Kudos. Well said.

Question: how does letting a dev know what you want influence their decision? Besides them potentially choosing to accommodate you? If you ask for something enough do you take over their minds? Or is that still the artist's decision?

I knew this topic wouldn't end well. I tried to make it FO4 related though

Very nice.

SJWs could very well pool their finances or launch a kickstarter to fund a studio dedicated to creating "inclusive", inoffensive, non-triggering games for fragile tumblrinas, but we all know that it would be a disaster. SJWs afterall, have barely a shred of talent collectively, and they know their original creations would fail miserably. Therefore, they hijack the work of others instead.

There's a difference between letting devs know (which was done at first) and starting to spam posts with the same subject obsessively (which happened after).

It was an extrem example. Here are others: Blind on one eye, missing a leg, dynamic shadows, snow, collectible 8 track tapes, no giant bugs due to my insectophobia and so on...

My point was more... not that asking for x is the same as y, but that asking for x is as arbitrary as asking for y.

Again I get the argument for subjective immersion purposes...

Not to mention the argument that if it's perfectly feasible to roleplay a gay character, then it's equally feasible to roleplay a straight person and there should be no problem. Unless again it's an immersion thing.

Bam! You've hit the nail on the head! Well done!

Yes, a line has to be drawn somewhere. A creator deciding to do his/her story one way is not a slam against all the groups not represented in the story. I'm not offended because Sole Survivor isn't half-blind and half-deaf as I am. Why should I be? This is the story Bethesda wants to tell. If I want to write a story set after an apocalypse with a main character who is half-deaf and half-blind, then what's stopping me from writing it?

Diversity is good, but not when the creator feels like he/she has to force it into their story out of fear of public shaming. Again, not including it in there is not an attack against a group.

Glad they atleast show their support. Wether this has anny impact in the game i doubt it, but neither BGS nor Obsidian has shied away from adding homosixual or lisbian characters. Especialy Obsidian in FNV had alot of NPC openly of lisbian and gay origin, and the fallout perk "confimed bachlor" and "Chez le Fem" i think they are also have been in for awhile now.

Okay, how does spamming devs with the same subject obsessively MAKE them include it? If they don't want to?

Are you seriously asking this question in this thread when it's so damn obvious considering the subject in debate?

It certainly makes the moderators look at the member and posts. Spamming of any kind is not permitted on these forums

Yes, in the interest of figuring out how exactly the following works: respect the artist's creative decision.

Say you ask for something does that make the artist do what you asking for? Or do they still have the decision to deny it if they so choose? If they DO decide to include it should that decision then not be respected? Or would that then be pandering? Or weakening the story for the sake of political correctness? If the artist's decision is to be respected what exactly is the point in objecting to what is being ASKED for here? Since it's already pretty clear that a vocal minority can't make the devs do anything. All you're doing is frustrating yourself since you're supposedly cool with anything the artist decides.

Now you can say this vocal minority manipulates things so that public outcry 'forces' the artist into doing something in which case it's no longer a vocal minority but a sizable enough group that the artist decides to 'compromise' their work in their favor in which case you should respect the artist's decision to do so, no? It is after all in their monetary goodwill in that situation.

I guess I'm just curious as to the limits of this respecting the artist's decision goes. Does it flow all the ways or only when it aligns with what you happen to want?

Especially when Bethesda will be giving us the tools to create any type of game we want.

It would be different if this was Fallout 3 and the majority of people are using consoles and are stuck with what ever the developers released, but now it looks like everyone will have access to mods.

And some do. The manipulation is related to the sensitive nature of the subject resulting in the slander of the said company based on the unfulfilled entitlement of the said minority using modern methods of blackmail. Or to put it simple, calling Bethesda homophobes cause fallout 4 starts with a married couple.

That didn't answer my question but I note your cherry-picking.

As a writer myself in my down time, I have personally had friends comes to me about some of my work and go "I think it would be better if this was this, and this was that". If I agree and see their point, okay, I'm flexible. But if I don't, and those changes would alter the narrative I'm looking to tell drastically, I would politely tell them "Well, that's mighty respectful of you, now let me tell you why that's bulls---."

No, the mod answered your question, I just pointed out what was wrong with your question.

Bethesda didn't write a story just for its artistic value, they intend to sell it. The survival of the company depends on it. I think it's in everyone's interest to give Bethesda feedback about factors influencing our enjoyment of their game and consequently, our decision to buy it or not. What they do with this feedback is their own decision. If they decide it's unimportant, so be it. But as artists and as a business, I'm sure they are interested in what their fans have to say, both good things and bad (as long as the bad aren't hostile and toxic. No one wants to read that.)

Constructive feedback is a fine thing. As an artist who's livelihood depends on it, fan input or fan service has its value. However like I said, a line is there. Where you as the artist put that line is down to you. But when people complain about where the artist decided to go, it's almost disrespectful.

Like I said I write fiction and will happily take input. But I decide where my story goes. If you don't like it, don't buy my book. I didn't write it for you (the individual).

As an artist who claims to earn money by writing you should know the difference between who's and whose.

Just like a Fallout story writer should know the difference between a super mutant and an orc.

I wonder how many people would still shout "how dare you complain about Bethesda's choice to have a semi-set personality, relationships, career, etc...it's for the good of the story!" If instead of being forced to be a loving, straight, married suburban parent and war veteran your character was forced to be gay and married to a partner of the same six, adopted and loves the biological child of their partner, and their job was a flight attendant.

If that's the story they want to write then that's the story they write.

I'm pretty sure the only reason they went with straight instead of gay in the first place is because more people are straight and MC gender selection.

I don't really see the problem with the Fallout 4 character not being LGBT. Being LGBT myself it might be interesting to RP someone in a Beth title that doesnt copy my sixual preferences exactly, since thats how all of my previous characters have been.

As much as I hate the term "SJW", there certainly are some people who seem to rail on videogames for having worlds that do have oppression in them, and I just don't understand that. The Falloutverse is dark, both after and before the war, and this extends to LGBT issues not being 100% great either. After all, America of the Falloutverse isnt really that much better than the China that they fight. And thats not even getting into how the Falloutverse China never had the slight liberalization our real world and you have the whole Eastern Front idea of two absolutely horrible regimes battling eachother to the death in the bloodiest war in history.

Personally, is anyone who is LGBT actually offended by this? My pansixual self certainly isnt. The Sole Survivor is not myself, although he is certainly a man I would like to be friends with in the real world. His character isnt as well defined since he doesnt quite exist yet, with the game not being out, but with the whole voiced thing im thinking he'll have even more independence from myself than my current Fallout character does. I'm willing to give this a chance, and my jimmies are not rustled because my PC has a defined sixuality that is not the same as my own.

I wouldn't care in the least.

Your post is quite frankly an insulting assumption.

Offended? Not at all, it would be silly. I would prefer to decide my character's sixuality for myself and I'm worried what this more strongly defined protagonist might mean for future Bethesda titles (voice is particularly undesirable), but that's all.