I'm glad that understanding is finally starting to come around to what my point was cheers guys :foodndrink: I really like this method and was not bashing it, my concern is the taste (if you can understand the metaphor) Changing the word "perks" to something else "traits" has been mentioned and "feats" have also been mentioned. In OB you had one ability you could toggel based on your birthsign, it was usually pretty lame, but I'd like to keep it that way, I do not want perks that need to be activated in that way, like perks in OB were passive I want them to stay passive. Another perk which I don't want added would be "The mysterious mage" perk :facepalm: things like that, that would taint the flavor of the game. Thank you for posting your comments

However Badass the mysterious mage would be, I'm not going to argue against you. xD I agree.

Pasting a new name over perks seems a little redundant, but meh. Wouldn't bother me. Its not like they're giving you a pip boy. Just taking a few ideas they think might work better. I'd hardly even call it bringing fallout into TES. Just barely.

Your welcome friend I think "perks" could add a layer of depth to The Elder Scrolls, I wanted the system to be more fleshed out in a way to make my character unique, so I could build my own mage, spellsword or nightblade the way they was meant to be. They might change the name perks to something else I think they will, I think the perk system would add a great layer of depth and complexity to Skyrim.

Come on i doubt you can argue in a logic way with me IF i elaborate my thinking,

And NO my mind is never set. Its just hard to find someone to be coherent and not blind enought.

And yes after Oblivion and SKYRIM dragon fighting set, scrap attributes and skills i have very few to no faith left.

But you re very welcome to try to give some hope to my hope. And sincerely i hope you succeed.

Sorry IMHO, the game is worked to be sellable, until Oblivion i also tought this.
My sig can t show it in a more meaningfull way.

Keep hope my friend, I do believe Skyrim will be delicious! I wouldn't be spending $360 to get the game and a PS3 otherwise. I must keep hope

IF perks are branched over time, then the perks your all singing about are, as someone sayd, nothing but Skill tree, and TES has become the FIRST SANDBOX SINGLE PLAYER MMO. HURRAY!!!

fleshing out Oblivion's perk system totally kills the spirit of the game guys!!!!



...lawl...

Dozens of AAA srpg's have skill trees

More depth is just that, more depth.

Do yourself a favour, play it on a PC and enjoy the tons of mods that in the last resort are the only hope. Today you can plug your PC on any television, multiple screen, and let it sleep being ready faster than any console.

Point of interest. In Daggerfall you could buy a cart for your horse to pull, and load your gear in that, thus saving encumbrance a great deal. That is similar to a pack mule from Fallout.

WOW really! That would be cool (I admit it...I never did play daggerfall...heard it's freeware now though, so I might give it a try!)!

My friend, insulting the possilbe lack of logic in my brain was a little much. <_<

*cracks knuckles*

I'll start with Perks. The fact that they are being called perks should be no cause for worry. What was a birth sign, at its core? I feel that it was a perk that you took at the beginning of a game. It gave you a slight bonus in a specific field that could be a bonus to your chosen class. So, in my oppinion, they just changed the name. They could vary well just call the first perks you choos birth signs, and they could very well be the same thing. As for perks you gain as you level up, there is still no reason to fret. Each perk you choose could give you a boost in your chosen field, but be careful. You only get perks for the first 50 levels, so after that your done. That means you have to plan your path carfully. If you want to be a true master of the blade, you may need to give up some perks that would help you gain money, or help people think better of you easier.

Less skills? Giving up before we even know what is where is not considered being blind and not even giving it a chance? Sure, you could worry a little about that there are less of them, but it seems unfair to give up almost completely on the dev before we know exactly what is where.

Fighting dragons? Dragons have played a big part of lore for TES, even though we have seen few if any. Now they are coming, and we need to fight them. Compairing dragon fights seems unfair to compair them to Oblivion gates. Gates to Oblivion lead to a different plain that was filled with monsters that tried to kill us, untill we took a stone at the top of a tower that magically transported us back to Tamriel. Dragons will probably fly high above us, breath fire down on us, straif us, try and eat us, and they are smart. They have reasons for what they do. That seems different than many dragons we see in the multi-media that are just beasts that try to kill people.

