Do they deserve to take back skyrim? Yes, genocide? No. At least that's my opinion, even in exile and corruption the Falmer still live in skyrim and they've lived there longer then any of the nords have.

War and genocide is never justified, but if the Falmer would take over and return to the old days (which is possible if Gelebor is to be believed), I would certainly accept it.

It doesn't matter if they can win. Unless they can personally find and kill every single Nord, guess what's probably going to happen?

Nords rebuild in hiding. Come out of said hiding. Mop floor with the blood of each Falmer's family. That's similar in some respects to what happened last time. Falmer killed a bunch of Nords, and they answered with ruthless brutality. I wouldn't test that again.

1 for 1 is bad enough.

Besides, they would have to kill many of the other races in the process. Pissing everyone off is probably a horrendous idea.

Oh yeah, definitely. But the fact they are starting to learn is already a problem for anyone who decides to travel too close to one of their lairs or "hunting" grounds.

They still rely on primordial instinct though it's true that their domestication of the charus and equipment forging does show a sign of returning intellect

You know what the sad part is? Most Nords alive today don't even know who or what the Falmer are....

Wait, don't they give white souls when killed?

Yep. It makes about as much sense as the validity of war crimes to me. How can there be war crimes when war in itself is a crime?

The Nords send random adventurers to explore their old tombs, as if they'd seriously invade the dank, dark caves the Falmer live in and kill every last one of them?

Yes, ask Hev about that one. He can explain it better.

That proves they are not truly intelligent/sentient beings like most living humans/Mer.

It's funny you mention that. When I first got the game a year and a half ago, I thought they were basically Gremlins til I learned more about them. And I was always a Nord too.

That's not the point.

The point is that they would just be restarting the chain. The Falmer rise up and kill a bunch of Nords. Guess what happens next? Nords rise up and kill a ton of Falmer. Take a wild guess at what happens next? It's really a curveball. The Falmer rise up and kill a bunch of Nords. You see the problem?

Again, just wait for Hev. He'll tell you why they downgraded from black to white souls. But do souls really have much to do with intelligence?

Yeah. I was thinking less of genocide and more traditional warfare in that sense. :S

Yeah, it's just a vicious unending circle until one race is completely exterminated. I've come to that conclusion a long time ago.

That will never happen for the sake of maintaining intrigue in this subject.

Yeah. In my eyes, complete genocide is generally not going to happen. And with the way the Nords are, I would imagine the closer the Falmer come to it, the worse the retaliation would be. So I would just let it go.

My hopes for them is that they have their intelligence and what not returned to them, and then over a long period of time slowly reintroduce their people to society. Don't just go out for revenge as soon as you can tell what is going on. All that is going to do is get you put back into the caves.

Yes and ha, yep. But you never know; once the Falmer put two and two together, who knows how they'll react.

There is no justification from the past in the present, period.

What my ancestor's did to you has no bearing on my responsibilities.

And that's even before you jump into things like Genocide and Murder.

**** it! I'm just going to unleash all my anger in this one post. If I offend Nord lovers, deal with it.

1.) http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/541833502858236844/1B847B68AFE8FF274558810A8368701C2B4140DB/

2.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541833502858240741/74D48634DBD050FAF78616804F9CF2EC17CF8864/

3.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541835583571114210/5B6F58EA01DE83724E0E55B0F5F525A3BE86DD82/

4.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844271411820/6E35AF9233F7DB7411AEA8151A97CC178BA1E864/

5.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541835583571095320/D2889517201C65AB30D567AB2A7B46CCEA210740/

6.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844271191501/CC1D89A46BBBFE3948A7BE8712E7C4E1D23E1B5C/

7.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844271838358/CAD0A8169FFB61BD7C11048C5FEE278E09286D3F/

Behold, the return of the Snow Prince!

8.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472819355383/0103EF7DA67A7BC8D79963AC9929BB4D82063CFC/

9.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472819359411/0D3DFD921C7D5EF39FC1E14F877C2DB8B9FEDB01/

10.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472819364293/34B581727D292EE72ACD51D53AC190F857D9ACC4/

11.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541834765411947036/70FA1E3D9930185BC8648EF597AB0F6DA8A7E953/

12.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541834765411954081/5BFA28E38CDB4721E2A0E4D146E090298BE122D9/

13.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541834765411961870/DEEE288D9172F931AA68722D5D3F65B7245E382C/

This ****ing Nord....

14.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541835583571057551/4ECDC41B708F16813EA0940AC62C7F275D8A04BF/

15.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844201885444/50C4B5DBFB13F5D3D5367AB56191F9426BA954B6/

16.) http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541835583571072806/02A71F465A5611BD3223B3ED5D4450C01EB48612/

17.) http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844201854332/D012E8A10D2582C032E6D412A79110F6EFD46195/

and this was just the intro...

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936612024/723A433879A832C1BA971A2220D647C463DF998A/

For 4,000 years you have suffered from their genocide. Their wholesale relentless slaughter. The unquenchable blood-thirst of those barbarians. Those children of the enemy. Auri-El warned us to be wary of them. And what did we do? We ignore his warning, and welcome these Atmorans with open arms. Then the Night of Tears...

