sorry but at some point "difficulty" crosses the entertainment line.

I quit playing the game, not because of that, but it did have an impact on my decison. I want to come back to playing the game, but threads liek this remind me of one of the reasons I stopped enjoying the game.

I want to play the game on Easy mode just so I'm not bored of the combat. Shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot... okay one enemy dead. three more to go.

I want to enjoy the story and have the action be a part of the story telling, not something that bogs the game play down... then again from what I have experiecned so far and what I have read, the story isn't that good either. Maybe they made the game play so needlessly difficult to keep you playing longer.

I think this is a great review of the game, but that might be becasue I found myself saying muh of the same thing to my friends before I saw it... only not nearly as humorusly as this guy:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2435-Fallout-New-Vegas

Wow, you obviously do t understand the combat mechanics at all. The guy in the video gives me a good example of how some people don't understand this game. Hey let's insult the game because I svck at it. People hate what they don't understand. Explain DT to me won't you?

» Thu May 10, 2012 2:14 am

Did that guy seriously just call Speech useless?

FFS, you can't even START a lot of quests without a decent speech skill (Jack from Nellis and Joanna at Gomorrah for example are missing from his list). I also can't name a character of mine that's survived that BoS firing squad without speech. It's practically a neccesity. This is the first game I've played where I'm tempted to call a passive skill "overpowered."

» Wed May 09, 2012 10:59 am

Did that guy seriously just call Speech useless?

FFS, you can't even START a lot of quests without a decent speech skill. I also can't name a character of mine that's survived that BoS firing squad without speech. It's practically a neccesity. This is the first game I've played where I'm tempted to call a passive skill "overpowered."

Yea he did call speech useless. Maybe he's used to games where he can do whatever he wants right when the game starts. Maybe he's to impatient to build his speech skill or he doesn't like the level based restrictions. But that's an RPG.

"I'm giving this game a third chance", pffft. Just go back to playing Fallout 3, a game with hardly any RPG mechanics at all. That's why he understood it more, because it's more of an adventure/light RPG.

» Wed May 09, 2012 7:29 pm

Some of those examples, such as the one with Keene, you have to realize the impact Speech has there. Quests like that? If you don't have speech PEOPLE WILL DIE. If you want to save lives, you need speech. Quests like Joanna's and Jack's, you need speech just to initiate them. And then instances like the BoS firing squad or Oliver's firing squad, you're basically [censored] if you don't have speech.

» Wed May 09, 2012 12:03 pm

Some of those examples, such as the one with Keene, you have to realize the impact Speech has there. Quests like that? If you don't have speech PEOPLE WILL DIE. If you want to save lives, you need speech. Quests like Joanna's and Jack's, you need speech just to initiate them. And then instances like the BoS firing squad or Oliver's firing squad, you're basically [censored] if you don't have speech.

That's what some of these people don't understand. Yea Speech is optional. In some situations it would be nice to have a high Speech skill. If you don't have Speech in that situation, then your other skills will come into use, that is unless the situation relies purely on Speech.

And the reason New Vegas doesn't seem more like a "wasteland" is because the Mojave area didn't get hit hard with nukes like the Capital Wasteland did. Plus, the New Vegas area has the Hoover Dam, which is why there is electricity in New Vegas.

» Wed May 09, 2012 12:44 pm

That's what some of these people don't understand. Yea Speech is optional. In some situations it would be nice to have a high Speech skill. If you don't have Speech in that situation, then your other skills will come into use, that is unless the situation relies purely on Speech.

And in Speech's case....

I actually faced the BoS firing squad yesterday with a level 28, 8 endurance character wearing Remnants power armor (40 DT) on Very Hard/hardcoe mode. Expected to be able to survive with that character. Did I? Hell no, had to reload three times. So yeah, some of those situations can kill just about ANY character.

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:21 am

And in Speech's case....

I actually faced the BoS firing squad yesterday with a level 28, 8 endurance character wearing Remnants power armor (40 DT) on Very Hard/hardcoe mode. Expected to be able to survive with that character. Did I? Hell no, had to reload three times. So yeah, some of those situations can kill just about ANY character.

Lol. I haven't even discovered the BoS yet in the Mojave Wasteland. Isn't the Enclave in New Vegas as well?

» Wed May 09, 2012 12:59 pm

Wow, you obviously do t understand the combat mechanics at all. The guy in the video gives me a good example of how some people don't understand this game. Hey let's insult the game because I svck at it. People hate what they don't understand. Explain DT to me won't you?

