Not really evil, someone with a severe mental condition, most likely psychopathy.

They confuse me too. They're clearly doing well for themselves, as they have good equipment and can spend enough in supplies to keep discipline high and chain of command tight. But shooting up everyone they see isn't how you attract customers, and there aren't That many high value customers in the Commonwealth who can afford them: most caravans and communities seem to go for generic mercenaries, and that's most of the clientbase.

This is more thought than Bethesda put into Hostile Group #4, but it seems to me that Gunners are an outside group either based in the Commonwealth or setting up temporary shop, but operating in large part beyond the Commonwealth's borders. Their primary activities within seem to be: sensesly raid the local population and actively recruit from the local population. Sounds more like a passing army that has to forage/pillage from the land they're marching through.

Don't understand why they didn't do more with their triggerman/gunners, raiders already comprise about half of the enemies we meet, we don't need raiders in different clothing

There are some instances, admittedly not many, but some, where raiders display motives beyond "get high" and "kill for money and gear". A few have been referenced in this thread, such as a man trying to feed his family, and another who just wants to get enough cash to escape the gang he's in without getting caught. They are definitely the minority when it comes to representation, though. I'll not deny that I'm sort of defending the 1%. In-game, we mostly just see violent sadists.

Though to be fair, most raiders we encounter are just kinda standing around until we show up on their territory, armed and ready for a fight. Who's to say how bad some of them are?

Well "their" territory often isn't theirs at all, and it's usually either an abandoned area that they've claimed as theirs, or a previously occupied area that they took over. Perhaps it is because I naturally lack sympathy for people (both in game and real life) but they are degenerates at best, who chose a violent way of life and as such meet their end in a violent way; staring down thenp three barrels of my Gatling laser.

It's not like the previous owners of said abandoned areas have been around these last 200 years. If raiders move into an old factory and make it their home, that seems no less fair than settlers creating Diamond City or Sanctuary.


And yeah, I've never argued here that they deserve to be spared if they attack you. It was their choice to live by the sword, after all. Gatling laser away!

@ The Good Doctor: you have a point. But using the word "evil" is often just using a meaningless term to avoid a critical anolysis of you and the world. No need to argue if someone is "evil". Evil are also always the others. Is the ISIS evil? Where the Nazis evil? Most would agree. But quite often it is much more tricky. Where the Jews evil when they killed British and other people as terrorists before 1948? Where the Hutus evil when they murdered about 750.000 Tutsis in a few month in 1994? Or the Serbs in Sebrenica? Or the USA comitting genocide against native Americans? Or the British killing whole village populations in Birma or Afghanistan in the 19th c.? Or the Germans forcing natives into a desert to die in Southwest Afica in 1904? Or the French in Algeria in several events? Was it evil to start a war in 2003 against Irak without a real reason? Or, or or, you can make a long list of bad deads for a lot of people in history. Wether it is bad depends frequently on what side you are. Or, for individuals, is a robber evil? Is a serial killer evil? Or ill? Maybe you can say evil to all of the listed behavior but it did not explain anything.

Seriously? I love how this PC bs filters down into fictional universes to the point where you can't kill Mad Max-esque post-apocalyptic savages who decorate their bases with human bodies, leave heads in refrigerators, and generally attack anyone and anything that moves without feeling guilt. I can just imagine in Fallout 15, raiders attacking caravans will be screaming at the traders to check their privilege (of owning stuff they either made or bought through legitimate means) and cease their microagressions on people less fortunate than themselves (which would be the raiders, by handing over all their belongings.) There are plenty of [censored] people with equally sad sob stories to tell in the wastes, but its best to just harden your heart and keep on shooting. So long as the Raiders continue to exist, law and order will never come to the Commonwealth, and the region will continue to feed upon itself until there is nothing left. It svcks that their life is so hard, but their continued existence is inconvenient for just about everyone else.

If you'll reads some of my other posts in this thread, you'll find that I've said much of the same, as I've been on here defending the freakin' raiders of all people. I do disagree though, that evil is a meaningless term, but I also wouldn't use it as a blanket statement to cover entire groups, and think that every person and action deserves scrutiny to determine whether or not they could be considered "evil" I'm a case-by-case anolysis. At the end of the day, I think it can in fact be used to explain something, and I consider that something to be when a person or the thing they have done has crossed a metaphorical line (that varies depending on circumstances, and admittedly, opinion) that represents the end of reasonable justification for said actions.

