Keening reforged : III

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:32 pm

The readme (courtesy of Kiteflyer):

The Elder Scrolls III MORROWIND:

==================
Keening Reforged
==================

By Kiteflyer61, Jac, and Elaura

Version 2.0

1. Description
2. Requirements
3. Installing the plug-in
4. Playing the plug-in
5. Save games
6. Conflicts/Known Errors
7. Credits/Permissions received
8. Contact and Information
9. Legal Stuff/Disclaimer
10. Change Log

===============
1. DESCRIPTION
===============

This mod gives the player an opportunity to have Keening reforged into one of three other weapon types.
The player can choose between an ax, a longsword, a spear, a mace, a quarterstaff, and a crossbow and ten bolts. The new weapon retains the same stats and enchantments as the original Keening, even the same name.
You will have to wear wraithguard to safely wield the new weapon as well.

Once you have obtained Keening, speak with Yagram Bagarn in the corprusarium beneath Tel Fyr.

Bring the required items (10,000 gold, 100 dwemer coins, and the weapon you want keening converted into).
After 14 days, return to be given Keening in it's new form.

The transformation can only be done once, so make sure you choose the one you really want.

===============
2. Requirements
===============

This mod requires Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon.

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3. INSTALLING THE PLUGIN
========================

Simply extract to your morrowind\data files directory and say yes to all to overwrite.

For those who prefer to install manually, the meshes go in the data files\meshes\Kb subdirectory and the Icons go in the data files\icons\Kb subdirectory.
The meshes use vanilla textures and will be affected by texture replacers.

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4. PLAYING THE PLUGIN
=====================

From the Morrowind Launcher, select Data Files and check the box next to the Keening_Reforged_v1.esp

===============
5. SAVE GAMES
===============

This mod shouldn't affect save games in any way. If you load a save that used this mod after removing it, you will get errors. Cleaning the save should remove these errors.

============================
6. CONFLICTS / KNOWN ERRORS
============================

This mod will conflict with any mod that alters Yagram Bagarn's script and with any mod that changes Keening's ID.
Mesh and texture replacers will work normally. Other than that there shouldn't be any conflicts with other mods.

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7. CREDITS / PERMISSIONS RECEIVED
================================

First of all, thanks to Alaisiagae for the release of the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1093818-relz-keening-varieties-resource/.

Without those resources, this mod wouldn't be possible. I have zero modeling/texturing skill!

Also a special thanks to Jac and Elaura, of GHF, who took my raw idea and turned it into a wonderful little piece of dialogue.

I merely gathered all the pieces, glued them together, and wrote this readme.

Also, thanks to Bethesda, for the best CRPG ever!

==========================
8. CONTACT AND INFORMATION
==========================

You can contact me at kiteflyer61@yahoo.com or at the BSF modding forums or at http://www.fliggerty.com/.

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9. LEGAL STUFF/ DISCLAIMER
=========================

You may use this mod as you see fit but please give credit where credit is due.

Please don't upload to other sites without permission. I need to keep track of it for updates if necessary.

Thanks, and enjoy the new weapons!

=========================
10. CHANGE LOG
=========================

Version 1.0, initial release.

Version 1.1, fixed missing enchantment on spear.

Version 1.2 Lorkhanheart script now recognizes new weapons as Keening.

Version 1.3 The new weapons now have stats more suitable for their new form.

Version 2.0: Added crossbow and bolts, quarterstaff, and mace to available weapons.

Download:

http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3130
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8474

Please direct any questions or bug reports to Kiteflyer or post them here or in the GHF thread. Thanks.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:37 am

NIce work on this man. Interesting idea.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:05 am

Great way of using Alaisiagaes mod! This is going to come in handy with newer characters.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:39 pm

Awesome! Instant download, yay! :woot:

I think you came up with a brilliant method for converting keening into a different type of weapon. My thought was to just have it morph to whatever was the player's highest skill. But, I realize that would sort of be "lore breaking" in a way. But, hey, Yagrum can jury-ring Wraithguard; he could reforge keening with no problem.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:18 pm

Wow! Great idea! defo one to keep in your mod list if you like a player that doesnt use shortblade

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:51 am

Very nice idea, and applied in a good way from what I can tell from the description!

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:21 am

Thanks guys. Kiteflyer and Elaura came up with the idea, I just got it working.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:50 am

Very nice, but I find the idea that the Keening axe does 18 pts max (with a thrust, no less!) to be a bit silly. I'll be rejiggering the stats for personal use so that the modified Keenings will be useful (ostensibly the point of the mod). Not to sound harsh or anything - this will be a wonderful addition to my collection.

