[RELZ] Kogoruhn Ruins

Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:44 am

thanks a lot for the info! I'll look into it. Given that I'm allowed to use the resources, what would be the optimal way of adding them?
The easiest way would be to make the mod depend on the TR data.esm. What about it? Is it safe to presume that people use TR now days?

It is not recommended to make the mod dependent on TR Data when you don't have to.

Option 1: Rename the ID of the object before you place it in the Render Window, this will then create a New identical object that is dependent only on your esp.

If you do happen to drag a TR object into your Render Window, it will become referenced in your esp and therefore dependent on TR. Even if you change the ID after placing it.
You can remove any accidental junk references like this with TESAME or EE (or even the CS's Details window, but the other two are more definitive)


Option 2: Make a New object from scratch, and use the TR files on your computer. (this takes longer to do than Opt 1)


Once you no longer have any TR objects, and no TR references from objects that used to be in your mod, it will no longer be dependent on TR.

This, if course, applies to the use of any resource.
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CHARLODDE
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:06 am

Moving the tower would probably be a not so good idea. There are a few scripted objects that are on the exterior.

As for why the Telvanni tower is at Kogoruhn, the master of the tower studies the Sixth House tediously. I think it would be somewhat cool to see some of the architecture a bit crushed by the growth of the tower.


If you fire up the both mods in the editor, you'll see that your wish is fulfilled =)
I'll might take it into account when releasing the next version.



No. TR is a great achievement, but it also conflicts with lots of other great mods. That's the reason why it won't become part of my current mod setup.


by adding the TR Data.esm you won't add anything of the map 1 and 2 which is the parts that may conflict with other mods. The data is just unplaced content.

But I guess that pluto's first option is the one to go.

Now anyone have any ideas what to do with the clipping inside the multiple storied buildings?
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m Gardner
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:12 am

No. TR is a great achievement, but it also conflicts with lots of other great mods. That's the reason why it won't become part of my current mod setup.



I don't have TR installed either so if this mod was dependent on the TR data.esm I'm afraid I wouldn't use it.
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Heather M
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:54 am

The urns is a great idea! The redware would work, but they are in good shape for my taste. They will also break the bleak palette of colors that I'm working with. There is also another issue with the insides of the multiple storied buildings.. At the current state I've piled the ruin meshes on top of each other, resulting in clipping on the inside. Covering the inside will be a tedious work. If some one got the skills and the program to combine and solve the issues it will be greatly appreciated.

But what about the additions of TR? I know that there are many contributions to the TR Data. Would I need to find the specific modder who made the stoneware or would a request in the TR forums be enough? Ohh and what about the broken urns from TR? They would fit perfectly.

Bycote, the clipping issues were fixed in a minute so it won't be necessary to move the tower. I guess the location of the tower is motivated in RoTH? Haven't played the that long into the mod yet.

Would you be http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/ScreenShot36-2.jpg? It's a fully functional "tileset" I made for stacking the ruin meshes. As far as the TR stuff goes, they certainly have some interesting stuff in there!
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Heather Dawson
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:40 am

I looked at it in the CS of what it would look like if both RoHT and your mod were running at the same time, and it actually looked pretty good. All that really needed to be removed was a simple rock that clipped through Telvanni architecture. Also a bit of a landscape issue, but should be pretty easy to fix. Thanks for the mod, probably a keeper for me.

As for Melchior Dahrk's work, that looks really, really awesome. Good use of reskinned Tribunal (I think?) meshes.
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:38 am

Bycote, the clipping issues were fixed in a minute so it won't be necessary to move the tower.

My worry is that when your mod is complete, the tower will no longer make much sense in its current location. I'm really not sure my concern is completely valid, so right now I'm just thinking out loud. :^) After all, the tower is supposed to be very near Kogoruhn, dangerous as it is, so that the masters of the tower can study the Sixth House and defend Vvardenfell against any uprising from Kogoruhn. I believe for that purpose, the author of ROHT built the tower on the *outskirts* of Kogoruhn, in relative safety. If I understand you correctly, your intent is to cover the landscape around Kogoruhn with more ruins and monsters which might result in the tower being located right in the thick of it. Why would they chose to build in the midst of inhabited ruins when they could, for example, simply build on the other side of the structure?