DT is really simple. You have your skill, and the gun deal some much damage and DT absorbs so much of that damage and the rest goes through. I am not a fan of a human wearing football pad having 220 health and 15 DT or what ever it is. Boring. boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. this is fun boom boom boom boom boom...

Having 30+ speech challenges in a game doesn't mean it matters. those challenges have to matter too, and not very many of them do. Not enough to build a character around. But you don't understand that. you're blinded by video game numbers and getting sneak attack critical with a sniper rifle like a boss to care about anything else. did I overgeneralize you too much because of a post you made? Oh, so sorry.

» Wed May 09, 2012 4:12 pm

Those challenges have to matter too, and not very many of them do.

I usually have very low CHA so when I don't focus on Speech then I can't even get the 20 speech challenges completed.

Anyway, I think that you need Speech to talk down... Otto, of the Great Khans, otherwise, you have to kill him and you lose reputation with the Great Khans.
You need speech with Keene, or you have to kill him.
If you don't have a high Sneak or a stealthboy then you have to persuade Harland with Speech so you can end the situation with Davidson peacefully, otherwise you have to kill them.
I think that in a quest for Legion, with Vulpes, you need speech to convince a couple of Omerta's, if you don't, you have to kill them.

At low level on Very Hard hardcoe Mode Ghost Town Gunfight can be a really dangerous quest which can kill your first doctor easily.
But with Speech you can convince Trudy to join the fight and Chet to give better supplies.

In New Vegas there are tons of occasions where if you don't have Speech then you are completely [censored] if you want a peaceful solution.
Then again, if you don't want peaceful solutions at all and just want to murder kill death then yeah, maybe then Speech isn't useful.
But New Vegas can be completed by using Speech and not having to kill anyone at all.

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:24 pm

DT is really simple. You have your skill, and the gun deal some much damage and DT absorbs so much of that damage and the rest goes through. I am not a fan of a human wearing football pad having 220 health and 15 DT or what ever it is. Boring. boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. this is fun boom boom boom boom boom...

Having 30+ speech challenges in a game doesn't mean it matters. those challenges have to matter too, and not very many of them do. Not enough to build a character around. But you don't understand that. you're blinded by video game numbers and getting sneak attack critical with a sniper rifle like a boss to care about anything else. did I overgeneralize you too much because of a post you made? Oh, so sorry.

Incorrect, DT is NOT that simple.

Something to realize is that your Pipboy will display a weapon's fully modded damage, but what's important is the base damage. The enemy DT gets subtracted from your BASE damage, then the remainder gets amped up by all the damage boosts (Psycho, certain perks, custom ammo etc). This means that I could have a Gatling laser with 38 damage on my pipboy display, but only 24 points of that is base damage. Thus, if I shoot a guy with 27 DT, all of my amplifiers are completely nullified, since 0 x 1.25 is still 0. This also means that if I have 24 base damage and a x2.5 damage amp for that 24 damage, well, if the enemy has 20 DT, then only FOUR POINTS of damage will even survive the DT to get multiplied by x2.5 for 10 damage total. If it worked like you suggested, then I'd have (24 x 2.5) - 20 = 40 damage; quite a big difference.

» Wed May 09, 2012 10:47 pm

DT is really simple. You have your skill, and the gun deal some much damage and DT absorbs so much of that damage and the rest goes through. I am not a fan of a human wearing football pad having 220 health and 15 DT or what ever it is. Boring. boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. this is fun boom boom boom boom boom...

Having 30+ speech challenges in a game doesn't mean it matters. those challenges have to matter too, and not very many of them do. Not enough to build a character around. But you don't understand that. you're blinded by video game numbers and getting sneak attack critical with a sniper rifle like a boss to care about anything else. did I overgeneralize you too much because of a post you made? Oh, so sorry.

It took you like 30+ minutes to respond to my question. You probably looked it up online, I saw you on this thread for awhile. The Speech challenges do matter, you fail to see that. What Gabriel77Dan said is a good example too. Who's going to just use Speech alone as a skill? No one, thats why at the start of the game you get to add 15 points to any three skills of your choosing.

I could be a gun wielding maniac who uses the Guns skill, Speech skill and Barter skill. Speech can get you a long way in this game, but you fail to see that. I'm not blinded by video game numbers, I just understand how the game works and I play the game and have fun. Your the one who seems blinded, blinded by ignorance.

DT is more complex than that too.

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:21 pm

I usually have very low CHA so when I don't focus on Speech then I can't even get the 20 speech challenges completed.