Edit: Looks like you left the enchantment off the spear. Needs a quick fix.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:23 pm

Very cool. Seems I will have to ditch my shield though as there are no one handed long blade options. Also, shouldn't reforging the blade require some form of large soul gem? (filled or unfilled) Keening is a powerful weapon of the old day and would require soul energy to change it, in addition to the secrets yagrum processes. It's not like in Wraithguard's case.. this is a more perfect version than a jury rigging as it keeps it's value and it is a recreation of it rather than an attempt to muck around with it and activate it.

In theory, this would be much much harder, your not hacking it, your reforming it. Therefore, as I look at the requirements, they seem a tad irrelevant to what would be needed without a gem of some sort. A large chunk of gold would be needed both to convince him to under take such a tough task and as a raw material to be melted down, and the dwemer coins would provide a source of dwemer metal. The weapon you bring provides a construct as a basis to start on, and keening would contain the bulk of the needed essence, but without soul energy there would be no feasible way of coaxing the energy out of the blade and into the new metal, especially since Yagrum doesn't have all the tools he used to, in theory, have.

Btw, shouldn't the new weapon reflect the damage and health of the one you provided? A claymore does a lot more damage than a short blade, and the health.. well have you ever seen a short blade with 1300 durability? So a larger weapon like a claymore or an axe should have just shy of 2k health easy.

I know this seems like a lot of correcting, but think of it as a compliment. It means I have enough interest in this mod that I wish for it to be the best it can be, and to that end am attempting to help.

Btw, to Alaisiagae who made the resource, Kiteflyer who made the readme, Elaura who had the idea, and of course you Jac who brought it together.. thanks all of you! It always bugged me keening was a shelf item for my charater's skill set.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:05 pm

FIrst of all, the Keening longblade is one-handed. The Dwarven claymore is simply required for raw materials. The finished weapon is not a claymore, it is a one-handed longsword.

Secondly, the dialog explains that the enchantment is in the blade, not the 'housing'. Yagrum doesn't have to tinker with the blade at all, or the enchantments, so no soulgem is required. Since the blade isn't touched, there's no 'hacking' going on.

The idea was not to make an uber-keening, just make it so players who don't specialize in shortblades can get the full potential of the original; feel free to alter the attributes of the weapons yourself, but unless Kiteflyer decides to do so, I see no reason to change anything at this time.

Thanks for the review and I hope as you play the mod, Yagrum's abilities and requirements make more sense to you.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:57 pm

The gold and coins are the necessary raw material Yagram needs to change the blade's housing. The actual damage done was not changed because it wasn't the blade that was reforged, only the housing. But, as Elaura has said, anybody's welcome to change that to suit their desires.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:05 am

Do the weapon speed and reach stats stay as per the original Keening shortblade, or do they inherit the speed/reach of the new dwemer form?

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:32 am

Very cool. Seems I will have to ditch my shield though as there are no one handed long blade options. Also, shouldn't reforging the blade require some form of large soul gem? (filled or unfilled) Keening is a powerful weapon of the old day and would require soul energy to change it, in addition to the secrets yagrum processes. It's not like in Wraithguard's case.. this is a more perfect version than a jury rigging as it keeps it's value and it is a recreation of it rather than an attempt to muck around with it and activate it.

In theory, this would be much much harder, your not hacking it, your reforming it. Therefore, as I look at the requirements, they seem a tad irrelevant to what would be needed without a gem of some sort. A large chunk of gold would be needed both to convince him to under take such a tough task and as a raw material to be melted down, and the dwemer coins would provide a source of dwemer metal. The weapon you bring provides a construct as a basis to start on, and keening would contain the bulk of the needed essence, but without soul energy there would be no feasible way of coaxing the energy out of the blade and into the new metal, especially since Yagrum doesn't have all the tools he used to, in theory, have.

Btw, shouldn't the new weapon reflect the damage and health of the one you provided? A claymore does a lot more damage than a short blade, and the health.. well have you ever seen a short blade with 1300 durability? So a larger weapon like a claymore or an axe should have just shy of 2k health easy.

I know this seems like a lot of correcting, but think of it as a compliment. It means I have enough interest in this mod that I wish for it to be the best it can be, and to that end am attempting to help.

Btw, to Alaisiagae who made the resource, Kiteflyer who made the readme, Elaura who had the idea, and of course you Jac who brought it together.. thanks all of you! It always bugged me keening was a shelf item for my charater's skill set.

Thanks for the feedback Maholix.

I actually considered changing the stats for the weapon to reflect it's new form, but couldn't settle on appropriate numbers. I don't want to turn it into an uber weapon (any more than it already is, it has a pretty hefty enchantment list), but I'll certainly change them if you all can come to a consensus on what the numbers should be.

As to the issue of not having a one handed blade, the weapon will be reforged into a dwemer longsword. The requirement for a dwemer claymore is caused by there being no dwemer longsword in vanilla MW, but the weapon will be a one handed longblade when you get it back.

