» Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:40 pm
OP, you havent played the game enough. There are plenty of gun types that you and others are ignoring, which doesn't even include all of the unique weapons.
Yes, New Vegas had more weapons. But most of them felt the same and could be grouped together, whereas Bethesda chose to make less base weapons and allow the player to mod how they like. You can prefer one over the other, but to say FO4 has a lack of gun variety is just plain untrue.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:18 pm
this he have a really good point, u have alot more weapons on NV that only did was just change the model.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:28 am
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:08 pm
Sorry, but this complaint is a pet peeve of mine.
1. Don't confuse New Vegas's DLC Weapons with Vanilla weapons
New Vegas had a metric crapton of weapons added in DLC. It's not really fair to compare vanilla Fallout 4 with GOTY edition New Vegas.
2. Named weapons and Recolorings don't count
Named weapons with only slight diffrences in appearance and stats shouldn't really be counted as different weapons. I guess it's more fair if you count all the named weapons from both games, but people don't seem to do that.
3. The biggest one: The New Vegas System is completely different because it counts varaints seperately.
Let's look at submachine guns. Lots of people say that Fallout 4 only had 1 submachinegun compared New Vegas's 3:
FO4
-Submachinegun (Thompson)
New Vegas (base game)
-9mm SMG
-10mm SMG
- .22 SMG
Seem's like a gap right?
Well, not really. You see, if we compare the two on the same level, the FO4 actually has the same number. Why? Becuase auto pistols are classified as seperate SMGs in Vegas but as pistol derivatives in 4, even though there's no practical difference. So our list should really look like this:
4
- Submachinegun
- Auto 10mm
- Auto Pipe pistol
Vegas
- 9mm SMG
- 10mm SMG
- .22 SMG
But what about other weapon types? Well, again, this is because what 4 qualifies as derivatives, Vegas would qualify as seperate weapons. Let's take, for example, the double barreled shotgun. In Vegas, the DB shotgun and the sawed-off DB shotgun are classified as seperate weapons, but in 4, the sawed-off is a derivative of the full DB shotgun.
Another example: bolt-action rifles. In New Vegas, the hunting rifle, scoped hunting rifle, and military-grade sniper rifle would all be qualified as seperate weapons. In 4, they (in addition to the sawed-off hunting rifle) would all be qualified as hunting rifle derivatives, even though, appearance and stats wise, my Scoped Ported .50 Sniper Rifle with a Marksman's Stock has little in common with a Short .308 Hunting Rifle.
Really, all the full-auto mods would be seperate weapons under the New Vegas classification. A Revolving Pipe Sniper Rifle and an Automatic Pipe Rifle would've certainly been seperate weapons under the New Vegas system (and yes, I know they're not actually in New Vegas).
TL,DR: In Vegas, every derivative would be classified as a seperate weapon, especially the ones that change firing mode or ammo type. Therefore, New Vegas actually doesn't have nearly the leg up on 4 people think it does.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:12 pm
I wish they would at least let you have the gun in the wanderer trailer the m1a rifle like the game as like 2 pre war looking guns the submachine gun and the combat rifle (maybe its a bar rile) I was expecting more guns even tho they can be customized I feel like its not enough I love the game but Why don't they have the m1a and maybe a 1911 just a suggestion because they are kind of a 1950s vibe even tho its not the 1950s
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:16 pm
I think there is a problem of perception. Some of us believe the lack of "gun" variety is more of a lack of "type" variety, while others just lump types of guns together as guns.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:27 pm
Agreed. Should have had an M-14 like was shown in the Wanderer Trailer. I was very disappointed to find it was never included. Why they overlooked a 1911, a pump shotgun, and a real antimateriel rifle (that simply overpowers targets) just astounds me. Rechambering a hunting rifle in .50? A pipe gun in .50? I just scratch my head everytime wondering if I can send a letter to the Mojave and have Gunrunners ship me an AMR...with explosive rounds. Chambering a combat "rifle" in .45? Huh?
Weapon variety is a disappointment. I was really hoping for more than an over the top crafting and mod system that just doesn't seem to scratch that itch or allow us to craft/reload ammuniton...
But I do love the game. I'd just like to see DLC address more weapon variety...and maybe even give us some actual ammo types.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:57 am
So your argument is that perks somehow increase the variety of the guns?
That's not something I'd agree with.
I don't give a flying hoot about the perks, they've been there all through the games, so it's not like that's something new.
There's still alot fewer guns in this game than there were in the old ones.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:32 am
Sorry, but they didn't to me.
So, I guess what you're saying is that in your view, they could have just had 1 pistol, 1 rifle, 1 smg and 1 shotgun, and you'd be fine because they all felt the same to you.
