: VERY mild plot general outlines revealed below.

As gamers, we all must be prepared to accept and play along the given plot. It's a matter of respect to the creator ideas and avoid storming the forums with one's own ideas believing we could do better that the authors. So I always try to adapt to the given story and just play, using my imagination to fill the holes, if necessary.

But, you know, humanity is getting better all the time. Every new generation of humans is better than the one before. So perhaps it's not a matter of age, but a matter of maturity i Warning n the gaming community. This is obviously just my opinion, but I believe that not everyone wants to impersonate a MASS MURDERER anymore.

Action is fun, shooting, explosions, etc. I don't deny. But I remember few examples, Deus Ex, Witcher, Thief and even Elder Scrolls, they all somehow incorporate the possibility to avoid the MASSACRE. If you want.

We are smarter than in the 80s. When I received the OBJECTIVE: KILL EVERYONE IN THE ROOM, and the subsequent unnecessary waste of life and resources that followed, I've asked myself (actually out loud): KILL EVERYONE... WHY?

I don't want to play as Hitler. Or Stalin. Or Truman.

If you've finished the story you surely understand what I mean.

Sorry guys, I know this has been discused, but needed to take it out anyway. End of rant.

Cheers.

(SPOILERS AHEAD) It seems to be part of the overall decision to move the game towards a shooter and away from RPG elements, some like it, some don't. I thought it made sense for the BOS to kill the institute guards, but why would they blow up the institute and kill the scientists? A bunker filled with the most advanced tech ever, I mean they almost got annihilated defending Helios one and that wasnt anything as good as this. And the railroad killing the brotherhood, that's just nonsensical.

I hope you're being sarcastic with this line. People are getting dumber and dumber and lazier and lazier and more ignorant with every generation we move forward.

Oh! and lest we forget - More and more violent.

The standard reaction is to shoot anyone who doesn't agree with you or pisses you off or, just breathes wrong. The standard answer to: "Read any good books lately" is, "books? What are books?".

Frankly, people are walking in to traffic, walls and tripping over everything because their faces are glued to some pointless screen on some pointless device.

And you can't tell me otherwise.

Your supposition that less and less people want to play a mass murderer is frankly BS. Just read these threads for goodness sake. All they want to do is murder everybody that irritates them even the slightest bit and that's true of all video game forums.

Don't tell me we're getting brighter and better. It's just the opposite. And it isn't just new generations, it's all of us.

The Kardasians are the biggest sellers in history and have done nothing. Our music is an endless whinefest of annoying perkfest. Our books are so shallow you can't even float a toy boat in them.

I fear for us.

(SPOILERS)

Well the Brotherhood wants to keep technology out of other people's hands no matter what. That's the primary goal of the Brotherhood. So if they can't easily capture technology, then they will blow it up. Plus in a battle or war, you recruit prisoners only if they surrender in the first place or aren't fighting back. A scientist that is shooting and fighting is going to be killed, and if it's easier to destroy the entire complex rather than secure the entire place, then the complex will have to be destroyed. As for the Railroad, the Brotherhood attacked the Railroad first. The Brotherhood thinks of the Railroad as an extreme cult that wants to equate machines to humans and has to be destroyed. Therefore the Railroad has to destroy the Brotherhood as war was declared on them. Makes sense to me.

To these folks i say, if you could do better we'd be playing your game

This, but angrier and with a cigarette dangling from my lip

Actually, Kells says that the railroad could hamper their efforts, and so must be destroyed. They pose no real threat in terms of a militant force, like the Minutemen, for example, but merely "a nuisance". Seems pretty shallow to me. While this could merely be a snide comment, i.e. calling a threat a nuisance simply from a superiority complex, it comes off as petty. It's doubtful the RR will rally the escaped synths to fight the BoS, but there may be some scant few who would do so if asked, or they may volunteer, even if it was to scavenge ahead of the BoS and take what little surviving tech there was to take before the BoS could get to it.