To the issue of having to have a soulgem for the transformation, it just adds another complication to the dialogue (not much of one admittedly) and would be up to Jac if he wanted to add it. Jac did all the dialogue and scripts. I can add it but it would take me a while to familiarize myself with his stuff. If you look at the meshes, it appears to me like the blade of Keening is removed from one handle and attached to another. This is how I thought it made more sense since Yagram Bagarn wouldn't have access to the proper forges to really "reforge" Keening by heating it up and pounding it into a different form. The metals (coins) needed are to make the pieces that hold the blade to the new handle. Does that make sense?

@Rattlesnake... I'll check on it and upload an update if needed tomorrow.

Just for the record...

Alaisiagae made the icon and mesh resource, which sparked my idea to make the mod. Then Elaura took my rough outline and produced the great dialogue, which Jac placed in the CS and got working properly. I then wrote the readme and will be handling all the support.

A perfect example of teamwork at it's best. 8)

Thanks everyone.

KF

Edit: I type WAY too slow!

Yes, the reforged keening is identical to the original. The only thing that is changed is the weapon type (and mesh of course).

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:02 pm

KF, the spear is missing the enchantment. Let me know when you upload an update and I'll update the readme on here. Thanks.

As for the soul gem dialog: Elaura wrote all of the dialog, I just implemented it. If you want there to be a soul gem requirement, that could easily be added, I'd just need to know what type of gem holding what type of soul.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:38 pm

Thanks Jac, I'll be updating tomorrow morning. I'll let you know when it's done.

I don't think there's much need to add the soulgem, unless there's a big demand for it. I like the story like it is to be honest.

Edit: File updated to v1.1 Fixed missing enchantment on spear.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:03 am

*Sigh* Actually, I think you made them in reply to my thread, Alaisiagae.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1093595-trading-artifacts-for-other-weapons/

I guess I'll try a different undertaking for my first mod.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:25 pm

You'll have to forgive me, I believed it was a reforging based on some early ideas for this mod that came about shortly before the resource was released. I had not compared the meshes with original and saw no need to do so because I use the long sword. As the word "reforge" was commonly used, it escaped my attention that it was a refitting, especially since as you see here:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW_Artifact_Keening.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr50/Alaisiagae/Mod%20Screenshot%20MW/art_keening_lsword.jpg

The weapon I use does live true to it's name sake. The blade is longer than it was originally, despite having not I guess, been reforged. The other meshes do however appear to be much closer to it's usual size, so I guess this is something I will have to over look. I like the notion that all he could do is refit it. It's far more lore friendly.

However this brings up something else, since the blade is not being remade, one can not assume it's rusty color is based on the process it is made with. Most if not all dwemer objects have obvious signals of being based on a gold and metal blend that over time rusted over, giving it it's color. If it was brand new it would be far more golden looking. So it might be necessary to add a requirement for some scrap metal to explain the color. The requirement could be under the guise that this new gold does hold up as well as the dwemer metal he's used to working with, so he has to have some or something.

Then a rustic color makes sense to the player due to the metals used.

As for the attack adjustments, I am willing to go through some lists and see what would make sense. I'll post back when I have that info.

EDIT:

Kameko! Knew there was another before this whole thing that brought it up first, but I couldn't remember your name. Nice to see you.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:43 pm

Please don't forget the coloring brought about by the use of the original Dwemer weapon required by Yagrum. Also, just a reminder: no one who was involved in creating this mod had anything to do with creating the new Keening meshes or textures. As noted, those were a resource created by someone else. Another mod was released just yesterday which uses the same resource. Maybe you should have a look at that one and see if it suits your preference.

BTW, the term 'reforge' does not apply only to the blade of a weapon. It simply means to cast or model anew. It certainly applies to the handle/hilt of a weapon as much as it would a blade.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:43 am

Pretty sure all the Dwemer crap isn't rusted, it was just forged that color.

Which makes me wonder why Trueflame is shiny, but meh.

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:11 pm

Pretty sure all the Dwemer crap isn't rusted, it was just forged that color.

Which makes me wonder why Trueflame is shiny, but meh.

Aye, the Dwemer manipulated the Earthbones (the laws of physics on Nirn) to make their metal un-rustable/corrodable. That's why everyone goes gaga over how Dwemer weapons and armor look as new as the day they were made. And why their robots and death traps still work after thousands of years.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:27 am

I see, well I stand corrected then. You learn something every day!

As for the term of reforging, usually when someone says it in a broad sense it refers to the blade, because some as specific as the fitting is usually mentioned. I am reforging the sword implies the who object whereas I am reforging the hilt or the fitting is usually if the blade goes untouched. Either way, my point was simply that based on the terminology it was easy to make the mistake I did.