Anyway, I think that you need Speech to talk down... Otto, of the Great Khans, otherwise, you have to kill him and you lose reputation with the Great Khans.
You need speech with Keene, or you have to kill him.
If you don't have a high Sneak or a stealthboy then you have to persuade Harland with Speech so you can end the situation with Davidson peacefully, otherwise you have to kill them.
I think that in a quest for Legion, with Vulpes, you need speech to convince a couple of Omerta's, if you don't, you have to kill them.

At low level on Very Hard hardcoe Mode Ghost Town Gunfight can be a really dangerous quest which can kill your first doctor easily.
But with Speech you can convince Trudy to join the fight and Chet to give better supplies.

In New Vegas there are tons of occasions where if you don't have Speech then you are completely [censored] if you want a peaceful solution.
Then again, if you don't want peaceful solutions at all and just want to murder kill death then yeah, maybe then Speech isn't useful.
But New Vegas can be completed by using Speech and not having to kill anyone at all.

That's another example. Jessup of the Great Khans.

The impact of that ONE piece of speech is HUUUUUUGE. If you can't talk him down, he has to die, which will land you infamy with the Khans. And just like that, you lose their trust and you lose their kick ass merchant (one of the best merchants in the game, providing you with stockpiles of ammo AND willing to pay you full, fair prices on the items you sell to her). You have to do some pretty decent-sized work arounds in order to do their quests too, which give you access to the Turbo recipe (again, huuuuge), a unique unarmed perk and it's the only way to give them a peaceful ending. (and their peaceful ending is perhaps one of the best, with them managing to build a new nation)

» Wed May 09, 2012 12:52 pm

Speech

Spoiler

I am not even going to address Speech challenges under 40 points. Anyone can do those with a combination of a magazine and some clothes if they want to. Also, none of them are all that impressive at all... nor should they be. Also, I don't know which of these are DLC, but I know that some are and you didn't separate them. You also mixed in Barter challenges to make the list look longer. As I said before, it's funny that there are [censored] speech challenges, but I am not interested in them... at least not until I make a [censored] character.

45 Speech to convince Jessup to release the hostages in Boulder City.
50 Speech to convince Neil to help you kill Tabitha in Crazy, Crazy, Crazy.
50 Speech or the Black Widow perk to convince Chris Haversam that he's human in Come Fly With Me.
50 Speech to get away with killing Caesar with the autodoc during Et Tumor, Brute? (as an alternative to 50Medicine or positive Legion reputation)
55 Speech to get the Think tanks to realize that you are aware of their conversation.
60 Speech to convince Keith to show you how he's cheating at Caravan.
60 Speech to convince Private Stone to turn himself in during the Medical Mystery quest.
64 Speech to convince all Fiends inside of Vault 3 so they will not attack you.
65 Speech to convince Norton outside of Jacobstown to leave the mutants alone in the quest Unfriendly Persuasion
75 Speech to convince Alice McLafferty to give Janet her wages.
75 Speech to cause Tabitha to order the nightkin under her command to attack the super mutants at Black Mountain when activating a radio during Crazy, Crazy, Crazy.
80 Speech to convince Keene for not taking the Stealth Boy Mk2 in the quest Guess Who I Saw Today.
80 Speech to convince Isaac that the Gun Runners can use refurbished weapons while Dealing with Contreras.
80 Speech to convince Orion Moreno to stay with the Remnants and fight for the NCR during the quest For Auld Lang Syne.
80 Speech in order to convince Hector to tell you what he knows about Corporal White during the quest The White Wash.
85 Speech to avoid combat at the conclusion of Bye Bye Love by convincing your pursuers that Joana's escape is part of a secret deal between Carlitos and the Omertas.
95 Speech to talk your way out of combat after bringing back the objective in I Could Make You Care and then leaving the Brotherhood of Steel base.
100 Speech to convince Lee Oliver to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you during the quest Veni, Vidi, Vici.
100 Speech to convince Legate Lanius to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you.

That is 19 challenges that even sound interesting, and I would use even less. I was exaggerating a little when I said only 6... but not by much. I used speech a LOT more in FO3.

Everything else

Spoiler

Mass Effect is linear. Don't pretend it isn't. You have one option, save the universe. That's it. You play the tutorial/introduction, go to the citadel, visit three plants that move the plot forward, visit a 4th planet that is only half disguised as a side quest. At this point there are no role playing choices that effect the game. On this 4th plant you make two choices that have a minor effect on the game. Does Rex live or Die? Do you let Karth or the Pink Power ranger die? Now it's time to go back to the citadel and be Captain Kirk just in time for he epic climactic battle. Finally do you give the order to attack or stay back and save the council? That's it. Everything else is just a bunch of "are you a jerk/neutral/good guy?" questions.

