in oblivion if you punch someone in the face hard enough it would kill them, perhaps in skyrim when there could be a system where instead of killing your enemy you can punch them or hit them with a plunt ofbject to KO them. granted if i swing a war hammer the size of a small tree at your face i dont expect you to survive, taking a few good hits and then passing out would be pretty sweet.

Well hopefully hand-to-hand won't be a combat skill(in the sense that one-hand and two-handed is, because how effective will punches be to a dragon? Unless it has balls not at all) Hand-to-hand should still be in but not as a lethal combat skill, instead as a way for civilians to fight without murdering. Ie. Bar fights, street fights, etc. As far as blunt weapon KO, I say nah, it should still be death.

Hand to hand is a deadly art of combat. It should be treated as such, not weakened to the point you can only KO people. Period. End of descution. /thread

Hand-to-Hand ought to be a combat skill in the same way that one-handed weapons and two-handed weapons are. Fists should do an appropriate amount of damage. They should be weak against armor. A nice perk would be to have a chance to knock somebody out. Another maybe high-level perk to paralyze. Perhaps another to kill.

That's a good point about punching Dragons. Maybe those perks should only work against humanoids.

And it would be fun to have non-lethal bar fights. But if I'm really good and all perked up... "Oops! I didn't mean to cave in his skull!"

I have to disagree. With dragons scales protected pretty much their entire body besides their under-bellies, the only really effective way to fight dragons would be magic. Going by that logic, a theif or a rouge character will pretty much be screwed from the start, since they only have daggers and arrows with poison.

Why is hand to hand always held to realism? We have bows that magically light arrows on fire, we got swords that can deal ice damage when enchanted properly, we got magic spells for crying out loud. If you ask me, Hand to hand should get a name change so people stop thinking hand to hand combat is only meant for KO smaller oponents that you don't want to kill. I'm all for weapons that resemble boxing gloves that drain stamina along with health, and when the stamina goes negative the enemy passes out. But there should ALSO be other weapons that increases the hand to hand skills deadly capabilities. Something like daderic boxing tape, that makes our fists something that can punch a dragon strait in its scaly back and have the scales crack under the force of the punch. There should be perks that allow you to blast enemies back, like the Scribe counter perk that you can get from Veronica.

I'm seriously annoyed when people flip out at the fact that spellmaking could be gone, but then go and sugest that hand to hand should be weakened so you can only KO people. Seriously gets on my bad side. Not pointing fingers at anyone here, I'm just speeking in general.

I think it would be nice if the standard fist combat deduct enemy's stamina/fatigue, but once the enemy's stamina/fatigue reaches a critical stage, you can execute an instant-kill move, other it's merely knocking him out cold.

Daggers and arrows can pierce a dragon's scales though(scales are not metal ) A punch by a mortal cannot. Only way I can see a punch doing damage to a dragon is if a Spell or Dragon Shout was used that makes the users punch do more damage. Otherwise I'm all for realistic damage(just my opinion, everyone's is different.) If they added claws and bladed fist weapons I will agree that hand-to-hand would be a viable combat technique. Boxing tape will do little to aid you against a dragon, mountain troll or armored man.


Generally speaking you're correct. Personally speaking, I'm fine with them getting rid of both, spellmaking and hand-to-hand Because I'm sure there are more spells to choose from.