But a legit threat to the Prydwen or the Brotherhood in general? Maybe on the propaganda front at most.

Meanwhile, they all but ignore a militarized organization that has Commonwealth-spanning artillery (except of course when they fly over the Castle and get shot down).

People mistaking a ceasefire with peace, especially with games like Skyrim. Eventually the Stormcloaks and the Empire will resume fire albeit with stronger troops and higher damage. By getting rid of the problems for the people we side with, it will prevent it from occuring again. In the end, it's the matter of killing a few for the benefits of the many. It's pretty obvious that with a game related to war, eventually you have to kill the other factions. BoS's problem with synths asides, the Institute is still, in their definition, abusing the technology and only they should be able to control those technology. The Institute wouldn't give up their technology and free way of living that easily even without synths in the picture. The Railroad is not a real faction, so they could die in a ditch somewhere for all I care.

Hey the police called they have your poetry book in the lost in found.


Statistically yes the world is turning into a much better place.


And people need to stop Insulting people who have there eyes glued to screens they are reading and talking to other humans more than ever.

Plus most people on these forums say they want more peaceful solutions to quests.


I don't know what forums you've been on but most of the posters on here are bright people who make intelligent posts about how they want to improve the game.

The saltiness in this thread is a bit much. Come on guys, let's at least TRY to get along.


But yeah, no one cares about diplomacy anymore, it's "I don't like you, now I'm gonna kill you!", kinda like those thugs in the first Star Wars

Depending on the game. Diplomacy is not going to work, when the Institute and the BoS is basically wanting to have everything to themselves while the Institute wants to keep everything to themselves and the Railroad has jack to offer anyone.

Whom you can save or not depends on the setting.

In Skyrim, for example, you can broke a ceasefire between Legion and Stormies. But that is temporary: once Alduin is down, they resume their war. For Civil Wars of this kind end only when one side wins.

In New Vegas, for example, you can broker a peace between the NCR and the BoS, but ONLY if you did not change BoS's elder that guy would never broker such a peace. Mr. House and BoS will never broker a peace so you have to blow them up if you want to work with Mr. House because Mr. House and BoS can never tolerate one another due to their mutually hostile visions. You will have to kill one of them.

And now comes Fallout 4... and you have three factions that can't be at peace for LOGICAL BLEEPING REASONS YOU CAN CONCLUDE WITHOUT EVER EVEN PLAYING THE GAME.

And then you have Minutemen who can be at peace with anyone. Why can they and not others? BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE GIVEN THE GROUP THE ARE! Minutemen's ideals are not in opposition to any other group's in this setting and as such they can realistically cooperate with others. And because of that they can cooperate with others in the game.

Railroad killing the BoS is nonsensical... these people murder groups who harass Synths. BoS wants to exterminate all Synths.

Is 2 + 2 really such a hard equation?

As for the BoS, Maxson is like Lyons: he sees BoS more as a group saving the world than a group that hordes tech. There are many hints at this so when th time came, he decided to go with the minimal risk route of just blowing it up.

I can already see it...

The Railroad-BoS concordant: "The Railroad will save Synths from slavery and give them to BoS who will use them as their own slaves."

Nope, no contradiction there!

BoS will either destroy the Synths or enslave them. They won't let them walk around because it opposes their very reason for existence. As such, this is the best offer they will come up with.

And Railroad is a group that saves them from slavery. Guess what: they won't tolerate other group enslaving or killing them. As such, they won't tolerate the BoS.

The idea that diplomacy can solve any problem is utter BS. Diplomacy can rarely keep factions that aren't existentially opposed to one another at peace, yet alone groups that are existentially opposed to one another.

There should always be a way to talk yourself out of trouble, or into trouble as the case may be.

The pacifist method for the MQ in New Vegas was an awesome way to go as an alternative to shoot first, loot later method of game play.

