your point for gta is perfectly valid, but not sure where your going with the imperial city as you could interact with everyone and enter ever building. The filler npcs in oblivion actually had more to say in comparison to the filler npcs in skyrim as well. The houses were cookie cutter though (so were alot of morrowinds). I'd also point out that the imperial city had it's sewers under it which served as a large ruin/ dungeon so the city's space wasn't too badly used. Anyway what I'm trying to get at is that a larger city doesn't necessary mean that it's going to be more boring, it all comes down to how much effort they put into it.

All I'm seeing lately is people trying to paint Fallout 4 to be garbage (before it comes out), and I'm just sitting here going "who died and made these guys James Rolfe?"

Buncha whiney b*tches.

Speaking of settlements, I wonder what happened to Harvard? It's just a mile away from MIT and is a much bigger campus (~5000 acres).

Would it be an overgrown ruin? An independent settlement? Commandeered by the folks from the Institute?

I've never been to Harvard but I'm sure that it'd have a bunch of very useful facilities.

This^. I see it maybe being like that underground town in "A Boy and His Dog". Everybody is really happy but everybody is really nuts too.

As us again in November.

I don't know, I think it's kind of hypocritical to consistently complain about the complainers.

What are the forums for anyway? I'm just here to have a fresh discussion about something that I feel needs improving in the series, whether other people agree with me or not. It's not like I'm flaming the game or that I've put forward a baseless argument. If you don't have anything productive to add then what's the harm in not saying anything at all?

Anyway, I still wonder if I'm alone in feeling frustrated when a potential settlement is sacrificed for the purposes of telling a story (e.g. Primm, Nipton, Nelson, Boulder City, Andale, Grayditch, etc.). I don't mind if it happens on occasion, of course. I guess there's a tension between providing a believable amount of "normal" settlements and providing a world that is big enough to provide substantial distances between.

me aparently, another hazard of the Internet....

Well, in truth, all are entitled to their opinion. They are also entitled to everyone's opinion about their opinion. Whom are welcome to the opinions of all others and all cats regarding their opinions.

My position is still this. Your worries are without merit. Therefore alleviate them beyond the real of Furst Workd Famer problems, with a clear conscience.

Speaking of "saying anything productive", I am certain our discourse will always be highly valued...next time, as the game is finished. Unless they forget that one thread from that one time that said a thing but is too deep into the message boards now to even remotely bother with.

I wasn't just referring to you, btw.

But anyway: " It's Alright to not like things, but don't be a d--- about it"

We already see hints of other settlements in the trailer I think. And remember you can also build your own settlement.

Do you even know the skyrim system? That's totally different from the system they show in FO4... Yes there is a perk chart... that's the only similiarity. WOW! TRhey are totally the same!

At this rate Beth should do a 200 hour lets play of the entire game, because apparently the auto response to not seeing something is panic concerns.

I didn't say they were the same, buddy. I said it echoes of Skyrim's system. But that's all besides the point.

Sigh. I'm not panicking. I just noted that I thought Bethesda's built environments in past games have been inadequate and that there's plenty of evidence to suggest that this hasn't been addressed.

Not sure why everyone is jumping on the "the game isn't even finished yet" bandwagon when half of the threads on here are mere speculation anyway.

the reason that has never been addresses is because between the game engine and console limits it just does not work very well in beth games given how they build there world

So. I don't know how large we will be able to make them, but isn't one of the touted features of this game that you can build a bunch of settlements with trade and everything?

Not enough settlements with economy?
If you build them they will come.

I think that any 4 shack town is a settlement. And that's how it should be.
The fact we can build buildings is all you need to know if you want a large town with hundreds of npc dwellers and houses, in it then you build it up give it electricity, setup a radio tower, and protect it, the Npc's will come.... As will trouble....

If we are supposed to be the spark that starts the rebuilding of settlements then you are not very likely to see much until you get started.

So the fact there is only a few scattered remains of settlements before we start tinkering, with the world. Is to be expected. I would rather they work on the AI of the game, to give my settlements a realistic feel not just I build a house a npc walks up and claims it, rather a trader walks into my town says he is a trader I have to come to a deal with them help them out in some way and they offer to stay if I build them a shop....
When I build up my settlement Npc's arrive looking for shelter, I have to decide if they are good or bad for my settlement. Maybe I can use the radio to find Npc's with skills, I need a doctor, a farmer, a handy man, defenders for my settlements some one to brew my grog and make my wine..... if I can grow graqes, if I have a farmer who can. But Npc's only stay if they feel safe........ And are helped and have food and drink.

And... do you even notice that we don't even have seen the Institute in the footage? Does that mean the institute won't be there? Just because something isn't show don't mean it's not there.

And we already have seen some settlements in the footage.

A raider/slaver settlement: https://youtu.be/D5esyZPt5Jo?t=14m3s

A vault settlement: https://youtu.be/D5esyZPt5Jo?t=14m5s

And the lamps on the right side suggest there are living people too: https://youtu.be/D5esyZPt5Jo?t=14m8s

Game settlement complexity is usually reliant on computer/console processing power.

But the biggest challenge is that settlements need to have a point.

Assassins Creed Unity's Paris contained countless cloned houses to run through.

The Witcher 3's Novigrad has many plot-related buildings, but equally many more locked doors.

It's fine to have many more NPCs wandering around, but don't expect them all to offer you deep conversation.

Next gen will allow Fallout 4 to offer more settlements and NPCs in apocolyptia than Fallout 3,

but this is a post-war recovering civilisation, so I would expect pockets of society not full-sized towns (even in the shell of a city).

Agreed on system constraints.
Why else would the strip be sectioned off as it was?

Picking up an X Box 1 tomorrow- stoked to see what F4 will be able to do this gen.

you can take down most of the walls in NV with mods if you have a half decent pc

I'm sure mods will play a similar role this time around.
I've just always been a console player, so while the lure of a higher end machine is there for pc, I personally am just not particularly a PC guy- at least as far as games

.

Was replying to Mitheledh, the post immediately before mine. I knew I should have just quoted it anyway....

Yeah because it was impossible to get all your skills to 100 in fallout 3 and NV (sarcasm).

They haven't gotten rid of stats or skills, skills are just perks now and work in the exact same way, stats still exist in the game otherwise there would be no point in giving us S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats, which are the thing that perks are tied to.

Finally perks improving your effectiveness with weapons and skills are the whole point of perks, that and certain character building ones like cannibal.

I don't see why "system constraints" should be an issue. The major cities of all/most of Bethesda's open world games have always been divided by a loading screen; why should processing power be an issue? If Bethesda can render a huge open world, than surely they can manage a decent-sized city?

Having said that, I don't know the ins and outs of game development, so I could be wrong (probably am ).

The open world is actually divided into things known as cells, and the game only loads the cells directly around you in order to save processing power. It doesn't load the entire game world the moment you go outside, or anything like that.