Since Kuertee told me in a PM he really doesn't play/mod Oblivion anymore on a previous Kuertee mod question, I don't expect to hear a response to my question on Nexus so posting here too.

In the readme:



My post:



I tried renaming but upon trying to start the game I received a pop up box saying I can't rename it, so I tried copying elsewhere, renaming it, then putting it back into the folder. Another pop up said it detected HUD and non HUD and only can use one.

I would like to try the body HUD shown in the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/images/24604-1-1259504156.jpg.

Kuertee's HUD mod is about to become obsolete. Take a look at what The Nice One is working on. It's still a work in progress but it already has some features that Keurtee's mod didn't have and will soon surpass that one in every way. It also doesn't use Pluggy, which can cause issues for your game if you use the HUD elements that Kuertee's mod requires. Those can cause crashes if you try to enter certain interiors for instance, and I believe there's some other instabilities as well. Pluggy works fine overall, but the HUD functions are not really stable and shouldn't be used IMO. TNO uses MenuQue instead, and avoids that whole instability problem. The only thing he doesn't have yet is the ability to add text to a bar, but he's working on it. Other than that, his mod is superior to Kuertee's in every way so far.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118552-relz-hud-status-bars/

It doesn't require it. I was using Real Injury but saw some posts about it possibly having issues alongside other realism mods.

Once after doing a clean save, dropping everything and being naked to clear all my attribs/skills/fatigue/health/etc to use stat restore ring, I loaded up again and got a stat injury for no reason which made me decide to try Kuertee's mod.

If you mean OBSE_Elys_Pluggy_HUD.dll, then yes it does. The bars won't show if you don't make that change to file name. But doing so creates the risk of your game crashing when you transition from certain interiors/exteriors. It's been a known issue with Pluggy's HUD elements since it was introduced, and no one seems to be able to fix it. MenuQue somehow manages to avoid those problems and is much more stable for graphic elements. While the mod you're trying to configure may not require his full HUD mod, it still incorporates some elements of it, including the need for the OBSE_Elys_Pluggy_HUD.dll rename. That's where the problem is, not with the mod itself. Pluggy is unstable when used for any sort of onscreen display.

Pluggy crash posts - I was once part of that chorus.

One of the best things that I've done to increase stability is to stop using any pluggy based mod. If it requires pluggy I won't touch it.

Last time I used battle fatigue and injuries it too had bugs - simpler mod is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29095.

I meant the hud. I haven't been able to play yet, only installed and loaded to see if it would load.
I guess I will have to try the other one...or not...as I see that is more of a regen thing which sounds like it would conflict with Realistic Fatigue.
I was looking for the body injury thing.

I've never had any problems with just it's text functions, it's only when someone tries to use it for any HUD/graphic elements that it causes problems. MenuQue was built strictly with adding graphic elements in mind so it seems to work much better for that sort of thing. At least I haven't run into any problems with it so far.

Exactly. It won't work unless you rename the Pluggy.dll file in order to unlock it's HUD functions, and doing so is pretty much guaranteed to cause you CTD's. If you can isolate the variables that Kuertee uses to make his bars work, then you can use them in The Nice One's HUD mod and avoid the problems you'll encounter trying to use Pluggy for the onscreen display. Plus you'll be able add as many extra bars as you want with it, not just those that Kuertee has.

Well the problem is that it will not let me rename it anyway.

No the health regen of SM mod shouldn't conflict with RF.

Unless I'm missing something.

It says it affects fatigue regen among other regen things, which I wasn't looking for. I was wanting the Body Injury / Kuertee BFI style injuries.

I'm not sure why, I never had a problem with it. But consider yourself better off not being able to, I don't recommend it. Pluggy is fine with just the text functions active but a problem if it tries to do anything involving graphics. By not renaming it, you're keeping it as just a text tool, which is what it does best.

The great thing about both Kuertee and Strategy Master is they both give many options in their ini files for their mods. Here is the SM Combat Regen ini:
As you can see you can have it only cover health.