Dragon Age is very linear as well. There are a few origin stories but they don't really matter at all. All that matters is that you pick your race and class. Unless you pick elf, no one cares, and even then they only care a little. You become a Grey Warden Specter General Jedi of awesomeness and a plot twist happens leaving you and Alistair alone. You have to get the armies of Fereldon on your side by doing mini quests for each of them and then it's time for the end game. About the only choice, if you can call it that is to mess with the urn of sacred ashes. You also get to choose who finishes off the Arch Demon Dragon. None of the other choices matter. That doesn't mean they aren't fun, but they don't matter.

There is nothing wrong with a linear RPG. Fallout 3 limits your background story to a 19 year old Boy/Girl who was raised in a vault, but you decide who that character is, what he or she does and why he or she does it. Just like with those other games. A big difference being that you can ignore that the main quest is even there... and you can intentionally stumble on it when ever you want and it will make sense. For example, while sauaging I stumbled upon the Vault dad is in and saved him. I can choose to follow him or let him go on his way and forget about him until later. Speaking about later... I was in Rivet City and guess who I ran into? My dad arguing with Madison over something. At this point I thought i would help dad out. Maybe I could get something out of it... OH CRAP! ... ... okay, we are safe now. I'm out of here... or I can be a hero and find the GEICO gecko. no it' time for the end game. That is way less linear than the other two games mentioned.

In Dragon Age and Mass Effect you are pulled off the main quest by side quests if you ant, but you have to main quest and there is nothing wrong with that. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas you don't have to main quest much at all if you don't want, but in New Vegas you are railroaded more thanks to geography and leveled dangers. There are positives and negatives of both systems. Namely, people don't like to feel railroaded in a sand box world despite what ever spin you want to put on it. I understand both sides and agree with both in different ways.

When it comes to New Vegas there are some main quest options, but it is jut as linear. You eventually find your way to New Vegas, deal with Benny in one way or another and retrieve the chip, play with some factions and decide who controls New Vegas. I am sure there are various little twists here and there but as far as I have gotten I didn't see any that stood out to me as interesting. Go play with the factions... why? Why should I care about any of this mess? In how many hours of game play you haven't given me a reason. An army of toy robots that I won't even be around to control isn't much of an incentive. I'm gonna go explore some vaults. I'll be back latter... speaking of latter, what was I doing again?

"Actually that's the premise of every game ever made. RPG's are about roleplaying your own character in a world filled with choices. Fallout 3, as I said earlier, is not an RPG." Not really, and just because you said that it isn't an RPG doesn't make it true. Anytime you take on a role of another character, you are role playing. A RPG isn't just a game where you get to pick the character. Final fantasy games are JRPGs, but they are still RPGs. You don' get to create the characters at all in those, and they are still considered RPGs. you get very little choices at all in those games, but they are still RPGs. Earthbound, Breath of Fire, Dragon Warrior and other classics all come to mind. All with per-generated characters and a linear story.

Also, in Fallout 3, creating a Giant Purina Water filter is a big step in saving the world. If they can get it to work in the wasteland... they might be able to get it to work else where. Who knows what kind of an impact the GECK may have on the wastes? However, thanks to a good play through of Fallout 3, the world may very well be on the way to brighter future. The closest that NV sounds to an ending like that is with Mr. House.

Tom arrow I think I will try to start a new character on Easy mode just to get though this story. However, I am afraid the same thing is going to happen again. Seriously... it's Nevada. A bomb might have improved the place. Searching the ruins of DC for the declaration of independence before I even got to Rivet City is what it was all about.

I'm not going to drag this further off topic and its clear that you haven't finished the game. See the last sentence of my previous post.

» Wed May 09, 2012 11:55 pm

I will start this off by saying that I really enjoyed Fallout 3 and I was just defending New Vegas which I still feel is the superior game. I apologize for the long thread.

