Ever seen a destruction mage with a fireball staff? It's a little insane. As long as you take full advantage of what the game has to offer, mages can be fine. Can't expect to just raise illusion and walk around owning dragons. Recharge your staves and use all of the rings of magery. You'll be fine.

If Beth did that i would lose all faith in them actually... Think of the people in the same situation WITHOUT internet! They won't be able to download that dlc and therefor will be just as bored..

If the firestaff is good then yes.. it's good but it is just as good as it is for a mage as it is for a warrior if i'm correct about staffs.. and you can only have 1 ring...

exactly,

all i want is to just play a mage like in Dragon Age Origins, im tired of hearing you cant just use destruction to which i reply its a skill, it has its own tree and should be just as powerful as one handed or archery. i also want to point out you only get 81 points to pick something like 237 total perks, you cant be totally proficient in everything like a battle mage. my total 81 level build is still going to be a mage with maybe 5 points in the first level of the one handed tree, everything else is in magic with the exception of 6 in alchemy and 9 in enchanting. the amount of spells almost directs me into using every point into magic just so mages can stay afloat and not become too weak keeping in mind a fully developed mage still feels underpowered in this game.

The staves are not as good for a warrior. The staff on a warrior with 20 destruction will be far weaker than on a mage with 50 destruction. They skill with the appropriate skill field. And by "rings of magery" I meant all of the skills of magery. Compare it to a warrior only using light armor and his hands, or a warrior only using one handed weapons and butt naked. If you combine the pools of magery, you will be very powerful.

This is probably going to be true of all of the DLC. This is a part of the business we are stuck with unless we decide to boycott the DLC. I am simply not willing to boycott it.

Why should a fireball with 80 destruction hit harder than an arrow with 80 archery? Or are you saying you die far quicker than an archer in armor? In which case I would reply to you, that archer also has some sort of armor on (which just so happens to be a skill). Maybe level up your alteration and restoration if you're dieing so quickly. Armor/Health spells are just as good as armor/health pots.

Some other member made a post about it recently where he counted the spells in Oblivion (around 2000) and the spells in Skyrim (96)... nuff said

I think if you don't have internet in 2011 you've dug your own grave. Bring your PS3/Xbox to a friends house or wallow in your own sad situation.

I think it is the same. When I gave Lydia a couple staffs she put away her 2H glass sword and rocked the house.

What pisses me off the most is how few spells there are how little effects the existing ones have. Playing a somewhat pure mage atm and it gets extremely boring. Dont even try.

Then theres also the awful balance between schools. Restoration is basically useless and destruction is just awful. And I miss mysticism. Conjuration is the most fun Ive had but even that has so few spells its ridiculous.

Waiting for mods to fix bethesda's game for them.

Your right Destruction mages svck.. Not conjuration.. The problem with Destruction spells is that the expert and Master spells aren't good.. Maybe a Master spell that did 165 damage and bounced off walls and stuff would be cool..

Don't know what everyone is on about, Destruction is more fun then swinging a re-skinned sword all the time.

And even after I go over level 30 and by some chance its "underpowered" I'll still be owning everything in sight.

After all, Dragon shouts are magic too.

The benefit that mages get from staves has to do with number of charges and their corresponding skill. Fireball staff will have way more charges for someone with high destruction skill. Not more damage.

I am level 47 currently and playing as pure mage ... frankly levellling to 50 is requiring me to level some stuff I don't use and don't really plan on using but I want to: A: Test mages at level 50 B: Get that level 50 achievement. I have a backup of my character at level 44 and if I don't really dig the gameplay after level 50 for this character I wil just revert to my backup.

My main skills are: Destruction, Conjuration, Alteration, Enchanting. These 4 skills have been basically my entire playstyle with a Minor in Restoration (it's only level 61 and my other skills are all 100). At level 44 I was decimating everything in my path, without having to use my summons, but even worse when I did use them. Lydia died and joined the glorious dead a long time ago so I haven't been rolling with a follower. Now that I am trying to level to 50 I started creating potions, and running around shooting friendly villagers with Courage. I really don't ever need potions and I have very little desire to use Illusion with this character but those two skills kind of fit my character plan better than the other skills. I might have to raise smithing a little bit to get to level 50, we'll see ... Like I said if I don't like how the character turns out at level 50 then I will just revert to my level 44 save and keep playing and having fun the way I was.

I have not found, in my own playing, mages to be underpowered. However, I only play on Adept so YMMV. Also I am still sub-level 50 so YMMV.

If you use the mod "improved destruction"and gift yourself a little more magicka and better spells playing as a mage is an insane amount of fun.... but that's just me.

