Jyggalag's future. How he can be involved in the next TES... : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:32 am

This is a specific topic on how Jyggalag SPECIFICALLY could possibly participate in the next TES in some tangible presence. This is not a general topic on the next TES wishlists or general ideas. For those, please use http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1486861-official-beyond-skyrim-tes-vi-32/ for general discussion and http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1485490-tes-vi-location-and-setting-speculation/ for location and setting. Thank you.

Now, onto the topic at hand. Jyggalag, Prince of Order. Most obscure of all the Princes. The enigma of the Daedric Principalities. The brutal and cold image of Anui-El whom is Anu. He is Auri-El's less friendly and Daedric mirror-brother. As surely as Sheogorath is the extreme image of Sithis, and brother-mirror of Lorkhan whom is Padhome. We encounter the Crystal God in TES IV Oblivion's expansion DLC: Shivering Isles. It is imperative that you play through that amazing DLC so you can not only understand what I am talking about, but to add to this discussion too! :read:

Those whom have finished Shivering Isles know the generalities of what transpired. He was defeated, Sheogorath was freed, and the Greymarch was finally - permanently ended. Jyggalag walks the realm of Oblivion once more!^[1] This has many implications. But where was he in Skyrim? Rebuilding? Vacationing? Uninterested in mortal affairs? Not yet powerful enough to re-manifest on Tamriel as he surely did in forgotten times?

^[1]In-game source points to Jyggalag being free based on numerous dialogue all agreeing on consistent terms that all agree & allude to Jyggalag being free and separate from Sheogorath at long last.

In addition, we have an out-of-game text written by currently-employed major Bethesda Devs: http://www.imperial-library.info/node/2234

Please keep this in mind before you start posting speculation on him not being free or dead or whatever. This is not the purpose of this thread.

In what capacity could Jyggalag return? How could he play a minor, major, or completely un-involved role in the next TES' MQ? Would he have his own Daedric shrine and quest[s]? Let your imagination go wild! Even if imagination is considered a sin by Jyggalag as it introduces Padome.

To start off, I shall post my own theory on how he could play a major role... and involve the Thalmor too while we are it! Since they kind of go hand-to-hand! [What in Sheogorath's madness are you talking about?? lol??]

My theory: in spoilers.[to reduce page clutter.]

Spoiler

Consider this: Crystal-like-Law is destroyed, Altmer are desperate. Jyggalag is freed from Sheo around the same time the Thalmor are formed. Who is Jyggalag? Their Knight in CRYSTAL armor. Wink, wink. It would explain their extreme view on their corrupted version of true anuisim. Jyggalag is the extreme end of perfect order.

That and it gives Jyggalag solid involvement in the next TES

The whole Jyggalag-Sheo thing was a mirror image of Auri-El/Lorkhan.

Jyggalag represents Auri-El of Anui-El. Sheogorath represents Lorkhan of Sithis.

Ummmm so what?? Let me go into detail here.

Auri-El seems quite lethargic in his purpose. So if he will no longer enforce Anui-El's will, then who will?(Thalmor extremist perspective) It would have to be Jyggalag then, as befits his role. His sphere. And of course, his resemblance to Crystal-Like-Law. Let's break it down.

*cue insane rambling*

Anui-El begat Auri-El to maintain the Status Quo. To prevent chaos, or the "Trick." Auri-El failed. And now he resides in Aetherius, doing... nothing.

Jyggalag is Anui-El(Order) extreme.

Sithis begat Lorkhan to counter-wise, destroy the universe. The Is-Not. But... Lorkhan failed. And now... he's "dead."

Sheogorath is Sithis(Chaos) extreme.

Both Auri-El and Lorkhan failed to accomplish their intrinsic task as dictated by their primordial "Father."

So if Sheogorath is an extension of Lorkhan. Then wouldn't that like-wise, make Jyggalag an extension of Auri-El? If Sheogorath is Lorkhan's Divine Spark. Then Jyggalag is Auri-El's [insert catchy term]?

Sheogorath is the weapon of Sithis. If left unchecked, there would only be Chaos.

Jyggalag is the weapon of Anui-El. If left unchecked, there would only be Order.

Or maybe I'm just rambling here...

Actually, I can stretch it even more...

Lorkhan is "dead." But then we have Talos come along and mantle him. Therefore, that would make him Lorkhan incarnate.

8 + 1 = 9

Auri-El is "inactive." But now we have Jyggalag freed from Sheogorath. With the CoC mantling Sheogorath... this rather ironically, gives birth to his antithesis, Jyggalag.

16 + 1 = 17

17 - 9 = 8

16 - 8 = 8

So Jyggalag would now be Talos' antithesis. So if Talos is keeping Mundus(the Prison) together, then Jyggalag is the force to remove the glue. To break the Prison! He's a threat to Talos. Jyggalag is the answer to the Thalmor's prayers.

But if so, then where does that leave Sheogorath in the scheme of things? A wildcard? Because he is so extreme, he supports no one. But he has to inevitably conflict with Jyggalag right? However, this conflict was the Greymarch. So if the Greymarch is ended, then Sheogorath no longer anchors Jyggalag... And if Jyggalag can't enforce his sphere on Oblivion(the Greymarch) then that leaves Mundus. And Mundus' champion is Talos. 17 - 9 = 8 because 16 - 8 = 8

Talos and Jyggalag are oddities in this kalpa.

Jyggalag is the Crystal God. His Knights are crystal constructs, and they came from crystalline obelisks during the Greymarch. A lot of crystals there. Now take into consideration Crystal-Like-Law. A literal crystalline tower that housed all of the Aldmeri culture that kept the Altmer, well "pure" and true to their ways even in the harshest of times.