Spoiler

1. In Mass Effect and Dragon Age you are given multiple choices to tweak the story. In Mass Effect you play as Commander Shepard, but s/he is also largely a blank slate(not as much as the Courier though). You can choose Shepard's choices along the way to make a different character and story every playthrough. This is done even more so in Dragon Age because you also get multiple origins stories to choose from. You can still roleplay in these games, less so in Mass Effect though since you are Commander Shepard. Fallout 3 does not do the same thing. In Fallout 3 you have the one tutorial/origin story that will tell you what your character is and thus remove your ability to roleplay without completely ignoring the first ten minutes of the game. You can't roleplay as an old tracker from Arizona or as a Talon Company merc because the game doesn't allow this. 2. You could completely ignore the main quest of Fallout 3, but that doesn't change the fact that you are a 19 year old kid who left the Vault he grew up because of his/her father. If you do choose to complete the main quest of the game you are forced to do all the things I have mentioned. You are never railroaded anywhere in New Vegas. I see this term on here sometimes and its always from people who aren't experienced with this game(no offense). You can go north and either sneak or fight your way past the Cazadores, you can sneak your way past the Deathclaws past Sloan and skip a good portion of the main quest. You can go straight to New Vegas at any time and confront Benny or you could completely ignore the story and set off east into the Mojave. The main quest suggest you go south because that is where the people of Goodsprings say Benny went. It is also a way for new players to get their bearings and learn about the game. I've fought my way past the Cazadores with some Dynamite and 9mm SMG within 20 minutes of leaving Doc Mitchell's house. 3. Fallout 3 is not an RPG, its an adventure game with a linear story. In New Vegas its completely your choice on what you want to do as soon as you step out of Doc Mitchell's house. The point of this game is not to place your own personality on the character(which you can do if you want), its to roleplay as anyone you want. The first time I played I made the choices I wanted to make and followed the main quest south and really enjoyed myself. A while ago I did a playthrough as a clone of Mr. House with his SPECIAL and tag skills, I made choices I thought he would make, used weapons as little as possible and focused on building up my Speech, Science and Barter skills. I had a lot of fun with that playthrough and you couldn't do something like that in Fallout 3. Also the reason why the plot is on hold is because you need to get to the location before you can here the story. I guess the journey south is a tutorial of sorts and just like New Vegas' actual tutorial it can be skipped, unlike Fallout 3's. 4. This is my opinion, I guessed yours would be different. I can't really understand how you could call the conflict over the Hoover Dam childish, the political implications on the wasteland are simply amazingly handled in New Vegas. In Fallout 3 your father doesn't really make good decisions along the way and does some childish things like thinking everything will be normal in the Vault when he leaves it and killing himself just because the Enclave want the purifier. Fallout 3 was a theme park, it had lots of unrealistic attractions that were put in there solely to draw your attention and make us ooh and aww. It also made no sense on both sides of the post apocalyptic scale. It had been 200 years since the bombs fell and it still looks like it happened a couple decades ago. On the other end of the scale, Washington itself is way too intact to have survived the amount of nuclear missiles that must have been aimed at it. In New Vegas you can see that people have actually been rebuilding and view the Great War as ancient history. Before you say anything about New Vegas being intact, there is a reason given for that. 5. Those aren't very profound ending choices in Fallout 3, who pushes the button and how you push it. The only way you can do nothing in the main quest is if you ignore it completely. It is simply bad writing on Bethesda's part that you can't send in Fawkes, RL-3 or Charon. In New Vegas you are choosing who will control the Mojave and how ell they will control it. New Vegas has five different people who can control the Mojave

Spoiler

Mr. House, NCR, Caesar's Legion, Legate Lanius and You/Yesman

Fallout 3 may be a bit less restrictive on where you can go, but only because it has that stupid level scaling system for the enemies. In New Vegas a Deathclaw has the same strength no matter what level you are, which I personally think makes it more rewarding when you become powerful enough to not fear them. 6. Actually that's the premise of every game ever made. RPG's are about roleplaying your own character in a world filled with choices. Fallout 3, as I said earlier, is not an RPG. 7. Fallout 3 is also the reason why I bought New Vegas on the day it came out. New Vegas combined with the originals made me realize what was wrong with Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, Fallout 3 is still a great game. 8. I've killed those same Legionnaires with about 50 Guns skill and a Cowboy Repeater on Normal difficulty. The only character the developers actually made invincible is Yesman. 9. Roleplay as someone else, look at the conflict in the wasteland and decide who you think deserves your support. 10. In Fallout 3 you are first looking for your father and then you help save the wasteland, not the world. I've already stated why Fallout 3 is unrealistic and New Vegas isn't. After 200 years people would have moved on and begin to establish communities. In New Vegas you can decide who gains control of the Mojave and how well they will control it. 11. I really don't like derailing conversations, but I felt the need to respond. I do the exact opposite. New Vegas is the one that makes me think and question the morality of certain actions, it is also the one that didn't try to earn my affection and yet it gained it. 12. If you honestly believe that then you haven't been playing long or spoken to a lot of people. The total amount of Speech checks in Fallout: New Vegas:

