The conclusion I'm drawing from this thread is that maybe raiders should have been made less shoot-first and could have been fertile ground for some good side quests.

I have always thought this, at least in FO3 and NV. Seems like they were a bit less "shoot on sight" in FO2??

Still, it would almost completely change the game if it was A. Not possible to determine an NPCs friend/foe status more or less on sight (based on their attire); and B. One felt compelled to attempt friendly interactions with everyone, whether they were likely to ambush you or not.

If lets say, "half" of all raider hideouts you meet in the game were not immediately hostile, and their reaction to you depended on other factors (CHA checks, their knowledge of your reputation, whatever) and if even half of those offered "quests" of some sort (e.g., go kill our rivals and we agree to stop pestering Settlment X, or "Bring us 20 each of Tato, Corn and Mutfruit and we will stop raiding and settle down and become farmers, etc.) it could be pretty cool.

New Vegas made up for raiders shooting on sight by giving you the opportunity to join up with some of them. Powder Gangers gave you the opportunity to work for them, and only become openly hostile after you reach a certain threshold. They're more of the "threaten, kill, steal" type, being more criminals and less just trying to survive, but they literally are criminals so Great Khans are closer to actual raiders, using raiding, agriculture and trade as survival techniques in equal measure. Realistically, they are cautious but not murder-happy, and also give you opportunities to join them.

I think the raiders are both good and bad. Rarely there is someone who is either 100% good or 100% bad, vast majority is in between, different shades of gray. Even the Institute, Bos, Minuteman, Railroad.

But what if you were born among the raiders ? Then you become one of them and take their habits of killing and stealing from people to survive. And even if you were born there and did not agree with their methods as a kid/teenager, what were your choices in the dangers the wasteland ? Could you go live by yourself cause you didn't want to kill and rob people ? That was a big risk to take.

If you, on the other hand, were born in the minuteman ranks then you most likely took on their habits: agriculture, raising animals and doing barter to earn a living.

These raiders come off less as tribes engaging in their cultural survival strategy, and more like very visible gangs. While people do get born into gang communities, I really don't see Fo4 raiders keeping nurseries.

Thats more due to keeping the ESRB and government off beth's ass

In the end, it all boils down to competition. Whether you are talking about Raiders, Feral Ghouls, Super Mutants, Scavengers, or normal humans. Every splinter group, is fighting for the same things usually. Regardless of its size, be it 1 lone wanderer, or a million citizens of diamond city, every group that forms up for mutual protection and defence.


All the groups have somethings in common. They all require territory to be safe from outsiders and process resources. They all need certain resources to enable themselves to survive. Whether it is the basics like water and food. Or weapons and ammunition. Each individual group sets values on different things differently.


As well as they choose to employ the methods necessary to gain said territory and resources. Even the lowly animals have evolved to hunt in packs for mutual protection, the gain of territory, and the aquisition of resources they seem necessary for survival.


In the end, it is all about survival of the fittest!

Unless there is an option that allows you to communicate with raiders instead of automatic hostility, then I do not consider killing raiders to be evil since by default they shoot on sight.

I'd be happy if they were just a little smarter.

Maybe, just maybe, the guy wearing high end power armor and carrying the firepower of an infantry squad isn't the person you want to attack with a...........pool cue? Seriously?

Um, aren't you a bit out of your league there buddy?

Oh yeah I remember that now! That really was a great game. I never really "finished" it nor even got as far along with it as I have with FO4, but it was primarily for RL reasons, not the game itself. Will have to go back and play it through one of these days.

Actually, I need to go back and play through the DLC for FO3 that I paid for too! Never even got to those despite many hundreds of hours.

I did of course meet the Powder Gangers, and joined them on one or two play throughs. I even seem to recall, "gaming" it somehow so that I got the best of both worlds by joining them and then betraying them and supporting that starting community . . . cannot recall for sure.

Still, these two factions were sort of the exception in that gang: "special" raider factions if you will. If memory serves there were plenty of "shoot on sight" generic raider camps sprinkled around the landscape too, right?

In New Vegas the shoot-on-sight raiders were called "Fiends", short for "Drug Fiends".

The idea was that they were all so stoked up on chems that they would attack anybody.

Dont underestimate a pool que i could kill a BoS paladin with a pool que if I wanted too lol

Look bro, raiders attack me, I just defend myself.

There is this one female raider who try to save her sister who is kidnapped and blackmailed.

Now I'm feel bad killing her.

Too bad raiders all shoot first ask later type.

If they are not so hostile maybe can become a faction too who shooting down birds instead.

Maybe he was annoyed with your PA headlamp and tried to smash it... with a pool cue.

If i was just chilling and some guy started clunking around noisily shining his headlights everywhere i'd probably snap and attack him with a pool cue too. The corpse hanging from the pole means 'do not disturb'.

Why do people put morals in apocalyptic settings. No matter what character your mass murdering people to survive. That's just how the world works. Lots are innocent or just the same war path crazed as you are.

There were a few groups of raiders that were named and that were always hostile including the scorpians, the jackels and the viper gang.

There was no reasoning with those groups or the fiends that roamed near New Vegas. There was a quest for a Vault that the fiends were in that allowed you to get in there and they would be non-hostile. It was a great Khan quest and you could also say you were a drug runner for the great khans even if you didn't have that quest, though whether that was a feature or a bug, I'm not sure.

To quote another poster in another topic:

"Is this what happens when liberals play Fallout 4?"

I remember sneaking around Corvega and hearing the Raiders talk. Made me really not want to kill them. Some were scared of the ghouls downstairs, and one girl even talked about how she had to keep her other raider friend alive because nobody else would watch her back. It's like... someone really needs to make a mod when the construction set comes out so we can recruit some of these people as settlers and give them security. Yes, they're prety hostile, but then I am the one waltzing into their homes. I also remember in Fallout 3 how they raced Mole Rats for entertainment - I made a big point of avoiding those rather than have to kill them.

Intimidation is also my best friend now - well worth all those points put into it. Beth just need to fix how people revert to hostile the moment I holster my weapon, even if I'm just using a terminal seven rooms away.

I encounter this Raider today grieving the death of his friend.

http://i.imgur.com/ZFo4nbY.png

He shows more emotions than most enemies if he goes that far to give his friend a proper burial and feel the sadness of it.

I decided not to kill him because of that.

Not true.They always shoot at you on sight, they don't wait for you to fire the first shot. If they didn't shoot at me I might not shoot at them..... Might.... Might.

You might as well have said my mother was a hamster! I am a conservative.

It would be cool if you had to kill to survive. You should be forced to choose to survive on the bare minimum by just killing evil raiders or have plenty by attacking harmless squatters and scavengers.

I have my moments where I too ignore certain raiders.


The one who just buried his friend I almost always run on by so he can be left to his thoughts and sadness.


On the rare occasion that jerk attacks me I place his body in the grave with his friend. Together in death I suppose.


I love fighting raiders and have since fo3 but I agree they have a bit more humanity in them this game.


And I like a few others think that raiders and gunners are a massive dropped ball for potential quests and situations that don't involve murder hobo rampages all over the map.


Was really hoping to see more of the disguises and faction stuff from fo3 and fo:nv. Joining the powder gangers was a tiny thing but it was awesome that I could join them and even travel with them wearing their gear. Shame those features were streamlined out of this game. Mods and hopefully dlc/patches will add more features to further flesh the game world out more