Giving up faith before you've even seen much of anything is a bit harsh, and unfair to the devs. They've worked hard to not fall into a rut of the same thing after the same thing, this time more shiney. They're working hard, give them some credit where credit is due. Skyrim could be so much, and give up almost completely is...well, as you say close minded. And you say your not, so give these features a chance before you give up on them.

Well if you like to eat [censored] (read it play a game that stamp RPG on the box but that is anything but a RPG) be my guestBut don t expect people knowing what a RPG is about to goble that PERKS are more death.
As i sayd perks are the lazy way to do the right think. And as IMHO there no a right way to do the right thing lazily, i m sorry.
You must be TODD team when he declares that a race game can be a RPG, you probably think Quake and COD are RPG, because in the end you inmpersonate someone your not.

I honestly don't know how to respond to that. When I said AAA SRPG's thats exactly what I meant.

Not quake, not racers...


It's a proven system and adds depth.

What other ideas/mechanics from fallout do you not want? Comapnions, mainquest ending, etc?

This thread should just be called the "I Don't Want Perks"

sorry my friend I have to stop you. He was talking about a D&D type RPG. It's very easy I have a level 5 dwarf and I'm talking to my friend a lv 7 elf we get in a fight and he challenges me to a race we enter the race rolling our stats and modifiers and in the end one will be the victor. So yes you can have a racing game as an RPG you can literally have anything be an RPG, even (though unfortunately) an RPG video game, just have Pheonix Wright Ace attorney have to race to get to places, he's still role playing but racing got included .

There is something the fallout series could contribute to the elderscrolls one. The companion system in new vegas looked really solid and would be a cool addition to the series along with the companion wheel although instead of a green wheen it could be some medieval sundial thing with an arrow on it.

Some of the companion mods for oblivion were probably very tricky to implement to scripters and for someone like me who has no patience and not a natural scripter it would be such a godsend if there was already a baseline to start with.

Ok different company did new vegas but it worked well and Obsidan did seem to take a couple of ideas from the fallout 3 community or at least were inspired by some so bethesda should maybe keep an eye on some of the cool features like that.

Also the blacksmithing thats going to be in game could work well with the whole workbench recipe theme that worked so well in the fallout games. Mine for gold and silver and kill animals for hides then combine them to make the swords, sheathes and armours.

That title would not fit, if you read the thread you'd see that I do want perks, despite popular opinion saying I don't

Also I really don't want a "Companion system" I don't know how NV was, but I if we do have companions I want it to be someone I choose to become good friends with and choose to have as a companion. Otherwise I prefer to fly solo.

FO3's levelling system is 10 times better than oblivions. Not because it's good, but because oblivion's is so bad.

I don't mind peoples opinions on perks.

I just wish you titled your thread better or went into other aspects about Fallout ideas not being in Skyrim.

Some I do not want:

VATS for sure
Over shoulder camera is annoying


Consideration:
Companions - only want them if done well.

I would like perks but I would implement them differently. Each skill would have there quarter level of 25 and each time you raised a skill to the 25 point you could pick a perk from a "pool" of perks that matched with the skill or related attribute with the skill. But thats just me.

That Idea isn't too bad, but the companion Idea (as I've stated in the companion thread) I did not want it, it's confirmed to be in, I don't want to "HAVE" to have a companion least of all for quest. I personally would only accept one guy to come with me, and only if they're fun to have around and flow well enough in my company.

Thats mean what i fear. I don t mind perks at game start, really.
But perks you take at each lvl ? Those arent perks those are a skill tree.
Now WHY i call this kind of [censored] lazy work, and why they arent RPG feature.
First of all you MUST take wage that RPG come from pen and paper, and thats where i come, and thats where i will ever stand.
Now does that mean THAT nothing can be bring up to date... HELL NO!!!