Perhaps it's better that I fix this issue myself. I don't know that most people are going to see a real conflict between your mod and ROHT, and I can easily move the tower in my own esp file and that will be that. :^)

As for the doubts someone else had about moving the tower, I don't see that it would have any problems at all. The scripts attached to the tower's exterior parts perform a simple check, whether a global variable is equal to one or zero. When equal to zero, the structure isn't built. When dialogue sets the global variable to one, the tower is built. I don't know everything about modding this game, but I can't imagine how moving it is going to hurt anything in those scripts. The only thing I wonder about is the portal's functionality, I'll have to look into that...
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:57 am

Would you be http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/ScreenShot36-2.jpg? It's a fully functional "tileset" I made for stacking the ruin meshes. As far as the TR stuff goes, they certainly have some interesting stuff in there!



That would be awesome! Any interiors made for the tileset? Or is the inside of the buildings fixed so that there are no clipping issues between the stories when you enter the mesh in the exterior? (I hope that made any sense) I very interested in trying these meshes and see what I can do with them =).


As for the dependency on TR Data. I will probably make two versions, one with only vanilla clutter, and one with the extra clutter from TR. If I get the permission and get to it, I might add the things manually to avoid the dependency.

Ohh and Bycote, you are welcome to make a mod which moves the tower. I could package it with Kogoruhn Ruins. There might be others who would like the tower moved. I'd recommend you to wait for the next version though since I will expand the ruins a little further. I found the the effect of tower's placement on top of the ruins to my liking. =)
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Rodney C
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:44 pm

I understand many people will probably like the effect of the tower smashing through the ruins. I have to admit, it's pretty freakin sweet. :^) From a scholarly perspective, though, I can't imagine why a mage risking his life to study the place would destroy a portion of the site just to build his home. I'll definitely have to move that tower once I see all of the great things you come up with in the next version. :^)
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:28 pm

That would be awesome! Any interiors made for the tileset? Or is the inside of the buildings fixed so that there are no clipping issues between the stories when you enter the mesh in the exterior? (I hope that made any sense) I very interested in trying these meshes and see what I can do with them =).

When I get home tonight I'll PM you a copy of the files. I may have some additional cleaning up to do with them. I haven't touched'em in a while :)
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Rik Douglas
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:19 pm

I read the thread title as 'Kogoruhn Rules!'. :P

What? It does!
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Kanaoka
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:25 pm

I concur, Dagoth Uthol should conquer Vvardenfell from his underground lair!! :chaos: oh wait, that's what Ur was trying to do....
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courtnay
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:54 pm

by adding the TR Data.esm you won't add anything of the map 1 and 2 which is the parts that may conflict with other mods. The data is just unplaced content.

This is very true. You can also download TR Data seperately from any of the maps, so if you wanted to make your mod dependant on it you can just link them there.
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Celestine Stardust
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:17 pm

This is very true. You can also download TR Data seperately from any of the maps, so if you wanted to make your mod dependant on it you can just link them there.


True, but I've considered making it dependant and it is not the way to go. People should not need to download the TR files (which are quite big) to be able to play this. Though I must say that I can't really understand why people don't have the TR Data no matter if they play with Map 1 or 2 since it is probably the best resource for modding there is.
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Amanda savory
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:42 am

Well, I wouldn't say the mage necessarily studies the Kogoruhn by itself, but rather what is inside of Kogoruhn. I doubt he cares much about the architecture of Dunmer fortresses.
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Stace
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:58 pm

True, but I've considered making it dependant and it is not the way to go. People should not need to download the TR files (which are quite big) to be able to play this. Though I must say that I can't really understand why people don't have the TR Data no matter if they play with Map 1 or 2 since it is probably the best resource for modding there is.

