Being a lore nut that I am, I always wanted to offer up theories on possible meanings that also exist within the mysteries of the ES universe. For a time, we've seen mostly the Aedra and Daedra as this good/evil sort of view. While some Daedras are actually more benevolent than others, they are in no ways evil. There are exceptions such as Dagon though.

However, the look on Aedra and Daedra can be only summed up as Order vs Chaos. Chaos embodies change which is what the Daedra are known for, willing to do some unsavory actions that mortals do not like. Order embodies control and authority. Since Aedras embody both Anuic and Padomic qualities, I guess really they are the balance. Though not all seem to have these qualities.

Then there is Jyggalag, the Daedric Prince of Order. He is the opposite of EVERYTHING the other Daedric Princes think and believe. Calculative, logical and a master at deduction, always in control, and absolutely powerful. He sees the past, present and future. He wants to control that flow, that line, to have complete and total order. I dare say, he could not really be a true Daedric prince. He is a Daedra who does not embody change, and in fact, embodies complete and total control, holding authority on nearly the whole of Oblivion.

What is Jyggalag anyways? He certainly isn't Aedric because he has no chaotic quality to him. He certainly isn't Daedric at all, so what is he really? I could say he is the only deity to embody only Anuic qualities but I don't want to say nothing for sure.

While the Aedra certainly are seen in a positive light, they come from both Anu and Padomy. Daedras are often seen as a negative light because of how dangerous they are and how destructive their actions are. Jyggalag though, we know almost absolutely nothing about. We still don't know about him during Skyrim, and we were expecting some lore reference to that.

My guess is, he is still building up his own realm now that he has given it to the Champion of Cyrodil, who took up the mantle of Sheogorath. But that is a discussion for another time.

What you're thinking is anuic and padomaic. Even Aedra can be padomaic, the idea all Aedra = Anuic and all Daedra = padomaic is pretty wrong. The only thing separating the two is their position when creation was being made. Jyggalag, like the other Daedra, stood on the side lines as the Aedra built themselves into the earthbones and became the mortal races.

Jyggalag isn't always in control as given when the other princes sealed him for eternity as Sheogorath. As for Jyggalag being free, that's a big NO. We have enough from in game sources stating that the same thing happens over and over again.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul-1

and then there is this bit from Skyrim I recently found when replaying it

"But only half right. I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x0002bcfe

Notice how Sheogorath doesn't use the past tense, he doesn't make any note saying that it used to get passed down, only that it does. The Greymarch will happen again, a new champion will be chosen, Sheogorath will turn into Jyggalag, champion defeats Jyggalag and champion is consumed by Sheogorath. The ultimate trick played by the god of tricks.

Think of it like this, the greymarch is just putting new chains on Jyggalag.

I think you have misread me. I didn't specifically say all Aedra are Anuic because I did say Aedra embodies both order and chaos.

Second, the part of Jyggalag being free has no relevance to what I said in the thread.

Thirdly, I hardly think Jyggalag is to be bound forever. It wouldn't make sense as to why a third party of considerable will and strength would go through all this trouble on Sheogorath's behalf to stop the Greymarch only to have the process repeat.

Because the greymarch needs to happen to put Jyggalag in new chains. A new body is needed for Sheogorath and telling the champion what would happen would even turn a insane man to go "No thanks."

In almost every Sheogorath story there is one common theme, he is a trickster. That's his greatest theme in each one besides his insanity and nothing would fit better for a story based entirely around him then the story itself being one giant long con. Plus it probably entertains him.

Also Aedra don't embody both chaos and order, mortals do. Not all Aedra are mortals and mortals became something completely different from the Aedra.

Keep in mind the Arden Sul article isn't written by the dev themselves. Its speculation and groundings are good, but in the end it is just speculations. It also entirely ignores what Jyggalag says in the end of the quest and the entire point of Shivering Isles quest.

Also Cider, I'm getting tired that you keep saying it's canon. The problem with that theory it completely overrides what our champion's fate is, and that is something Bethesda would never do. Just as Nerevarine setting sail to Akavir is rumors, and Dragonborn fate being a new Miraak, so too our champion being completely obsolete is not set in the stone or even being Sheogorath for all that to matter.

