Agreed, Wild Card is still available, although that requires you to break ranks with the NCR (and I believe gives you the choice to simply ignore the Brotherhood, rather than side with them in any way).

It simply does not make sense to me that this should be the only path available to me, considering the plasticity of so many other quest lines. I'm able to reconcile the Khans with the NCR, or the Legion, or send them off on their own way, or just ignore them. The Kings can be reasoned with, or you can take out one single individual to align them with your plans. That there are no similar options here is frustrating.

The Brotherhood aren't actually that different. You can't align the Kings and NCR if you kill the King. There's several things you can do to lock out a Khan/NCR alliance. If you replace McNamara, you can't reconcile the Brotherhood.

Maybe it doesn't telegraph that well, but the Brotherhood are the biggest threat in the area other than the main factions. And maybe him retreating from the previous elder's war with the NCR was a clue.

i'm at the same problem but from Mr. House's side. He has sent me to kill the BoS and the NCR only has the "eliminate mr. house as a threat" goal available for their quest. So I dont want to kill off the BoS, does that just mean i have to kill Mr. House first? I've also done everything for Yes Man and now he's waiting outside the casino on the strip and just keeps telling me that he's ready when I am, but for what? Am I supposed to be killing mr. house now or am I missing something? I really dont want to kill mr house before I do everything i can with his quests and stuff

[quote name='Tale' date='15 November 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1289861495' post='16684814'
Maybe it doesn't telegraph that well...
[/quote]

That is what I'm saying. It telegraphs very poorly, especially in comparison with the other factions. For a decision of the magnitude, this should have been much clearer.

Make a hard save and mark which it is, so you don't inadvertently erase it, then branch off from there.

You will have to kill/disable House to continue with the Yes Man quests, and I don't think there's a way to avoid destroying the Brotherhood faction if you side with Mr House. Similarly, you'll have to get rid of House to finish the NCR quests. There's surprisingly little wiggle room in any end path other than Yes Man's.

This game isn't only about choices, it's also about consequences of those choices. Especially unforeseen consequences.

My advice to you is not to worry so much about playing a "perfect game", with a perfect ending. See where things take you and try to have fun. If you're unhappy with the given consequences of certain actions, you'll know better next time around.

Geez, I don't pay attention for a few days and low and behold my post gets popular again after I thought it was dead. Hope you guys are having fun with it :hubbahubba:

Anyway, I am going of the opinion that there may be solutions I'm not aware of yet and took a few days away from this particular game and started a new one. My plan is to load it again on Saturday and make another pass at all the various NPC's and see if there aren't paths that I haven't noticed yet. I am not one who complains about the choices you are given but I will not accept just any choice for an ending (killing the BoS as an example) if it flies in the face of my moral compass. I take various decisions in the game quite personal.

You guys all have fun arguing this as I'm enjoying the various points of view that are coming out. :sleep2:

The BoS in the Mojave nearly went extinct fighting the NCR over Helios One, and you helped put a disgruntled Paladin with a bad case of cabin fever in charge of the chapter. Anyone who paid the slightest attention in the game would have realized that the NCR and the Brotherhood had bad blood. Did you really expect having Moore vs. Hardin end any other way?

and this is what makes the game cool!

What could have been even better is a choice to back the BoS against the NCR instead of just the one choice where you have to blow up the BoS for the NCR. I only like the NCR a little better than the Legion so I could get behind a path where the BoS breakout and go after the NCR.

McNamara was also at Helios; there was no dialogue suggesting Hardin hated NCR more than any other Brotherhood member. I did realise they had bad blood. I did not know there would be a Moore v. Hardin moment when I visited the Brotherhood early in the game. When that moment arose, it was very limited in options. In other cases, such as with the Khans, who had their families decimated at Bitter Springs, you still had the options of forming a pact or convincing them to leave the area.

I go with the Brotherhood of Steel every time. If House or Ceasar wants them dead then I have no option but to opose them. I even find it hard to destroy House or Ceasar because both of them seem to have pure intentions initially their tactics are unacceptable to me. I will only kill if my life is in danger or my superiors demand it. I find my playthru options are limited to hide in the bunker, scavenge food and supplys, do missions back to bunker repeat. Kill the Brotherhood? Not a chance.

Yes you can. I'm not sure how but I worked out a truce between them.

And I feel the same as you. There's no way I'm going to wipe them out, whether I'm friends with then and have Veronica or not. I think the writers made a mistake that every faction will eventually ask you to wipe out the Brotherhood. For me, that completely forces my hand and limits my options of who to support because I won't do it. And the Brotherhood is so popular I imagine that sentiment isn't exactly unique.

In my first game I was supporting Mr. House even though I didn't like some of the things he did, but then he ordered me to do this. There's no way I would. There's no way I would support Caesar so I had to do what the NCR said and kill House. I wasn't really happy about that.

For my second game I would like to do something different and support a different faction to see how it works out compared to supporting the NCR, but I can see I'll just do the same thing again because it's the only way I know I can avoid wiping out the Brotherhood.

There are two ways, not one. If you are at NCR side and keep original elder, or if you are at Yes-Man side, and leave Brotherhood alone.