I was playing arena the other day and I noticed that the khajit aren't cat people in it. I checked on UESP and it says that they're decended from cats but they're more or less human; sometimes they paint their faces to look like their cat ancestors... I don't know what they looked like in DF but in MW they're definitely catty. Is there any explanation for this or did Beth just get more creative when MW came out?

Different forms of Khajiit based on the phases of the moons explanation.

In Arena, they're really just humans with tattoos.
In Daggerfall, they got a light fur coating on their back, but not on their belly, as well as a tail. Otherwise, still very human.
It's in Morrowind that they became a race of furries. Then Oblivion humanized them a bit more because of additional technical limitations, but they're still furries.

but no 'lore' explanation? Just Beth getting creative?

They're pretty much cat-people, so yes they're still cats but with humanish bodies and such.

Yes actually the lore does explain their different forms, it has to do with the moon cycle at the moment they are born, here's a great guide to what causes each form as well as a small description of what each looks like:

http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/raptormeatarticle1.shtml



Beth cheaped out a bit and went with one of the more humanoid forms in Oblivion because it is easier then creating another set of animation rigging...I hope they put in the extra effort to give you a variation of Khajiit forms in future games with the exception of the pure beast forms heh.

Well no. Because then Arena would have all the Khajiits from one moonphase, Daggerfall those of another and Morrowind of yet another, and Oblivion yet again another.

Which would be is silly.

But you're confusing lore with gameplay so it's okay. What can be said though is that the different appearances of the Khajiit gave form to the idea that there were different sub species.

its probably to make khajiit more unique and popular for the gameplay.

like morrowind to oblivion legion armour i guess

In the Third Edition Pocket Guide to the Empire there is some speculation on whether the Khajit are desended from elves acording to the guide they may have been Aldmeri who evolved with their enviromnets like all the other modern mer. The explanation for this is that some tribes of khajit look almost well elvish. The other theroy put forth in the Guide is that they are natural predators that evolved to domaniate their land. Infact they may be the oldest humanoids in Tamriel.

http://www.imperial-library.info/pge3/elsweyr.shtml

This is where i got that if I interprated it wrong please tell me I love to learn

The moon-phase effects which form they take in a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Khajiit (I thought it was conception, but it wasn't), so they don't morph into a new cat every moon. Generaly speaking, the larger species are up north in the desert, and the more human in the south's cities. The actual house cat sized kitties that speak are everywhere.

The Khajiit do not morph. They're not some sixteenfoldwere cat.

The moonphase at birth determines the form of the Khajiit.

http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/jobasha.shtml

Merish descent comes from words of the clanmother. Though what is actually described in there seems to be much more fundamental.

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/clanmother.shtml

Pelinals mistake is a tribute to Pelinals character at first. Much like the early Nords mistook Bretons for elves.

I agree. Its very consistent with the Anu Padomay creation theories, which makes me question its validity as being Khajiiti in origin. However, its interesting to see from a Khajiit POV.

What? No. Geez, that is practically universal and not what we're talking about.

It's about Y'ffre. He stabilized the apperance of things in Mundus, stoped them from trying to be plants, animals and people at the same time, before him people had no solid form.

Before Y'ffre did it for everybody else. Azura helped/made the Khajiit by tying them to the moons and thus making them stable.

Hence Mer and Khajiit share a common ancestor, explaining the origin of Imperial ideas that the Khajiit are Merish. Which can be considered true, but considering the lack of form it is also meaningless. The parrots and the trees would then also qualify as Merish.

They don't speak, they understand speech.

Well that's nothing special.

You think I was lying to you when I first replied?

It's called Retcon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

This quote from the 3rd ed Pocket Guide should be considered:



The others that I know of are definitely the Hist and likely the Argonians

I suppose you have to decide which load of priests and wise personages is telling the truth and how much. The Lore way is either to accept it all literally and try to reconcile the differences - which will always be impossible as new differences are continually added. Or to take the part of one lot and cling on for dear life.

You might like to note that before Plague decimated Elsweyr there were a large number of Khajiit Societies in what is now Elsweyr - and Anequina and Pellatine (mentioned by proweler above) were the survivors of that plague.

Also noteworthy is that there is one type of Khajiit who is totally unique - the Mane is the de-facto modern-day ruler and he is born as a unique Khajiit form - male, large and maned!

No, Morrowind and Oblivion khajiit are both Suthay-raht.

Certain breeds don't. Others are even capable of casting spells.

Let me introduce you to a wonderful new notion that is called "context" -- it's like a whole new dimension of thought and speech!

Here's how it works:
MB says "The actual house cat sized kitties that speak are everywhere."
I reply "They don't speak, they understand speech."
The "They" in this sentence refers to the Khajiit breed MB was speaking about, the Alfiq! How fascinating is that?

And casting spells doesn't require speaking. Does any of the character ever say a word when casting spells? How chatty do you think imps are? Sure, I know the spell that prevents one to cast is called "silence"... But it's magical silence, not normal silence: it doesn't prevent you to talk!

Point of order Chairman Gez - Imps speak - and even have their own language - as do all known Daedroth also - it's just that like Daedroth in Tamriel they are generally too busy killing mortals to talk with them normally

And cats mew, hiss and purr.

Doesn't let them talk human speech, though.

And imps aren't daedra. Sorry.

Gez, let me re-introduce you to a wonderful concept called context.

This is where I say: "Imps speak - and even have their own language - as do all known Daedroth also - it's just that like Daedroth in Tamriel they are generally too busy killing mortals to talk with them normally."

You reply: "And imps aren't daedra. Sorry"

So I then point out to you that: " 'like Daedroth' implies that they (imps) are not Daedroth, and on a point of grammar the proper word for the denizens of Oblivion is Daedroth rather than Daedra".

I have no idea what you then reply - anyone's Gez is as good as mine on that score - but before you even get the chance to respond (assumin you would want to) but I further note that: " a bit of research on the subject of Imps might convince you that Imps actually do have a spoken language and that spell-casting without intelligence is just not on."

I next suggest you consider the propositon that: "No int = no power and no innate capability to conceptualise or visualise what is required to cast. Remember that treatise on the way magica/spell casting works in TIL? That might be useful to you."

Lastly I politely suggest that: "you take a look at Arena, or even play it".

I suppose that by "Arena" you mean "Daggerfall". The language skills there weren't language skills at all, just a chance that the monsters wouldn't attack you. Even with a score of 100, you couldn't speak with them like you could speak with NPCs. And the Daggerfall language skills were never used in any of the following games, were everybody has been speaking Engl... Tamrielic. Except for a few Ehlnofex Power Words (CHIM!), some indecipherable gibberish in Dwemer, and Umaril's rants in Ayleid. Ever since Battlespire, the Daedra have spoken in Tamrielic and their alphabet is just a fancy way of writing the Latin alphabet.

But if by "Arena" you did mean "Arena", there are no imps in Arena. Nor Daedra, for that matter.

I don't really see the point of continuing this discussion for ages: the Alfiq are a form of Khajiit that cannot talk. This doesn't mean they're dumb or have no ways to communicate -- obviously, they aren't dumb or they wouldn't be able to understand language. It's just that, physiologically, they are unable to talk, their throat, tongue, vocal chords and all that stuff just do not let them do so.

This was the point of the post Dermatobia objected to by saying "but they can cast spells!"

And who cares? Casting spells and speech are two completely different and unrelated things, as explained. Again, you can speak to NPCs while magically silenced, and I'll add that you can cast spells without breaking a vow of silence.

PS: There are Ayleid crystals that cast spells at you.