katana? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:42 pm

Hey guys I just have a quick question. From what country does the katana come from? Originally I mean.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:43 pm

Hey guys I just have a quick question. From what country does the katana come from? Originally I mean.

Japan.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:23 am

The above post aside, in the context of Tamriel, katanas, and most other signs of oriental elements in Tamrielic culture come from Akavir. Presumably the cultures there would bear some resemblance to real life oriental cultures, of course since we've never seen Akavir itself, it's impossible to be sure just how close the resemblance is. We can only speculate from what information on the continent and influence of its culture we've seen so far.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:03 pm

The above post aside, in the context of Tamriel, katanas, and most other signs of oriental elements in Tamrielic culture come from Akavir. Presumably the cultures there would bear some resemblance to real life oriental cultures, of course since we've never seen Akavir itself, it's impossible to be sure just how close the resemblance is. We can only speculate from what information on the continent and influence of its culture we've seen so far.

Correct me if Im wrong, but arent Alkavir and Altmer related in some way?

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:39 pm

Correct me if Im wrong, but arent Alkavir and Altmer related in some way?

The altmer is just a race of elves, Akavir is an entire continent. Unless you want to metaphysically pull crap out to say that the altmer are related to pieces of rock and blah blah blah.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:32 am

Correct me if Im wrong, but arent Alkavir and Altmer related in some way?

Gold-skinned goblin slave-masters, they are.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:40 pm

Gold-skinned goblin slave-masters, they are.

I think thats the ayield not the high elves.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:20 am

I think thats the ayield not the high elves.

No, Ayleidi used humans instead of goblins.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:17 pm

No, Ayleidi used humans instead of goblins.

Thanks for correcting me. : )

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:21 pm

The ka po tun, an Akaviri race, is tangentially related to the Altmer. Their king, Tosh Ra'ka, anyway. The po don't build towers, so elven dosn't suit them. Nope, no elves or men, in Akavir. Maybe Nerevar and his soldiers, but that's all. Sorry, friend.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:57 pm

The ka po tun, an Akaviri race, is tangentially related to the Altmer. Their king, Tosh Ra'ka, anyway. The po don't build towers, so elven dosn't suit them. Nope, no elves or men, in Akavir. Maybe Nerevar and his soldiers, but that's all. Sorry, friend.

Yep, just a bunch of snakes, tigers, monkeys, and ice demons, with only the ice demons and snakes ever making it to Tamriel's shores (pirates don't count).

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:40 am

The Katana and other exotic weapons like the Tanto and Wakazashi came from Akavir. Certain types of armor and powerful relic weapons like Duskfang/Dawnfang as well. Presumably the Tsaeci use the blades, but they don't wear armor so I'm not sure where that originated. Perhaps with another Akaviri race. They presumably all have their own culture and weapons.

I'd like to point out that the katana question comes up now and then as if it's so out of place. I'd counter that it's no more out of place than a Claymore or a Crossbow. Neither of the cultures that invented those things in the real world exist in Tamriel either.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:30 pm

You know, the Samurai esque armor worn by the Orcs in Morrowind makes me almost want to say that their culture may possess Japanese elements to an extent as well, although it'd be far safer to just say Akavir.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:28 pm

You know, the Samurai esque armor worn by the Orcs in Morrowind makes me almost want to say that their culture may possess Japanese elements to an extent as well, although it'd be far safer to just say Akavir.

Yeah, but samurai orcs sounds (and looked) cooler =/

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:56 pm

You know, the Samurai esque armor worn by the Orcs in Morrowind makes me almost want to say that their culture may possess Japanese elements to an extent as well, although it'd be far safer to just say Akavir.

It's possible that the Orcish armor is based on Akaviri designs. I do believe the ancestors of modern Orcs helped fight off the Akaviri hordes in the past. Who's to say they didn't copy and integrate certain weapon and armor designs?

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:09 pm

Because the "it came from Akavir" line gets older faster than MSG using "war economy," "metal gear," "the patriots," and "nanomachines," and that got really old really quick.

Of course that is just my opinion...I could be drunk. (blatant steal alert)

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:43 pm

Indeed. Just because something is "Asian" (a whole huge continent!) doesn't mean its Akaviri.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:19 pm

Akavir is very anologous to Asia from the real world, both in that it's the unknown East and in that it's not one single Empire but a series of smaller ones, some possibly unrecorded or misrepresented. The Tsaeci are the ones whom Tamriel has had the most direct dealings with but the Snow Demons and others attacked as well. It's possible some of their weapon and armor designs were also adopted by various Tamriel cultures. We have conflicting sources over whether Tsaeci even wore armor. The whole bad quest design of Pale Pass in Oblivion showing humanoid Akaviri invaders doesn't help.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:55 pm

That explanation makes it even worse, and it now makes Akavir much more generic mysterious Asia. I find the idea that the orcs have Japanese style on their own to be cooler than mystery east bringing their influence all over the continent, despite being an invasion force that was stamped out completely by the middle of the 2nd era (the snakemen, the snow demons only got to Morrowind)

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:30 pm

Just because something is "Asian" (a whole huge continent!) doesn't mean its Akaviri.

Even Morrowind have some Asian traits.

(the snakemen, the snow demons only got to Morrowind)

They were in Skyrim, too.

Orcs could adopt samurai designsa from Redguards, who adopted them from Akavir back in Yokuda,

.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:55 pm

Indeed. Just because something is "Asian" (a whole huge continent!) doesn't mean its Akaviri.

Blame Oblivion, where virtually all the katanas and daikatanas from Morrowind were either annihilated or relabeled as "Akaviri".

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:57 am

Er, I don't think Oblivion has anything to do with this. It only had two katanas, the Akaviri and the Blades. It is weird that there weren't more, given the Akaviri occupation of Cyrodiil, but it doesn't mean that everything Asian is Akaviri.

» Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:16 am

Er, I don't think Oblivion has anything to do with this. It only had two katanas, the Akaviri and the Blades. It is weird that there weren't more, given the Akaviri occupation of Cyrodiil, but it doesn't mean that everything Asian is Akaviri.

Actually the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/guide-akavir#influence would indeed suggest that everything asian is Akaviri, or at least all the Japanese swords are. But who knows, I don't think Bethesda care to justify all the aesthetic properties of everything in the game.

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:35 pm

If you ask me, the Akavir/Blades armor looks more Roman than Asian; only cloud ruler temple, which is Akaviri in its architect, is Asian influenced, along with their swords. Everything else is up in the air.

But people need to give the orsimer some credit, and look beyond their green skin and "ugliness".

» Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:46 pm

I don't think we're reading the same article. The TIL article does say that the tanto, wakizashi, and katana are of Akaviri origin - I'm not disputing that. When you look at the two Akaviri inspired armors, however, they look anything but Asian. The Blades armor most closely resembles Roman lorica segmentata, and the Dragonscale is dragonscale. Notice that there is no mention of the Orcish armor, which is quite reminiscent of Japanese armor. I'm pretty sure there are other asian influences in TES, I just can't think of them right now (this post will probably be edited when I do).