Spoiler

15, 30 and 45 Speech in lieu of Benny's evidence to convince Swank to give you your weapons back at The Tops for the confrontation with Benny. 20 Speech to get Joe Cobb to tell you what he did to land himself in prison. 25 Speech to convince Trudy to join the fight in Ghost Town Gunfight. 25 Speech to convince Chet to supply you for the fight with the powder gangers in Run Goodsprings Run. 25, 50 and 75 Speech to trick Karl into losing his cool in front of Papa Khan during the quest Oh My Papa. 25 Speech to convince Deputy Beagle in Primm to stay and fight with you after you release him. 25 Speech to convince Angela Williams to tell the character her opinion about Thomas Hildern. 25 Speech to convince Private Ortega to tell you about the "ungrateful" farmers at the NCR Sharecropper Farms. 30 Speech or 30 Medicine to convince Doc Mitchell to give you three stimpaks before initially leaving his house. Passing both will result in five stimpaks rather than six, Speech will always be the second choice (worth 2). 30 Speech to convince Chavez to move on in I Fought the Law. 30 Speech to convince Comm Officer Lenk to share her story. 30 Speech or 6 Intelligence to convince the suspicious merchant at Jean Sky Diving to reveal himself for I Fought the Law. 30 Speech to convince Johnson Nash to give up information for I Fought the Law for free. 30 Speech or pay 200 caps to convince Major Knight at the Mojave Outpost to pardon Meyers for the questMy Kind of Town. 30 Speech to convince Mick to sell you weapons at Mick and Ralph's. 35 Speech to convince Milo to start the mission Back in Your Own Backyard. 35 Speech to convince Haggerty to allow you into HELIOS One. 40 Speech to convince Deputy Beagle in Primm to give you the information before you release him. 40 Speech to convince each of the Misfits to be more of a "team player" in Flags of Our Foul-Ups. 40 Speech to convince Jane in Freeside to give something else of value towards her debt in quest Debt Collector. 40 Speech to convince Thomas Hildern to improve the offered reward in There Stands the Grass. (available after talking to Dr. Williams and returning to confront Hildern) 41 Speech to convince Boone to tell you who he's on the lookout for. 45 Speech to convince Jessup to release the hostages in Boulder City. 50 Speech to convince Neil to help you kill Tabitha in Crazy, Crazy, Crazy. 50 Speech to convince Tomas to get rid of his necklace. 50 Speech to convince Joana you have what it takes to have six with her, which follows into another speech challenge of 75 in order for her to lead you to her room and commit the deed. 50 Speech or the Black Widow perk to convince Chris Haversam that he's human in Come Fly With Me. 50 Speech to obtain thrust controllers for 250 caps from Old Lady Gibson for Come Fly With Me. 50 Speech to convince Ralph to craft you a counterfeit passport for The Strip at a cost of 500 caps. 50 Speech to get away with killing Caesar with the autodoc during Et Tumor, Brute? (as an alternative to 50Medicine or positive Legion reputation) 55 Speech to get the Think tanks to realize that you are aware of their conversation. 60 Speech to convince Keith to show you how he's cheating at Caravan. 60 Speech to convince Pacer to let you see the King for free. 60 Speech to convince Private Stone to turn himself in during the Medical Mystery quest. 60 Speech to convince Benny to head immediately to The Tops Presidential Suite without his bodyguards. 60 Speech to lie and convince Private Edwards to leave the Camp searchlight house he is holding out in by saying that all the radscorpions are gone. 62 Speech to convince Mortimer to choose the cannibal side in Beyond the Beef. 64 Speech to convince all Fiends inside of Vault 3 so they will not attack you. 65 Speech to convince the gambler to a weapons check while guarding the front of the Silver Rush duringBirds of a Feather. 65 Speech to convince Norton outside of Jacobstown to leave the mutants alone in the quest Unfriendly Persuasion 65 Speech to ask Dog/God "Why did you put emphasis on the word "Master" before?" after freeing him from the jail. Dead Money 66 Speech to convince Jack in the Red Rock Drug Lab to make medicinal chems. 75 Speech to make Dog let God take over in the Dead Money DLC quest Put the Beast Down. (This can only be done if you convinced God to come out of the cage in the quest Find Collar 8: "Dog". 75 Speech to convince the Strange Man during the Birds of a Feather quest to pay you for running chems. 75 Speech or the Confirmed Bachelor perk to convince Arcade Gannon to be your companion. 75 Speech to convince Alice McLafferty to give Janet her wages. 75 Speech to cause Tabitha to order the nightkin under her command to attack the super mutants at Black Mountain when activating a radio during Crazy, Crazy, Crazy. 80 Speech to convince Keene for not taking the Stealth Boy Mk2 in the quest Guess Who I Saw Today. 80 Speech to convince Isaac that the Gun Runners can use refurbished weapons while Dealing with Contreras. 80 Speech to convince Orion Moreno to stay with the Remnants and fight for the NCR during the quest For Auld Lang Syne. 80 Speech or good Karma to convince Legate Lanius to fight you one-on-one. 80 Speech in order to convince Hector to tell you what he knows about Corporal White during the quest The White Wash. 85 Speech to avoid combat at the conclusion of Bye Bye Love by convincing your pursuers that Joana's escape is part of a secret deal between Carlitos and the Omertas. 85 Speech to say Dog/God "You want to protect Dog..." after freeing him from the jail. Dead Money 85 Speech to convince Dog/God to merge personalities in the Dead Money DLC quest Put the Beast Down. 95 Speech to talk your way out of combat after bringing back the objective in I Could Make You Care and then leaving the Brotherhood of Steel base. 100 Speech to convince Lee Oliver to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you during the quest Veni, Vidi, Vici. 100 Speech to convince Legate Lanius to leave Hoover Dam without fighting you.