So what does it mean:
It means simple that a character is created with attributes, that can be brought by luck only or luck and tempered by choice, or choice only.
What attributes are? They are your fisrt set of choices to create what you want the way you want.
And they are fundamental as they will, with class choice (or creation) fundamentally affect the rest of your digital or parper incarnation as they will directly affect skills. Attributes are usually minimally movables or even static, or they can evolve to a potential or decrease due to several factor.

Then comes skills the second layer. Skills are your second set of choices, they are totally at your will , they will evolve with you by use , by lvl, or both, the way you want. But each choice came as a trade off.
Each skill affect one aspect of what you can do. Thats the tricky part for the game. Skills decide if you can or not climb that wall if you cannot understand parcially understand or totally understand that foreigner language, if you are able to notice that detail or how good you are to detect a lie, a hidden loot on a body, a secrep passage or see that enemy stalking you.
The problem with skills is the fact that you have to set the game so the SKILLS are USEFULL AND NEANINGFULL, and more, that when possible they can be combined. (Jump and climb for example)

Then come the third layer called perks, they usually are choosen at character creation, they can give you advantages, hamper you or be a trade off. They can affect skills, attributes, both or not. And then you usually only get another in X lvlx.

SO, now you should be able to see Perks give much less work for developpers but also make the game much "dumbed down" then much less interesting because it reduce tremendously the possibilities.
And when you combined what is being made:

Attribute automation (WOW, BIABLO3, MMOs)
Less skill and less skill importance (Less uniqueness and less gameplay features)
Perk acting as ALL MMO and wanna be RPG, hell EVEN STARCRAFT II HAS SKILL TREE. Is that a RPG or an action game we will get.
Damn scrap atributes and scrap skill and we got HEXXEN, a Medieval FPS!!!!

Again my friend you moss the point on the dragon on many layers;
What where Oblivion gates :
A sign of invasion that you had to fight but in the end of the day you could not enter one of then and end the game, and you would quiclkly understand:
1) fighting them was useless
2) fighting them became boring
3) fighting them was meaningless because the world wouldn t end anyway.

And what dragon (or inser any monster name like zombies or giant spiders, or venomous toads for what matters) will be:
1) The sign of an impending invasion or doom
2) Fighting them will be useless because most probably game won t have a countdown that if you dont do the main quest in X time or before X quantity of events happen the game will declare you a looser. (especially because this is a sandbox and i don t think dev would put up with that, killing another part of TES soul, other part of TES soul being TES developped as a truly RPG and not any other kind of game)
3)As it is useless to fight them you ll end up ignoring them, or they become boring justly because killing the dragon will have no meaning but LVL up, BTW you can LVL up killing zombies.
4)So they are not the main point as Oblivion gates werent the main point. Oblivion game could have been the main point if the developpers had put a little more effort in thinkering the plot and possibilities.

I may be Harsh and unfair to the dev, i agree, but who started throwing monkey dung at they re constumers. Its more than fair that i have become unfaithfull with what i have been given to me so far in the last 5 years.
And sorry what have been ′resented is far from stellar.
Bit it may still get better.

I love PNP D&D so I understand what you mean about skills, and you explained it well as to what a system like D&D is. What RPG means is Role Playing Game, which simply mean a game where you and other people play a role. You are not you, you are a robot from Vega VI or a dark elf from Kissen Wood. There are NPC non player characters and PC player Characters. There is Also a DM the dungeon master. When you buy an elder scrolls game you have chosen the "Devs" who made the game as the dungeon master, and the world that they created as your world. You also chosen their system that the DM has set when you play the game. It could be a D20 or a D100, it's all up to the DM they make the rules. If you don't like it then the hard truth is you have to find another DM or become a DM.

Adding a brand new fleshed out layer of RPG customization dumbs the game down and is somehow less work for developers.


Yeah, I think I'm finished here.