The only factions besides the Minutemen that I could see getting along is the railroad and the Institute if things play out well. The brotherhood will do anything to achieve there goals, they do not believe in diplomacy and will not let ANYONE get in there way, so they are the most dangerous faction imo.

you do realize you don't have to blow up the institute? Your post basically contradicts itself and the op's post

The Minutemen is considered to be the "best" ending by most people because it leaves the most groups alive in general. Making a "best" ending where every faction survives will basically cheapened the other endings. It's like with ME3, why choose to save the Geths or the Quarians when you could save both or why choose to save Ashley or Kaidan if you could save both? It just takes away why there is a choice in the first place. Talking yourself out of small problems is one thing, but having a bunch of people at war for decades then some guy out of nowhere come in and everyone is now friends and holding hands just seem very unrealistic and cheapen the experience for me.

New Vegas had a good few ways to get things done there were like five ways to get into the city and none of them involved killing.

Depending on the groups. Institute and BoS can't compromise with each other, one wants to keep everything to themselves while one wants to have everything to themselves, unless you can replace Maxson with a synth, but then it would basically be an Institute victory anyway.

I agree it would be like the ncr and ceasers legion making an alliance. Never gonna happen in a million years. Fact is in life some things only can get solved with violence.


I do think there needs to be more options for solving quests.

Make a post about wanting to kill Mama Murphy, and see how many people actually disagree with you - or even offer intelligent suggestions about how the character could have been better implemented...

On topic, though (assuming generation-bashing isn't the actual topic), I'd agree with the OP that more peaceful or flexible alternatives to straight-up gun-em-down violence would have been very welcome. It's a bit frustrating, since we have seen some good quality RPGs in the past offer diplomatic and/or stealthy options.

Well uh I was talking about their material ability to destroy the BOS, not whether they want to or not, which of course they do.

I understand the pesimist vision of the (real) world, but as Michalania said, if you compare the world today with the world say 100 years ago, it has improved greatly. There are many examples.

Here's a link to http://ourworldindata.org.

Also, I like a good discusion about the actual game plot, but I've just tried to point out my sadness with the game's lack of real choices regarding violence. Only solution is not only to murder, but to MURDER EVERYONE. I know that if a scientist is shooting at you (because you shoot first, no less) your character in the game must shoot back, but the point for me is why the developers felt that they should give us such a narrow minded solution for everything.

And on top of that, the proposed solution is always becoming a MASS MURDERER, having elements to think in another possibilities (CHR, INT, etc.) or in any case, the possibility to just assassinate a leader, for example.

Agreed that most folks on this forum are awesome folks, but:

1) No people are not talking to other people (at least not in person). I don't know where you live, but, as I shuttle between Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago, New York and Miami on a regular basis, I can attest that people are glued to their screens, all the time. They are not interacting in person. Oh, and let's not get started on "selfies". Talk about narcissism!

2) No. People are not talking about peaceful solutions on the whole. How many posts are there about shooting Marci in the face, or Preston, or Danse or Maxson or whomever. It's rarely peaceful solutions. We must not be reading the same forums at all.

And it has nothing to do with generations at all. I very clearly stated that it is all of us.

And, seriously, the world is safer? Every week there are shootings, stabbings, families murdering each other, random acts of violence and on and on and on. We do not talk to each other. We shoot, stab, bludgeon or do other horrible things to each other on a regular basis and don't give me the junk that we've always done that. Not in our own homes and neighborhoods and not on a daily basis.

Regardless - none of that is a generational thing. Yes, younger folks tend to spend more time on their devices than many older folks, but that is certainly not the rule.

So you can complete the game for the BOS faction without blowing up the institute?

I absolutely agree. It would be nice to have more peaceful solutions, but, then again, in almost all games it's all about the body count. Sometimes I think my "nice" characters are just as bad as my "not so nice" ones. I mean, honestly, 1200 murders, 1500 assaults and innumerable dead critters and creatures. Sheesh!