Like I said I wasn't looking for a regen mod, but an injury mod.

I think this topic is dead anyway since I can't use graphical pluggy even if I wanted to.

Have you ever tried Real Injury? If not using other realism mods, or stat adjusting mods, or being a vampire) it would work.

Anyway read the end of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1028563-relz-mods-by-kuertee-thread-4/ thread for info on Battle Fatigues.

Mostly though in Oblivion injuries are not well implemented even with mods - at most they deal with stat reductions (both base and derived) and not immersive effects.

Fallout 3 though is another story - your character will limp and have limb damage. Then with mods hurt limbs mean reduction in aiming and fighting. Not much like that in Oblivion where it is more stat based. Really what is happening even with Battle Fatigues or Real Injury - you get stat penalties and all it really becomes is another annoyance like getting a disease.

With all due respect to Kuertee - I found Real Injury a much more fun to play mod. SM Combat Regen comes closer to that without lasting stat penalties.

Too many stat adjusting mods not made by the same author is like begging for problems.

Like I said I removed RI due to it giving me an injury upon loading the game while completely naked, going through a clean save/clean stat restore with restore ring.
There was no reason for it to give me an injury so I read some comments that said it may conflict with other immersion / stat mods.
Initial reading of SM mod just says it gives combat regen debuffs:



This sounds pretty much the same thing that Realistic Fatigue does to you causing you to use fatigue potions in the same way.

Yeah but the whole reason I posted the ini to read was to illustrate that the fatige and magicka portions can be completely turned off and the mod will only focus on health regen. Which as I understand it RF does not at all address.

Health regen was what Real Injury was all about - it was designed to make the health bar more of a measure of how much fight you had in you not a measure of your physical integrity. The settings that were recommended were fast regen, but that could be toned down and adjusted to fit mods loaded.

Kuertee liked Real Injury and with Battle Fatigues he tried to implement it a bit differently and instead have the battle fatigue be a stat you don't see (hence the need for HUD add on). It is still a derived stat and the lower it went more impact it had on your character.

With just about all realism mods and oblivion what is happening is stat penalties - and the differences being how that is done. Some use methods that will conflict heavy and some do not, but not many give immersion features. RF does with panting, falling down, etc. Real Health gives visual queues, Real Hunger stomach grumbles, Sleep mods a yawn every now and again.

But under all that is stat penalties and not much else. Nothing like with Fallout where you have to treat specific limbs (or treat them in exact procedures with mods) and that these individual injuries cause individual issues. With mods in fallout 3 a head injury cause blurred vision or an arm injury and you can't hold things or aim well a leg injury and you see your character limp.

With Oblivion as the character grows then magic, potions, and scrolls make realism a joke. Just visit a temple or use a cure disease potion. The better realism mods would then try to circumvent that. 'Oh so you think your restore stat spells, potions, and scrolls ... and your catalog of restoration spells ... and constant access to an altar make realism too easy ... well now you actually have to eat or sleep.' So they add annoyance remover requirements that are supposed to increase immersion.

Real Injury came close to that and changed what the health bar even meant. It did mean that potions were less meaningful but that they could still be very helpful. Vim and Vigor changed the fatigue bar in a similar way. One of the things I liked about Battle Fatigues and now also SM combat regen is that you can set it to not regen in combat.

Ultimately though I tired of realism mods that just fiddled with my stats because in the end it was just like a disease - get a penalty then do operation X to fix it. What I found though after trying just about all of them is that the penalties affect the character more than the player and the requirements to remove the penalties was more an annoyance for the player. So you the player are jumping through hoops to remove stat penalties that really unless they are super bad you could just put off till later and make use of any of the many numerous ways to heal your character.

Without location based damage like F3 and removal of the constant source of magic that heals all things and is falling off the shelf in Oblivion realism and immersion mods can only go so far.

I think next generation for them will be to annoy the player not the character ... Duke has done some stuff like that.