It also ignores what Sheogorath is known to do... he's not just a trickster to mortals. But he is a trickster amongst gods. He always found ways to teach a lesson to the Princes as shown in the Accords. So why is it so far fetch the idea that Sheogorath breaking the curse, and practically flipping the bird to the Daedra in releasing Jyggalag and in time Greymarch on all of them is so hard to comprehend? What makes you think he won't succeed, he would just bend over to be a prison, a warden?

And this is ignoring the lore he may have stole the Aedra's champion (Pelinal Reborn) and may as well flipped the bird to the Aedra because of that.

As for Jyggalag being the Prince of Order yet a Daedric Prince. Well it's not entirely uncharacteristic. When you look at the whole Padomay and Sithis, it seemed to say Chaos gave birth to order, because when you think about it. What is chaos but a bed of changes? It goes through so many state that it is guaranteed to go through that state of Order, another change itself.

Look at Greymarch, don't say it's NOT change when it is turning Shivering Isles to what it was... a Realm of Order. Jyggalag is as much a Prince as any other in a way because he expresses his sphere just as Molag with his domination, Dagon with his destruction and etc.

Do not look at it just Chao and Order, or Anuic and Daedric, black and white. Remember how the Beginning of TES universe begin. Grey Matter. Grey speaks when white overlaps with black. Chaos overlaps with Order. Amongst the spectrum of grey, that's where the spirits, the Adas were born. Some just more darker, others on the lighter of the scale. Every gods and spirits embodies Order and Chaos, some more, some less. Jyggalag is no different from his siblings

He's just the odd egg. Like Meridia, Malacath, Peryite.

Not saying it's canon, I find the idea of "canon" a joke as I agree with the idea that elder scrolls should be open sourced. I'm just saying that "speculation" (given that "speculation" is reinforced by NUMEROUS in-game sources) is very likely and it's even moreso backed up by what Sheogorath says in skyrim. Letting out Jyggalag is NOT a trick, there is nothing about it that suggests it's a trick.

A warden releases his prisoner just to go "TRICKED YA" is not a trick, it's just being a jerk. Now, convincing himself, Jyggalag and his champion? That's a great trick, probably one of his biggest tricks.

As for the champion having a "canon" ending, also not suggesting that. The CoC could easily split themselves off from the role of Mad-god by splitting themselves in two, they're a god after all. So in a way you could still say the CoC is Sheogorath while saying the CoC isn't sheogorath, because they split into two.

Notice the NUMEROUS in-game source only refers what was happening Greymarch, what it has always happened. But never the conclusion. It also refers what Sheogorath could have been, might be, but never would be.

Arden Sul theory is great, but again it contradicts Jyggalag. It is saying the Prince of Order is lying, a Prince of Order who is known to know everything is ignorant, naive on the nature of the curse. That as a Daedric Prince, who is known to be sured that facts is absolute, that the curse would never break, would not know the curse has ended?

And that he would contradict himself entirely?

Pass down to me to myself. Could be just a reference. Just as blood, fox, butterflies is itself a reference. But as a definite statement?

And are we really going to discuss the semantic of what counts as a trick?

What is the biggest trick that one who is thought to be doomed forever, bound to do what the Princes' wishes, forever kneel to his fate... but broke something that was thought to be undoable? If taken the speculation that the curse has broken, Sheogorath would be first in fact to prove nothing is permanent in the realm of Oblivion. That the Princes' power is NOT absolute, which fits as the Void, Oblivion is the bed of chaos. Something that he would in no doubt, be at glee for what he is. Nothing is static, nothing is unchangeable. Does it not count as a cunning act to do something that Princes thought that it cannot be done?

Haha, being a jerk is exactly what he has been doing to the Princes since the Beginning. To say it's not a trick is saying what Lorkhan had done to other Spirits might as well him just being a [censored] jerk, and not a trick itself.

