katana? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:23 pm

Didn't a dev say the Redguard were supposed to be samurai-like or something?

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:49 pm

If you ask me, the Akavir/Blades armor looks more Roman than Asian

If Tsaesci really become familiar with bodyarmor only in Cyrodiil, than Blades Armor must be inversely western-influenced asian armor.

The TIL article does say that the tanto, wakizashi, and katana are of Akaviri origin - I'm not disputing that.

Namely, Tsaesci origin.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:03 pm

I don't believe "samurai" suits the orc mentality. Maybe the argonians, but not the orcs as a whole. Pro Trinimac orsimer might be that way, but Mauloch's children strike me as a social niche of the "disposessed," similar to ICP teens. The kind of person who likes the Cyrodiil Dark Brotherhood, but may not have the stones to murder, so they hang out at shrines and beat down on pilgrims.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:05 pm

Actually the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/guide-akavir#influence would indeed suggest that everything asian is Akaviri, or at least all the Japanese swords are. But who knows, I don't think Bethesda care to justify all the aesthetic properties of everything in the game.

I think it is just http://www.imperial-library.info/content/general-elder-scrolls-weaseling.

"Daikatana" is not a correct Japanese word.

Daikatana is an Akaviri weapon. "Daikatana" is a word from the Akaviri language, not from Japanese. It sounds Japansese by pure coincidence.

Uh-huh.

The point is that "katana" translates into "sword." So... why not call it a sword? Same thing with Claymore (literally "great sword"). If we are in a fantasy world and it is translated into English for us, then everything should be translated, you know what I mean?

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:34 pm

The point is that "katana" translates into "sword." So... why not call it a sword?

Because "sword" is generic word, and "katana" refers to specific design, resembling our world katanas (though tamrielic katanas look less curved than real katanas to me).

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:47 pm

Why did noone mention yet that the Orcish "samurai" armor is based on Altmer designs (as is the dunmer glass armor)?

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:24 am

The Altmer are effeminate like that.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:02 pm

Why did noone mention yet that the Orcish "samurai" armor is based on Altmer designs (as is the dunmer glass armor)?

they are? Do you know of any books that say that?

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:43 am

I don't think we're reading the same article. The TIL article does say that the tanto, wakizashi, and katana are of Akaviri origin - I'm not disputing that. When you look at the two Akaviri inspired armors, however, they look anything but Asian. The Blades armor most closely resembles Roman lorica segmentata, and the Dragonscale is dragonscale. Notice that there is no mention of the Orcish armor, which is quite reminiscent of Japanese armor. I'm pretty sure there are other asian influences in TES, I just can't think of them right now (this post will probably be edited when I do).

The Blades armor does look vaguely Roman, but it's not called "Akaviri" anywhere. The Blades are an Imperial institution, not a uniquely Akaviri one. So I'd think you could expect Imperial influences as well as Akaviri ones, just as there were times when the Empire was ruled by the Akaviri and times when it was native.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:26 pm

See I thought such a thing would have come from Yokuda.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:28 pm

Why did noone mention yet that the Orcish "samurai" armor is based on Altmer designs (as is the dunmer glass armor)?

Eh, wha? We have yet to see altmer armor designs, how do you somehow know? Also, glass in both MW and OB it doesn't look like samurai armor at all, or having any influence.

Just as a precaution, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW_Armor_OrcishM.jpg

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:49 am

About the Orcish armor - it's said so on the http://elderscrolls.com/games/morrowind_armor_02.htm

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:45 pm

Eh, wha? We have yet to see altmer armor designs, how do you somehow know? Also, glass in both MW and OB it doesn't look like samurai armor at all, or having any influence.

Just as a precaution, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW_Armor_OrcishM.jpg

The armor codex said that both glass and orcish armor were based on High Elven designs, and while the glass armor in Morrowind isn't traditional samurai armor, it is definitely based on a japanese cartoon.

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:57 am

Bleh, stupid hidden codexs. I concede. BUT!!!! This still doesn't mean everything Asian is Akaviri! It's also merish!

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:42 pm

Bleh, stupid hidden codexs. I concede. BUT!!!! This still doesn't mean everything Asian is Akaviri! It's also merish!

Codices, grasshoppa. Codices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzyXTUE6XWw

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:40 pm

I know

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:45 pm

I know you know.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:19 pm

Bleh, stupid hidden codexs. I concede. BUT!!!! This still doesn't mean everything Asian is Akaviri! It's also merish!

Yup, it's an answer I like. Katanas, Daikatanas, Tantos, and Wakizashis were common enough in High Rock and Hammerfell that I wouldn't expect them to be only from the Tsaesci.

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:40 am

Yup, it's an answer I like. Katanas, Daikatanas, Tantos, and Wakizashis were common enough in High Rock and Hammerfell that I wouldn't expect them to be only from the Tsaesci.

They had to originate somewhere, though... that's like saying because Toyota cars are common in North America they didn't all originate in Japan. The design certainly did.. there's a such a thing as a Breton smith copying the design of an Akaviri swordsmith.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:51 pm

The aldmer were there before the tscaeci (remember, bretons came about from centuries of aldmer-nedic breeding), and the codex does mention that orsimer armor is based on the armor designs of the altmer, it's a MUCH more logical step to say it was the altmer or aldmer who came up with the more Asian looking weapons and armor. I think too many people are giving Akavir too much credit with everything Asian influenced, just because it's a mysterious east and their names sound Asian.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:47 pm

...it was the altmer or aldmer who came up with the more Asian looking weapons and armor.

The current official image of an Altmer, seen http://www.elderscrolls.com/codex/races_highelf.htm, appears vaguely Asian in style, for what little that's worth (the same argument could be made of a few other such images).

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:08 pm

The aldmer were there before the tscaeci (remember, bretons came about from centuries of aldmer-nedic breeding), and the codex does mention that orsimer armor is based on the armor designs of the altmer, it's a MUCH more logical step to say it was the altmer or aldmer who came up with the more Asian looking weapons and armor. I think too many people are giving Akavir too much credit with everything Asian influenced, just because it's a mysterious east and their names sound Asian.

If that was the case, then there should be much more Asian-looking style in Tamriel, as supposedly, a lot of the Empire's arts and crafts are based on that of the Aldmer.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:13 pm

If that was the case, then there should be much more Asian-looking style in Tamriel, as supposedly, a lot of the Empire's arts and crafts are based on that of the Aldmer.

Eh, I'd say more like Aleyid, but that was crushed a long time ago, giving the Cyrodiilics 1000s of years to make something else. Also, the altmer are quite isolationist, so I wouldn't expect much export. And as it looks, it's weapons, armor, and cloths.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:40 pm

Eh, I'd say more like Aleyid, but that was crushed a long time ago, giving the Cyrodiilics 1000s of years to make something else. Also, the altmer are quite isolationist, so I wouldn't expect much export. And as it looks, it's weapons, armor, and cloths.

The link cited by Leyic above says otherwise. Besides, supposedly the Alyeid themselves were descended of the Altmer.

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:49 am

so are the dunmer, bosmer, and pretty much every mer; they're all decedents of aldmer

Also, it's "and most of the Empire's arts, crafts, and sciences are derived from High Elven traditions." So, Cyrodiil added their own flava.