If you don't feel interested in New Vegas thus far then you probably won't gain any by playing it again. Have fun in the Capital. :tops:

I would like to point out that in the nuclear war of 2077, many nukes were in fact detonated overhead to result in more casualties, especially over civillians. Megaton and the delta 5 ICBM found in the capitol wasteland are examples of malfunctions. The lack of lots of craters in both games( except vegas because house shot them down) is due to the nukes being detonated overhead therefore leaving many buildings intact. And you can completely skip the main quest in fo3 I am currently doing a playthrough. I am level 21 and have barely finished installing the GNR satelliete dish. I have done plenty of side quests and you can avoid the main quest by not talking to Dr. Li in Rivet city.

» Wed May 09, 2012 9:49 pm

I would like to point out that in the nuclear war of 2077, many nukes were in fact detonated overhead to result in more casualties, especially over civillians. Megaton and the delta 5 ICBM found in the capitol wasteland are examples of malfunctions. The lack of lots of craters in both games( except vegas because house shot them down) is due to the nukes being detonated overhead therefore leaving many buildings intact. And you can completely skip the main quest in fo3 I am currently doing a playthrough. I am level 21 and have barely finished installing the GNR satelliete dish. I have done plenty of side quests and you can avoid the main quest by not talking to Dr. Li in Rivet city.

Nuclear missiles detonate about 100 metres above the ground, this is called an airburst and intensifies the blast. The Capital Wasteland doesn't make sense on either end of the destruction scale. If it was saturated with nukes like the wasteland makes you believe then how come the city is intact? If a lot of the missiles were shot down then how come the wasteland looks like it was bombed a couple decades ago?

You can do the same thing in New Vegas. I did a playthrough in New Vegas where I had completed all of the DLC, was at level 50 and hadn't even seen set foot on the Strip yet. The point is that the main quest of Fallout 3 is incredibly linear and forces you to complete situations in one way if you decide to do it. You could completely ignore the main quest, but the entire wasteland will still treat you like a kid from a Vault.

Like I said I do really like Fallout 3, but it does have pronounced flaws. New Vegas also has flaws, but I find them more forgivable then Fallout 3's.

» Wed May 09, 2012 5:19 pm

Nuclear missiles detonate about 100 metres above the ground, this is called an airburst and intensifies the blast. The Capital Wasteland doesn't make sense on either end of the destruction scale. If it was saturated with nukes like the wasteland makes you believe then how come the city is intact? If a lot of the missiles were shot down then how come the wasteland looks like it was bombed a couple decades ago? You can do the same thing in New Vegas. I did a playthrough in New Vegas where I had completed all of the DLC, was at level 50 and hadn't even seen set foot on the Strip yet. The point is that the main quest of Fallout 3 is incredibly linear and forces you to complete situations in one way if you decide to do it. You could completely ignore the main quest, but the entire wasteland will still treat you like a kid from a Vault. Like I said I do really like Fallout 3, but it does have pronounced flaws. New Vegas also has flaws, but I find them more forgivable then Fallout 3's.