Actually, I've always thought of Aedra and Daedra as representations of Stasis and Change, which is what the two forces were of Anu and Padomay (and off topic, I like to think of their creation story like our own universe with Space-Time....Space and Time combined and began to expand together to create the universe...just like Stasis and Change combined to create the TES universe). The reason why I say this is because Order and Chaos don't necessarily mean Stasis and/or Change, and vice versa. To bring Order to something, you would be changing something. Now the nature of that change, whether malevolent or benevolent is in the eye of the beholder.

For example: Jyggalag is the Daedric Prince of Order. Sounds contradictory, but if you think about it in terms of Stasis and Change, it is not. (this will get a bit silly here for the sake of artistic illustration, so bear with me). Think of Jyggalag as the Ultimate Personification of OCD. If he enters a room and thinks one thing is out of place, he might unlease his complete wrath upon the room and destroy it to convert everything into ash, hence creating Order. The thing is he changed something. Now why he destroyed it might be beyond us, but to him that was the way to make things in order (maybe he calculated that the one thing could never be truly resolved, so destruction was the only option). In another scenerio, maybe he just moves a piece of furniture 3 inches and boom, it's now Feng Shui. Both times there was, in his eyes, Chaos in the Stasis, and brought Order through Change.

Again, the motives and methods of the Daedra are neither benevolent or malevolent, they are just what they are: Personifications of Change. Whether that change brings Order, Chaos, Destruction, Creation, Life, Death....etc, all that matters is that they see something that needs to be changed within their sphere, and they go about doing it.

Bear in mind this whole polarized "Aedra = Stasis, Daedra = Change" thing is way off track. Literally the only difference between the Aedra and the Daedra? The Aedra are the ones that directly contributed to the Mundus's creation (some willingly, others because they really were trapped and had nowhere else to go). The Daedra are just the ones that didn't take part, but also didn't bail out to Aetherius with the rest of the et'Ada and instead stuck around to poke at the Mundus when the dust settled. The Daedra can think and create just fine, sure they have their preferred spheres, but don't we all prefer to stick to what we know for the most part?

You can say the Daedric spheres are often change-related, but i can say the exact same thing about the Aedric spheres. Birth, seasons, nature, work, all are very much change-related.

This isn't complicated. He's a Star Daedra, just like Meridia: an Anuic being that didn't participate in Creation, but also didn't make it back to Aethurius.

While this isn't necessarily the point of this thread, I would like to bring up something that's been bothering me for a while now.

I replayed the Peryite's shrine quest in Skyrim, and at the very end of the quest after talking to Peryite again he ended with "And remember: Embrace order."

Like... what? The whole quest feels off, too: Its entire objective is to go into a den of Peryite worshipers and kill them all to stop whatever disease it is they've been making. When giving the quest, he claims they've gone "rogue" or something, but going through the dungeon you find absolutely no evidence of any disobedience or betrayal on their part. On the contrary, there are s few snippets of dialogue and journals from the followers that seem to suggest they're all very devoted and very confused as to why they haven't been in contact with Peryite for some unknown reason.

I think it's because Peryite's dead. Or, as dead as a daedric prince could be; the first casualty in the new coming of the Greymarch, the first opponent to be crushed under the boot of order. It would make sense: Ol' Jyggy wouldn't want them to finish their little project and release all that chaotic disease everywhere. Honestly, I've been thinking about writing a theory about it for months now, but always think "Nah, it's so obvious; someone must've written about it already and it's gotten buried or forgotten".

What also bothered me was when I checked the UESP to make sure I wasn't somehow imagining Peryite said that, there was no such line of dialogue on it; but I distinctly remember it being said and what I thought when he said it. While it's possible the UESP is wrong, I think maybe they did something like how Oblivion's Sheogorath shrine quest got updated after SI, that maybe they added that line later. If someone could do that quest again and confirm that for me it'd certainly make me feel less crazy.

I haven't tracked down the dialogue, but i took a look at the regular TES wiki page. Still doesn't have the full dialogue, but i gotta say, it's raising some red flags that Peryite was essentially quarantining the Afflicted in Bthardamz and then you conveniently get sent to clear them all out.