There are but many myths and little fact on just what happened on that faithful day. But the results of it were real. The blood-thirsty demons returned from their hell with an unyielding blood-lust. Auri-El's champion, savior and messiah of the Falmer - http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542959956154204150/A14E4E9BF3BF20D2B8AFC672B1ADA2E17413BD9B/ he is known as. With the wildest of bad luck, he fell in battle from the most unlikely of sorts, in the most unlikely of ways. And from there on, the Falmer were as good as dead. Many fled for their lives, many stood their ground and accepted their death, and many surrendered. All of them would suffer. And the Falmer would suffer for the rest of time, from their children, http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472937216962/22F4F89F7AFA8E99C86408E4503FBD161825C516/

The Betrayed, for betrayed they were, by the treacherous, selfish Dwemer... http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844275665379/F14A51B51BB188170EF8B8410366AD4DB37A5F06/, and without proper guidance. http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/541833502892275488/935AAF0D229223917EF9EE72D55F6BDDB3D4F16C/ There is but http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472937290749/B26A7F06C279D06B797E894219A40D060A91EE42/ who can http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472937233906/365959E7F7B75B994BD1A483574016B93521FACC/ Who can guide the fallen Falmer back to the http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577864844162982693/CAFD4EA6B844348F7C944F6B1746C6504F66D699/ One, who brings the Betrayed into unison and purpose...

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936704456/78FB967E550D7FD04AF3E5F93D10AF7625AB926B/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541835583545865106/1CE1DA21D5302215B2371F56D1C19211C627844D/

And so, with Malacath's vengeance in his mind, and anger in his heart. The reincarnation of the Snow Prince began his http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936620586/496C3AAD5FD020BA586FE2616FAF9C7E15130371/ The ancient city... built by Falmer enslaved by Ysgramor and his devil horde. http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936617262/C3660B0AF683482C8F9AB6DC5CBFD534F3108E8F/, the Nords - obsessed with fighting amongst themselves - never expected. So fierce was the attack, http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936627857/26D4FB406A2A7EDC9D8733E151398B14B25B07F1/

And the Betrayed called out to their savior: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936632751/2A667984EABCC7EDB997B8B2ADB3F22CCEFF2CCD/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936719529/0D92C47E2267BCE32E98F858B8B3686174E1C05F/

And the Snow Prince http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936697176/05EC9614CFAF1702C1353F185D23129963FD5427/ for Auri-El has shown him the way. All the anger, misery, and suffering the Betrayed endured, was all but http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936725701/0587E26AEDD2DC9ECEEF0680CB9FABFBBAEA3312/

"http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936644568/1E5BC1FC0DE784B092608C067F6F05308F4859F7/ that rends travelers http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936662125/A48E8759E2B0DE6A5BF1C6E69756C12BC8019C36/ loose the very foundations of the sturdiest hall, the http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936666868/9877986291143CAE7327539E19A823C2D1222ADA/ Indeed the ice and snow did begin to http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936732011/74EC6A1CD74AD23888CDE2CF0F16533C7A7B9A99/"

"http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936754117/7432B20AF9BA4E0336CBD657888C22E82E1A8B01/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936828203/D2BF44E16FF9F6570673A555C0EB2BA4F5446E38/

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578991472936831943/6AA513FFA96ACBC6EE2C5AA134550DF8DED14A0C/"

That day... Auri-El shed a tear, and Sovngarde shook.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/ZoDiaC91/044b554e-8562-47d1-a64b-ea45391bdb1e_zps0ea1ea07.jpg?t=1371005016

^ THE EFFECTS OF SKOOMA IN A NUTSHELL!

That was very well done and very, very passionate.

Might makes right. Unfortunately, Falmer have lacked the might to make a difference in every encounter with Nords since the Night of Tears.

So the wild, white-souled monsters can ambush and abduct traveling farmers and traders. Seems to be Vyrthur's misgivings more than any actual thought on behalf of the elf-beasts. Should they leave their caves, they'd get massacred again. Walls, cavalry, tongues possibly, better armor, better weapons, etc.

Even if the Falmer think that they do, do the Nords and other similarly more technologically advanced and more enlightened peoples have that same right to genocide?

It is obvious that the Imperials are akin to the Romans and the Nords are akin to the northern (Germanic and/or other "barbaric") states. All other peoples are those that have learned to co-exist with both of them under Imperial law. But I still consider the Falmer as a people - rather than wild animals. I had the same sentiment with Goblins in Oblivion.

From this page (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Falmer), it reads as if the Falmer "rediscovered" their hatred of the Nords and was systematic in their attacks and raids by guerilla warfare. But there are few evidence of this level of "culture IQ" (Is that a thing?) in the game. What may bridge this gap is the story of how the snow elves "rediscovered" their hatred of the Nords after all that "supposed" time (i.e. generations) devolving underground.

Admittedly, I don't know the lore as much as others. And I've only just finished that Snow Elf Quest where I found rare Falmer books. I suppose reading them would help me understand The Falmer more.

EDIT: Well, it seems that the discussion has progressed a lot since I started typing this reply. It was a reply to the very first post.

You want to snip your quote please? It's pretty big.

Anyways... funny stuff Hev!