Expert spells aren't good? WTF?!

The expert spells are the best spells a destruction mage has. The master spells are just awful though... can't dispute that. Garbage damage, huge cast time, force you to stand still... nothing you want on a mage.

How hard does an arrow with 80 archery hit? It depends on your bow and your craft skills. The Archery on my first character is only 70 but having 100 in smithing and enchanting... I have a Deadric bow with 53 Damage, 37 points of Fire Damage, 37 points of Frost Damage and using steel arrows for another I believe 12 points of damage... So each arrow is hitting for far more damage then the Expert Destruction spells with a skill level of 95 and it's easy to keep the bow charged, it has about 200 charges but with a soul trap/absorb stamina sword which has a damage rating of 188 when used with the full set of armor (2x+40 one-handed skill, total skill 180). Now I can enchant destruction cost reduction so all destruction spells are free but what is the point when I can instead enchant archery and do 3 times the damage with weightless steel arrows (which are insanely plentiful).

Now I have started a new character, a mage, I am starting to see more of the problem. I'm not quite there at the trouble marked area yet but I have seen some of the problem from my previous character too where destruction was leveled just for character levels more then anything. Mages can touch the OPness that Warrior, stealth and hybrid builds get but only via conjuration, not through destruction.

My Biggest Criticism with all spell schools is the Skill Level Perks, the half priced spells is only going to help if you start as a mage, else wise they can be ignored by just going for enchanting since enchanting can be used to get free spells in every school... you look at the combat skills, they all give +20% damage bonus for their base perk (which is the equiv of the magic schools skill perks). Also look at sneak with it's bonuses to sneak attacks, daggers can be made to do x15 backstab damage (x30 with dark brotherhood gear), which with Shadow Warrior can potentially allow you to chain instant death attacks which is very OPed only using all three craft skills is it possible to get more OPed then the damage of a single tree... mages get nothing like any of this.

I don't understand why my mage characters always seem so poor in combat compared with the games, yet when i play a melee charcter the high level mages can one shot me with some fireball or whirlwind attack whenever i try to get in close <_<

It's just like I said before skyrim release. With the added Dragon shouts there just gonna gimp magic to make it look that much better. Conjuration in oblivion was so much better and diverse

OMG, exploiting turns you into a god? Revolutionary concept.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1289727-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-4/



But forget about that, the spell selection is horrible. Todd hyped sprays, cloaks, and glyphs to high hell -> yet they are completely useless at mid-high levels, as are the Master spells.

'MY GOD IS THAT A-'
'Yeah this is the 2 handed basket that targeted all those arrow-stricken knees the guards had. You're next'
*Wilhelm scream*

Just curious how you think a non-mage is any better in terms of 'variety'. Lets see.. you can swing your weapon or shoot a bow.. Wow.. whole two options! Yes you can upgrade weapons and what not but playstyle is the same. With the mage at least you have a variety of play styles and strategies.

I've got to say, I haven't played these mages yet, but I am much less concerned about being underpowered than about being overpowered while playing Skyrim. If the game is too tough, lower the difficulty to the point where you can play the game the way you want to. In contrast, I am really worried about playing a warrior class and feeling like I have to consciously limit my choices so that I don't break the game and make it less fun. In the second case, my gameplay is actually being hurt because there are skills that I can't choose even though I want to. In the former, I can still use whatever I want, I just need to tweak settings. The warrior who finds master easy can't do anything but wait until a mod rebalances things.

Note: I do have sympathy for the fact that the scaling of the destruction tree works weirdly (weak damage but with no magicka cost). I think this is a valid complaint because it is strictly gameplay related. You don't have the OPPORTUNITY to do high damage (in the same way a 2-hand warhammer does), regardless the fact such damage could be balanced. I think some of these issues could be solved if you could perk some spells to do more damage (even at a higher magicka cost).

There are five schools of magic and five levels of mastery, so each level of mastery of each school has about 5 spells in Skyrim. Personally, I don't see a problem with this. Most often, I do like more, especially where magic is concerned. In this case though, I think "less is more", which the designers apparently also stuck to.

Is this backwards? Maybe. But I'm glad the designers decided to make Skyrim and not just Oblivion II.

Adding stuff as DLC, whether for free or for a small fee, sounds great to me (though apparently not to some, who are already complaining about the mere thought of that happening). Adding in a few other kinds of weapons would be lovely as well. I'd like to see some polearms!

I knew people will jump into this thread, half reading the OP and assume this is another destruction UP threads...

I feel you OP, there are too few spell and too few loots to keep playing a mage intereating. i had a blast too when my mage was lv25ish, but then i realize i will still use same spell, wear same robe 10 levels later...