I'm suprised it isn't used as a modder's resource more often. I think few people actually realise how much stuff is in there. It's a testiment to the skill of the modders that the TR pieces fit in perfectly with the vanilla ones around them.
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Britta Gronkowski
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:51 am

I'm suprised it isn't used as a modder's resource more often. I think few people actually realise how much stuff is in there. It's a testiment to the skill of the modders that the TR pieces fit in perfectly with the vanilla ones around them.

I have always been too lazy to sort through it. Been doing just that though for the last few days.... gonna be using a lot of it!
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Hella Beast
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:13 am

Would you be http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/ScreenShot36-2.jpg? It's a fully functional "tileset" I made for stacking the ruin meshes.

Could I get a copy of it as well?
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:13 pm

My worry is that when your mod is complete, the tower will no longer make much sense in its current location. I'm really not sure my concern is completely valid, so right now I'm just thinking out loud. :^) After all, the tower is supposed to be very near Kogoruhn, dangerous as it is, so that the masters of the tower can study the Sixth House and defend Vvardenfell against any uprising from Kogoruhn. I believe for that purpose, the author of ROHT built the tower on the *outskirts* of Kogoruhn, in relative safety. If I understand you correctly, your intent is to cover the landscape around Kogoruhn with more ruins and monsters which might result in the tower being located right in the thick of it. Why would they chose to build in the midst of inhabited ruins when they could, for example, simply build on the other side of the structure?

Well, the reason for Tel Koj-Ruskthss location are given in RoHT's dialogue. ;) Here are a couple of excerpts (hidden between spoiler tags for those who'd like to find out in game):
Spoiler

Skink-in-Tree's-Shade about Alighiere:
He's a true and trusted friend. Even though I'm still uneasy about him being one of those beings commonly being referred to as vampires. I met him quite early in my travels: I was passing the Nerano Ancestral tomb late at night, hoping to find a nice and moist place to spend the night. Imagine my horror when its door swung open and an upset Altmer with fangs and glowing eyes rushed out. Thank the Hist that I was openly carrying my notes on the Sixth House with me.
We share that interest though our means of research differ quite a lot. You see, while I'm collecting artifacts and studying mainly dead objects, he literally svcks the information out of the living subject. If a vampire drinks blood, he doesn't only still his hunger, he also takes in portions of his food's personality and knowledge. And what most people don't realise is that he also gives something back: a bit of the vampire's essence flows back into his blood donor.
This way, the vampire transfers a bit of himself into his food. Especially with old vampires, that can be quite an interesting bit that may actually change the recipient, both mentally and physically. Go to the tower dungeon, and you'll see what I mean.
But I'm digressing... After a momentary lapse of composure we struck up a conversation. I told him of my search for a home and laboratory, and he told me of his search for... No, I'll let him tell you about it. I'm not sure he'd appreciate me giving away his secrets. Well, I didn't have a place to go, and he offered me to stay at his place for the night. Little did I know that "his place" actually was the Drinith Ancestral Tomb and that his bedroom was also his pantry.
Have you ever slept between mummies while a vampire is waking next to you? It's quite a daunting experience. And a confidence-building experience too, because I awoke completely unharmed. Unlike the Daedroth that lay dead at my feet. It had slipped in during my sleep, and he had disposed of it. You see, usually Alighiere doesn't even bother to kill Daedra or undead. He doesn't need to, either. His name has become quite familiar in the northern Ashlands, though nobody will admit to having heard of him.
The Ashlanders have come to terms with him: they accept him as their neighbor and distract any vampire hunter that comes near, and in return he protects them by feeding exclusively on animals, Daedra and Sixth House members. That's how we managed to get our Ashlander guards, by the way. Alighiere called in a favor, and they obliged in accord with their tribe's honor. When dusk had sunk again, we went outside and headed North. The Ashlanders had told Alighiere of a Dunmer woman heading towards Kora-Dur.
We were curious what this was about, so we went to see for ourselves. In Kora-Dur, we finally met Elmera Indalas. She joined us, and soon afterwards I got the Duke's permission to raise a stronghold and grew Tel Koj-Ruskthss. Alighiere proved to be of invaluable help again and recruited some Ashlander guards to help protect it.