Ok thank you for clarifying the airburst tactic I was not completely aware of how it was used. It seems that the main issue for you about fallout 3 was that it didnt really allow rolplaying. You misunderstood me however. I said House shot down nukes over the Mojave, not the Capitol Wasteland. And since there never has been a nuclear war, and besided the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we really have no reference point on the advanced weapons technology that was used in nuclear weapons in fallout. I havnt seen to many pictures before and just after those real life bombs were detonated but I assume that the only reason that area is livable and has recovered from having terribly scorched ground is because the radiation was scrubbed after the fact. There were no radiation "scrubbings" after the nuclear war because every body was either a ghoul, dead, or in a vault/fallout shelter. So we can assume the ground would still look terrible, even 200 years after the war. And trees wouldnt be able to regrow, only small shrubs. However you are completely correct that the buildings still standing dont make sense. All major military installations were still intact to. It seems China either had really bad aim(not that aim matters with nuclear weapons), or they just launched very quickly in response to missiles being launched at them, not really caring where the missiles hit, as long as they killed people.
EDIT: And in response to you saying that you dont have many choices in fo3, I personally found there were plenty of options in side quests but sadly none in the main quest except the fev, but why the **** would anyone do that.Or nuke the bos in broken steel but again wht the f*** would anyone do that.However overlooking the inconsistencies, I felt that FO3 had more content than NV, hardcoe mode aside. WOW we went off topic from difficulty level hahahaha.

» Wed May 09, 2012 5:35 pm

It took you like 30+ minutes to respond to my question. You probably looked it up online, I saw you on this thread for awhile.
DT is more complex than that too.

It's almost like I can have more than one tab open at a time. I have had this game since it came out and have the Collector's edition Strat guide. I know a lot about this game, but knowing about it doesn't mean I have to like the way it works.

I also was happening to get ready for a wedding, which I just got back from but left this page open on my laptop. That must mean I was here the whole time.

Did you really want me to go into full detail for something that trivial? Do you do anything else other than play this game and lurk the forums?

Fallout 3 and many other games have no problem progressing the main character and the difficulty of the game seamlessly. New Vegas doesn't. It reminds me all the time that I am playing a video game. This is a perfect example. Do you want to min max and calculate imaginary number to find the optimal damage output? Cool. Go for it. Enjoy it. I want to play my "adventure game" and just enjoy the adventure.

I play Dragon Age on Nightmare because I like the strategy of that game. Full friendly fire damage to the party, the enemy can actually make saving throws, party balance and tactics matter.

There is nothing wrong with playing on easy or normal [not to say you said there was] and I just don't find playing on anything more difficult to be any fun. At some point it feel like a chore and not a game.

» Wed May 09, 2012 7:50 pm

Do what feels best, how easy this game is will be subject to how you build your character and how smart you play. The guy above me is clearly not very good at this game.

lol viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiva las vegas

» Wed May 09, 2012 4:47 pm

It's almost like I can have more than one tab open at a time. I have had this game since it came out and have the Collector's edition Strat guide. I know a lot about this game, but knowing about it doesn't mean I have to like the way it works.

I also was happening to get ready for a wedding, which I just got back from but left this page open on my laptop. That must mean I was here the whole time.

Did you really want me to go into full detail for something that trivial? Do you do anything else other than play this game and lurk the forums?

Fallout 3 and many other games have no problem progressing the main character and the difficulty of the game seamlessly. New Vegas doesn't. It reminds me all the time that I am playing a video game. This is a perfect example. Do you want to min max and calculate imaginary number to find the optimal damage output? Cool. Go for it. Enjoy it. I want to play my "adventure game" and just enjoy the adventure.

I play Dragon Age on Nightmare because I like the strategy of that game. Full friendly fire damage to the party, the enemy can actually make saving throws, party balance and tactics matter.

There is nothing wrong with playing on easy or normal [not to say you said there was] and I just don't find playing on anything more difficult to be any fun. At some point it feel like a chore and not a game.

Yea I do more than lurk the forums and play New Vegas, I'm off this semester so I'm enjoying it.

I don't sit around with a calculator trying to figure out what's gonna happen next, the game does it for me. I just build my character and play. I just understand the mechanics (I'm not saying you do not). I don't have a problem with someone's preference to play on a easier difficulty, they're the ones playing.

» Wed May 09, 2012 10:30 pm

The game's numbers are built around medium difficulty. If you're good at this sort of game, use low tier weapons and low DT armor (or even DT-less clothes) and don't shoot things at long range; give yourself rules for what you want to use for healing. If you're bad at this sort of game, then go up to the beefier weapons, wear high DT armor, min/max your perks and stats, and over-use long-range sniping.

Changing difficulty just screws up weapon/armor balance and either the enemies or you wind up as a bullet sponge.

Queue