Oblivion crisis happens and the Daedra completely raze the tower to the ground. Around the same time, the Oblivion crisis ends, Jyggalag is freed. Thalmor are formed. Now I'm not saying they were Jyggy cultists at first... but they likely caught his attention(or he caught their attention) and thus a connection was made. The crystalline Daedra, hated by his Daedric brethren happens to be the one Daedra these crazy Altmer can relate with, and he also just so happens to represent crystals...

His sphere and methods no doubt seduced them, and they likely see him as their fallen champion renewed, or something along those lines. So now we have the Thalmor in full force 100 years later, trying to achieve their goal of perfect order and Stasis, which fits in nicely with Jyggy's sphere of order and cold logic.

Jyggalag could in theory, benefit from this. Mundus is chaos, and in mythology, men are the children of Lorkhan who is chaos. Destroying that and unbinding the Dragon would lead to permanent Stasis.

Assuming it all works of course, but I doubt we'll find out... Doesn't mean Jyggy and the Thalmor won't try. Or perhaps the Thalmor seek to use Jyggalag as a means. If the Thalmor are destined to fail then Jyggalag would predict this. So why go along with it? Jyggy is smarter than he looks. He like-wise sees the Thalmor as a means to his end. Through their vigorous worship and enactment of his sphere, he gains power from the whole ordeal. Whether the Thalmor fail or not is irrelevant to him. either way, he gains the necessary influence to manifest on Nirn the same way the other Principalities do. And now he can work on his obsession with Order on the Arena where it's fair game. Instead of pissing off the other Princes again.

It's highly likely his absence in Skyrim is due to him taking the time to obsessively rebuild his own realm with meticulous detail. Could also be collaborating with the Thalmor during his leisure time of course.

The main crux of all this: Jyggalag gains the Thalmor as followers who INVOKE his sphere by obsessing with Order, and attacking other nations for that purpose. By gaining servitude, he'll be able to make his presence known to the people of Tamriel. Specifically, the OCD people obsessed with order and what-not. He wants to play the same game his brothers are playing. He wants to enforce HIS sphere on Mundus along with his brothers enforcing their crap down their followers throats.

http://i.imgur.com/RjLObgR.jpg

Please keep the discussion Orderly. *ahem*

» Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:44 am

I so badly want this to be the case. His absence from Skyrim was grating, but kind of understandable - is 200 years enough time for a Prince to not only rebuild his realm, but begin/maintain a cult following?

I can't help but think that with Auri-El ascended, and their means to that end destroyed (Crystal-like-Law), the Thalmor would be desperate. Desperate people do desperate things; it doesn't seem too far fetched for them to be consorting with a Daedra of Order. I wonder how the general Altmer populace would react if this was "well known" however?

If Jyggalag is involved, it could the 'endgame' of a civil-waresque sidestory in the next TES to disrupt or maintain the Thalmor order established in whatever Dominion province you're in - whether that be Valenwood or Elsweyr. I don't think they've introduced the Thalmor to only use them for a couple of games - we won't topple them in VI, but its entirely possible that Jyg becomes a major threat throughout the next couple of games.

Edit: I just realised the "The Elder Scrolls VI: Greymarch" would be a badass title. A Greymarch across Nirn instead of only the Isles would be ... epic.

» Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:53 am

As much as i agree with this... I don't buy into the Thalmor-Jyggalag thing.

Mainly because of the whole pursuit of the Dawn and hatred of the current status quo the Thalmor have. They don't hate Talos because of his Lorkhan/Padomic alignment, they hate him because he is a cementing pillar of reality.

There's also nothing to indicate that the Thalmor are hurting from the loss of Crystal-like-law. In fact, i suspect that they may have had something to do with its destruction, or at least the fact all their rivals took shelter within it. The destruction of the Towers is part of their agenda, so why would the loss of Crystal-like-law make them desperate?

Then there's the end-game problem. The Thalmor think that returning to the Dawn is to return to limitless potential as gods. Potential = Change, so the Thalmor THINK they are bringing about change and potential, regardless of the static lack of potential the Dawn really had. If the Thalmor think they are driving change, why would they align with a manifestation of absolute stasis?

» Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:25 am

As far as I'm aware, this agenda only began after their own tower fell. I could be wrong though. I thought Crystal-like-Law was thought to be, by the Altmer in general, their path to ascendancy as exhibited by Auri-El?

» Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:39 am

Well, admittedly i don't know how far back the plan goes. However, something like un-making reality doesn't seem like the sort of idea you cook up while you're becoming an ascendant power. It's the type of thing which DRIVES ascendancy. Not to mention the research that had to go into the whole plan. At the very least, the understanding of the stones and the towers pre-dates Jyggalg's return, meaning he is unlikely to be tied to the root of the Thalmor plan (the Thalmor's political maneuvering starting before the Oblivion Crisis). You also have the fact that, undoubtedly, some of the Thalmor leaders from the First Dominion would have witnessed the ascension of Tiber Septim and the transformation of Cyrodiil, triggering investigation into the basic structures of Mundus since he clearly didn't use a Tower to escape.

At the same time, the Thalmor are not puritan Altmer. They were radicals on the fringes of Altmer leadership and society, seeking what they view as their birthright, not following in the idea of ascendancy. I think it fits the Thalmor far more to have been planning the destruction of the Towers for a long, long time, viewing the whole ascendancy through the Towers as a failed ideal (i mean, lest face it... We're still not entirely sure Auri'el even did it) and that it's time to put THEIR way to the test.