On the matter of an update, I am working on a formula for some updated damages and the like so keening is accurately portrayed as the weapon you chose. I have been anolyzing the difference between the usual dwemer short sword and keening, and then applying the figures to the other dwemer counterparts (like the axe) in a document in an attempt to recreate keening for each.

I am still working on the long sword version, as it has no dwemer counterpart, but as I was reviewing the lists on the wiki, I realized that the dwemer weapons usually come right after silver. Based on this, I know where it might fit, yet based on the stock keening's durability it may have to be moved a little further down the list than normal to reflect it being a long sword rather than the short sword it was..

As a result, I am still comparing things for the sword and deciding damages, but should have a list that can be anolyzed for correctness posted very soon, perhaps even today.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:15 am

An issue was found where if you hit the heart with one of the reforged versions of Keening, the script wouldn't track it as being hit with Keening. KF and I are working on an updated script that will allow you to use any of the four iterations on the heart.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:18 am

So here is the post I promised..

These figures were pulled from the wiki rather than the CS to aid with easier note taking so I hope the info there was correct. I include both the flat differences and the percentage in my "differences" section.. the info shown there is what I added to the stock dwemer weapons to make them "keening." I did my best to base this off of the orginal as it was my intent to add to the mod's functionality not kill it's balance. I spent a lot of time pouring over the charts trying to notice trends and were things would fit in best, just trying to get the stats right.

In fact this was my main reason for choosing to post both flat and percentage, so that my work is visable enough to provide options. In the case of where I show each weapon as keening, I went with percentages for everything but the damage, as keening has plenty of enchantments and I did not wish to over power it. I took some liberites in my examples section, but they were very slight and were in the interest of balancing out the list there.

Keening comparison and Difference Chart

Dwarven Shortsword:

Chop 7?14 Slash 7?14 Thrust 8?15

Health 1,050

Speed 2.0 Reach 1.0 Weight 8.0

Keening:

Chop 9?15 Slash 9?15 Thrust 9?18

Health 1,300 (I noticed keening tends to outwiegh an ebony in durability)

Speed 2.5 Reach 1.0 Weight 9.0

Difference:

- Weapon Damage -

Chop +2 min +1 max (28.5% min - 7% max)
Slash +2 min +1 max (28.5% min - 7% max)
Thrust +1 min +3 max (12.5% min - 20% max)

Flat figures were used to calculate damages, rather than the percentages I usually opted for in the other stats.

The percentages have been included here in case you feel they are a better choice.

- Weapon Health -

+250 (researched as a 23.8 percentage increase)

- Weapon Weight -

+1 (researched as a 12.5 percentage increase)

- Weapon Speed -

+0.5 (researched as a 25 percentage increase)

== Weapon Examples ==

AXE:

Dwarven War Axe

Weight 24.0 health 2,000 Chop 1?24 slash 1?13 thrust 1?3 speed 1.25

- AS KEENING

Weight 27.0 Health 2,475 Chop 3-25 slash 3-14 Thrust 2-6 speed 1.60

SPEAR:

Dwarven Spear

Weight 14.0 Health 1,400 Chop 2?5 slash 2?5 Thrust 5?21 speed 1.00

- AS KEENING

Weight 16.0 Health 1,733 Chop 4-6 slash 4-6 Thrust 6-24 speed 1.25

Now, the long sword was toughest, because I had to create a well balanced one handed long sword out of thin air as the basis. I did my best to fit it into the table with the other long swords as well as the other keening weapons like the spear, axe and short sword.

Because I had to create the normal one most of the way to get one handed keening's stats, I finished it up completely. Therefore it has a few irreverent stats like enchantment and gold worth. This way if anyone wishes to add a dwemer one hander to a mod in the future the work is done for you.

Proposed Solution:

LONG SWORD:

Dwemer Long Sword

Weight 16.0 Health 1,750 Chop 2-25 Slash 1-30 Thrust 3-25 Speed 1.30 Enchantment 5

reach 1.0 Value 350

- AS KEENING

Weight 18.0 Health 2,165 Chop 4-26 Slash 3-31 Thrust 4-28 Speed 1.60

Well that's it folks and hope you like it!

» Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:02 pm

Keening reforged has been updated at GHF and PES to version 1.2. The lorkhanheart script will now recognize the new weapons as keening.

THank you Maholix. That looks like a nice set of stats for the new weapons. I'd like to get some more opinions on the stats from other users before I implement it but I see no reason not to update the stats. It's just a matter of the numbers.

» Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:51 am

To me, the Keenings damage and health should be on-par with artifacts like Trueflame and Hircine's Spear, etc. About 110% better than a Daedric equivalent in terms of damage and health.