The Drinith Ancestral tomb is located a short way northeast of Kogoruhn: visit it next time you're in the area and have a look at how Alighiere used to live before meeting Skink-in-Tree's-Shade. That vicinity combined with Alighiere's contacts in the nortern Ashlands and also combined with their mutual interest in the Sixth House are reasons why Tel Koj-Ruskthss is planted at its current location. Also note that this is no ordinary tower, as Alighiere will testify:
I have walked this land for a long time, but this tower is a mystery to me. We went out one night and out of my eye I saw Skink-in-Tree's-Shade quickly plant a rather large black seed into the soil. When we returned the following night, the seed had grown to the tower you see right now. I'm not entirely sure what this is or if I shouldn't rather say who this is. It... he... whatever - this tree is adapting to our every need.
When I moved down here, there was only one alcove. I conferred with Skink and said that I would require a bit more space. When I returned to my chamber I found it like this: four alcoves with one of them leading into a cave. What kind of plant grows so fast?


Elmera Indalas will confirm this statement:
It's a good fortress. I have no idea how Skink-in-Tree's-Shade managed to grow it so quickly. We parted ways one night: I wanted to explore the coastline while he and Alighiere went out to look for a suitable construction site. The next night we had already moved in. I asked him about it, naturally, but he won't give me any details. I'm not sure what this is anyway. In quiet moments I think that I can hear the walls breathing. I know that it's impossible but I swear I have seen a wall shift before my eyes.

To get an idea of what this "tower" actually is, compare these observations to the Morrowind book "The Seed".

Briefly spoken, Skink-in-Tree's-Shade doesn't need to worry that his tower would crush anything that's important to him.

As for the doubts someone else had about moving the tower, I don't see that it would have any problems at all. The scripts attached to the tower's exterior parts perform a simple check, whether a global variable is equal to one or zero. When equal to zero, the structure isn't built. When dialogue sets the global variable to one, the tower is built. I don't know everything about modding this game, but I can't imagine how moving it is going to hurt anything in those scripts. The only thing I wonder about is the portal's functionality, I'll have to look into that...

Confirmed. You won't encounter technical problems with RoHT if you move Tel Koj-Rusktss. However, there might be conflicts with Uvirith's Legacy's RoHT Compatibility Addon. The conflicts (if there are any) would pertain to the teleportation portal you already noticed. It's part of RoHT's teleportation system. Technically, that portal is a door and can easily be moved, but I don't remember if UL adds something to them.

Though I must say that I can't really understand why people don't have the TR Data no matter if they play with Map 1 or 2 since it is probably the best resource for modding there is.

Maybe it is. But I still prefer getting everything I need for a mod in one download. That salami tactics (slice by slice) of having to download other mods to run a mod is tedious at best. Usually I don't go to the trouble of downloading such required mods but instead ditch the mod I was going to try. :shrug:
However, my main gripe with adding TR Data to my mod list is that it'd be taking up one of the precious few 255 mod/bsa slots. At least my installation is very close to that limit. So if I'm given the choice to use a mod slot for some resources or have those resources defined in their appurtenant mod, my vote goes to defining the resources in the appurtenant mod.
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emma sweeney
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:38 am

Thank you bhl, I had actually read that dialogue (and quite a bit more) in the CS prior to posting and I came to a different conclusion than you and others.

"[...] We share that interest though our means of research differ quite a lot. You see, while I'm collecting artifacts and studying mainly dead objects, he literally svcks the information out of the living subject. [...]"

Briefly spoken, Skink-in-Tree's-Shade doesn't need to worry that his tower would crush anything that's important to him.