Trust me, I despise overly PC BS and love slaughtering fictional bloodthirsty raiders as much as the next guy. But that doesn't mean that I can't see, or even appreciate that Bethesda actually gave some (admittedly few) of the raiders a modicum of complexity that makes them feel more human.

It's either them or me. Since I look prettier it's them that end up deep sixed.

Cait and Maccready may have had terrible back stories (Cait wins the crown jewel of tragic backstories in this game), sure, but it's the WAY they dealt with it that matters. They didn't torture and mutilate anyone. They didn't rob and laugh at the settlers they were hurting. They didn't string their victims up on display or shove body parts on spikes or in fridges.


All Cait did was turn into a bitter woman who took too much Psycho and thrilled for the combat. Yeah, she killed two people. TWO, and guess what? If you pick the right dialogue she says she even regrets murdering them wondering if it was still right for her to do it even if they kind of deserved it.


Maccready did run with the Gunners, but as he makes it clear, he says it was the worst decision of his life and he set out to make things right. He reminds me a lot of John Marston from 'Red Dead Redemption'.


No one can help it if they had a miserable upbringing, or they grew up in a chaotic, lawless situation. But they can help how they act to it. If spreading violence and death in a lawless Commonwealth is what the Raiders want, then they shouldn't be surprised when a certain guy/gal from Vault 111 comes in to send them all off to the Great Beyond. As the games make it painfully clear: you reap what you sow. Take care of someone, they'll take care of you. Hurt someone and they (and everyone else) will come hurt you.


Now, I do commend Bethesda's attempt to humanize Raiders and Super Mutants, still won't stop me from killing them all and taking their stuff.

I have zero compassion towards Raiders. In a world where humans live miserably enough, they decided to make the life even harder by looting and stealing what little there is left anyway.

In contrast, I feel bad when I kill Super Mutants, since they were humanity's byproduct and had little choice in becoming who they are and what they do, being shunned and shot at sight everywhere and anywhere. Tho communities like Jacobstown do give them some hope of civilised living.

I've overheard a Raider telling a story to another Raider about a young guy that had just joined their group... Let's just say I don't regret hobo-murdering any Raiders after that.

never seen dismembered corpses hanging from hooks on the prydwen

Hmmm...

Single Parent: Excuse me, sir

Raider: Huh?

Single Parent: Would you mind giving me all your stuff?

Raider: Or else what?

Single Parent: Or else I shoot you in the head and take it all anyway.

Raider: And why you think I'm gonna let you do that?

Hee Hee!

They also work together to a degree. And even Bunker Hill pays em off, which means they can be civil to an extent

Delete

I don't think they warn you in FO3 but in Skyrim they do. (Bandits)

I thought it would carry over into this game as well.

LOL I also love to sneak up on sleeping or unsuspecting raiders and kill them with a round to the head. However, I don't eat them! YUCK!

I heard one say he wished they didn't fight. That its nothing personal. That its just you or me. The only town that welcomes raiders is goodneighbor. If say an ex-raider made way for diamond city he'd get shot on sight

Every time I walk up to a bunch of raiders, in my head I hear Arnold Swarzenegger's voice from the original Terminator:

" Yoah cloethes. Geev them too mee. "

+1

My heart doesn't bleed for anyone but a couple of journals and whatnot puts a few groups in a new light (after I killed them all of course ha). I can understand them to an extent as if I was in a survival situation where society shunned me, I have no food and no means to farm any, and have a child that depends on me then I wouldn't hesitate to take from others. I would prefer them to give it up peacefully but I wouldn't lose sleep if they didn't.

There's no excuse for the ones that mutilate people though...a head in a sink on the top floor of a building does nothing to deter trespassers (like hanging bodies would), it's just twisted.

The irony in despising raiders and doing the same thing that they do.

The "Single Parent" !!

Being of "human origin" is no excuse for unconscionable behavior, whether we are talking about raiders, ferals, muties, Instituties, or Railroaders, or even Brethren of the Steel.

All must be brought to justice by the Single Parent! All must be brought to order by the Lone Wanderer Legal Eagle! Liberty, justice and due process for all . . . (except raiders, ferals, muties, synths and . . . once I get all my quests out of them: Instituties, Railroaders and Brothers and Sisters of the Steel . . . all of whom shall by tried by jury of one, me and my Minutemen)