Fallout though is where it is at for realism - my armor stops most of the bullets but the character still gets a head concussion - vision starts to blur but the battle is not over and while he was sniping good his right arm is injured so he can't aim well anymore. He could triage himself with his med kit but not in combat. Need to switch to guns with wider bullet spray and charge in there - wait vision blurring again. Much more fun.

[edit] oh yeah Hi Kuertee!!

Heya everyone!
just skimmed through this thread but i get the gist of it.

my BFandI mod was born out of finding RI buggy.
i found that RI would actually lose track of a stat's actual value from RI's own application of its effects.
if you find RI's thread in planetoblivion (i think), you may see some of my comments.
or if RI's release post still exists in this forum, you'll see some of the buggy code that i detailed in it.
i tried to contact ryujiin to see if he was still active at that time.





anyway, back to your original question ITPaladin:

i think another mod that uses pluggy is FORCING players not to enable pluggy HUD functions.
to determine if this is the case, rename the dll, activate BFandI, deactive other mods that need pluggy one at a time and run the game.

OR: a new obse may be FORCING players not to enable pluggy HUD functions - i doubt this.

i hope that helps, ITPaladin!

The only reason I have pluggy is for some mod I currently don't remember that required it. That plugin folder is so place-and-forget.

I left a PM for Ry a day or two ago, seeing that he was active on Sept 20th here.

He was just active - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115641-relz-minionz-one-touch-command-system/

Kuertee - have you heard of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118552-relz-hud-status-bars/ makes the need for pluggy graphics unnecessary. As above just need to know what is needed to make a status bar for BFandI.

Unfortunately I found that BFandI continued to give me stat damage that would not go away.

hmm that doesn't sound good.

doh! did the stat damage from BFandI show up in your active effect list, psymon?
if you think you've rested enough for the injuries to heal and the BFandI stat damage is still listed in the active effect list,
then it's definitely a bug in my mod.

however, if the BFandI stat damage doesn't show up in the active effect list,
but there are still stat damages (the - against each stat in your attributes and skills list),
then those stat damages can't be from BFandI and may be from some other mod that uses modAV or modAV2.

(last time i was active, abo found the best way to calculate actual stat values which showed that a whole lot of mods were doing it incorrectly.
also at that time, tejon had updated his mods according to abo's findings. hopefully others have as well now.)

just to iterate: all the effects of my mod will show up in the active effects list - one of the advantages of using the drain spell effect over modAVs or modAV2 .
and if they don't but you still have stat damages in your attributes and skills list, those would be from another mod.





re: HUD stat bars - YES! no more pluggy clunkyness!

If you ever come back take a look at your bp mod for dealing with how to stop it from sometimes flinging it upon dropping it. It is one of the causes of losing it into walls.
I sometimes lose it in confined spaces like upstairs of Grey Mare because it gets thrown through walls. Possibly some way for it to not be lost on level ground too. I once used no clip to go underground to see it while in front of the mage guild in Chorrol on the street. It wasn't flung, simply just dropped to the ground as it should. It never raised up to get it.

For this thread's topic, I suppose I can only go back to Real Injury and hope that was a one-time quirk.

To be honest it has been about 4 months or more since I had BFand I installed - I also had Eat and Sleep installed and what I do recall was after returning to the homestead from pillaging dungeons I'd have the chracter eat, sleep, go to alter - and then strip off all armor and enchantments and find the stats were out of whack again and again.

I forget if in active effects.

soon after I was done with realism mods (for now anyway).

I suspected mod interactions with Realistic Fatigue or something else. Maybe it was just eat and sleep - I don't know.

ITPaladin-

I'd only use Real Injury if not using any other mod that adjusts stats. That means most realism mods. And don't be a vampire or use disease mods either.

I have noticed that my +10 Luck amulet removal and placement doesn't get adjusted properly sometimes and will show -10 when I take it off so I have to use my stat restore ring.

Oh well. Using DP Hypothermia + Fatigue + RI/whatever I guess is not healthy. I like making things useful in the game that normally aren't (fires, shelter, inns, etc).