I agree that in vanilla Morrowind there is nothing in that area of Kogoruhn that appears to be of any importance, but in my opinion the ruins added by this mod are potentially of great archeological significance to a scholar researching the Sixth House. Who knows what artifacts would turn up in a thorough dig of the site... it's just my opinion, I can easily see how others' views would differ. Just like the matter of downloading required mods to use another - you say it's tedious at best, while I say it's a minor inconvenience at worst! ;^) And for the record, I have over 600 esp/esm files in my current installation. ;^)

Confirmed. You won't encounter technical problems with RoHT if you move Tel Koj-Rusktss. However, there might be conflicts with Uvirith's Legacy's RoHT Compatibility Addon. The conflicts (if there are any) would pertain to the teleportation portal you already noticed. It's part of RoHT's teleportation system. Technically, that portal is a door and can easily be moved, but I don't remember if UL adds something to them.

Thank you! I hadn't thought to check the UL compatibility patch. Unfortunately, the CS crashes every time I try to open the patch; do you, by chance, know what's up with that? I've briefly checked the patch in the enchanted editor but I'd like to take a closer look in the CS if possible. If you don't know how to open it I'll just shoot Stuporstar a PM.
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le GraiN
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:57 am

Maybe it is. But I still prefer getting everything I need for a mod in one download. That salami tactics (slice by slice) of having to download other mods to run a mod is tedious at best. Usually I don't go to the trouble of downloading such required mods but instead ditch the mod I was going to try.


Yeah I know that feeling. I'll get round the bsa-poking to avoid it as soon as I've heard from Melchior about his tileset. If I don't get some working meshes for the inside of the multi storied buildings I will have to bar these to keep the player from seeing the clipping.
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jessica sonny
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:59 am

Do you think you might attach a script to the large blight cloud in the center of the ruins to only activate during ash storms (or blight storms, I can't remember if they ever happen outside of the Ghostfence)? The effect is quite cool during ash storms, but it can be pretty strange to see a swirling red cloud on a sunny, windless day.

I've always loved anything related to House Dagoth, so this is a welcome mod in my game :) Do you think you'll flesh out any of the other Sixth House ruins once this is complete?
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luis dejesus
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:33 am

Do you think you might attach a script to the large blight cloud in the center of the ruins to only activate during ash storms (or blight storms, I can't remember if they ever happen outside of the Ghostfence)? The effect is quite cool during ash storms, but it can be pretty strange to see a swirling red cloud on a sunny, windless day.

I've always loved anything related to House Dagoth, so this is a welcome mod in my game :) Do you think you'll flesh out any of the other Sixth House ruins once this is complete?


I'm planning to making it appear during ashstorms only. It is placed for the aesthetics only, even if it is supposed to be a manifestation of the blight coming out of Red mountain I thought it was a shame that it wasn't used to something more since it is a great effect. Think of it as a result of the buildings in the circle and a spiral movement of the wind. =)
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Genocidal Cry
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:07 am

I think dedendencies to other mods is something to be avoided unless there is a really good reason, especially if the depedency is against a huge mod like TR, and it is only to use clutter from that mod. So I would clearly suggest adding the stuff to the Kagoruhn files and cretiting TR instead. I don't think people, who don't have TR will install Kagoruhn if it requires a TR_data-file on +100MB just to get clutter.

And while TR might be a great mod it is also incompatible with a lot of landmass/quest-mods, which might be a good reason to have it install (at least not having it installed always).
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:31 pm

And while TR might be a great mod it is also incompatible with a lot of landmass/quest-mods, which might be a good reason to have it install (at least not having it installed always).

As has already been discussed, you don't need to be running TR to run TR_Data, and it's only about 60MB. Well worth it if you ask me. However, as to having dependancies, it depends on how much TR stuf you're going to use. If it's just a bit of clutter there's no point, but if you're going to use a whole tileset or something it would make sense to make it dependant.
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lydia nekongo
 
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Post » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:34 pm

I'm working on various improvements for the new version.

- clutter and traces of sixth house cult activity in some of the buildings

- The items from TR will not need TR Data.

- The blight cloud in the center of the ruins will only appear during ashstorms.

- Various tweaks to the landscape.

- tweaks which improves the compatibility with RoTH

If anyone have some more feedback from playing the plugin, I'd really like to hear what you think.
Anything else that you people have discovered?
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Enie van Bied
 
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