But for some of us, variety is the spice of life, and there's just not that much variety in FO4.
I posted a pretty comprehensive list, and it's not that big.
"just change the model"?
That's exactly what we're talking about here. Hell, I don't care if they all work the same, as long as they look different.
I'd take 5 different looking smg's that have the same stats over 1 smg model with 20 different stats any day.
There really isn't much visual variety in FO4.
Pretty much all pipe weapons look the same (and they're EVERYWHERE).
The "real" weapons are pretty few in variety.
And the novel guns are just that, novel.
1: FO:NV still had more different weapons in its base form than this one has.
2: I didn't count them when making my list.
3: that's kinda the point here. Sure, you've got the potential to turn every pistol into an SMG in this game.
However, they still look the same.
What we're talking about is visual variety.
Right now, it feels like everyone has the same gun, pretty much.
Upgrade the Combat Rifle with a long barrel, stock and a large magazine and you'll get that look, sort of.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:55 am
That was just an example. If looking at any game a certain way, we can see lack of variety or total variety. These lists and arguments mean nothing.
In other words, a Plasma sniper rifle is a separate weapon from a plasma pistol if you believe that the mods attached to it make it a different weapon (one designed for long range sniping), so the argument is pointless because it literally is only perception.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:49 am
Fallout New Vegas had over 154 weapons in the base game. This count includes the Unique variants as well.
Fallout New Vegas Weapons:
11 Pistols
18 Rifles
4 SMGs
8 Shotguns
2 Heavy Weapons
9 Energy Pistols
12 Energy Rifles
7 Energy Heavy Weapons
8 Explosive Projectile Weapons
7Thrown Explosive Weapons
8 Placed Weapons
19 Bladed Weapons
17 Blunt Weapons
3 Thrown Bladed Weapons
17 Unarmed Weapons
2 Other
The other at the bottom is for devices that are not necessarily weapons. They are the Binoculars and the Codac R9000 Camera.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:02 pm
It's the price you pay for extensive weapon-modding possibilities.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:41 am
» Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:14 am
I'm also frustrated with the lack of gun variety, it gets a bit samey after a while. Loving the mods but they'll take you only so far. More weapons please Bethy!
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:41 am
I think the problem of weapons variety is more in the awful balancing of the mods and the fact that automatic weapons are terribly useless. Currently rifles are far stronger and more useful than anything else with the perk system that only leads to mass rifle domination because people would not find reason to invest in something else.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:54 pm
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:39 pm
And then we remember how empty the map was in new vegas.... It's all about priorities. I rather have weapon cusomization on almost every gun than more guns you can't cusomize.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:30 pm
They aren't mutually exclusive. Why can't we more weapons and keep the same level of customization?
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:07 am
True, but like I've already said I would have preferred twice as many weapon types and half the mods.
The sad part is, if you DON'T get the perks then the mods you can actually do yourself are very limited. You're stuck with very lightly modded guns or just hope you find good stuff.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:15 pm
Well, as would I, but honestly that's the least of my problems with the game. I could probably live with just 10 weapons in total - especially when the focus on the FPS is this much.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:38 pm
This has gone a little off-course...
Most everyone has forgotten my point about some weapons out-classing the others.
Pipe anything becomes worthless once you actually have the dedicated weapon type.
A fully modified Combat Rifle becomes 100% better than a fully modded Hunting Rifle (given same ammo type).
When doing stealth, there is no pistol worth using.
The only ammo that's hard to find is plasma, 2mm EC, .44, .50 cal, and (arguably) mini-nukes.
At least FNV still gave you a reason to use the "lower-leveled" weapons.
The 10mm compared to the 12.7mm did little under half the damage, but made up for it with a higher magazine, and almost 3x better spread.
The cowboy repeater compared to the hunting rifle did little under 40% less damage, but had a higher fire rate and much better AP cost.
Another very important thing to note is ammo. Nearly every high-end weapon used rare/expensive/high-metabolism ammo. With the ammo crafting system (that was locked behind the repair/science/explosives skill), this was less of a problem than you might think, but it was still a very real mechanic that added difficulty to maintaining usage of such weapons, since you couldn't retrieve every casing.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:11 pm
The weapons do eventually outclass others but there are weird break points where it works to go back to an early weapon class that can be modded up to more useful than otherwise higher tier weapons. i ditched pipe weapons early on only to go back to them when i had a full auto pipe assault weapon with near zero recoil. It was outpacing the DPR on a .45 Combat rifle with a modded receiver. Granted, the Combat Rifle bumped past it again when i grabbed the next level of Gun Nut but that didnt make the pipe weapon completely useless. It was still great since i had thousands more rounds of .38 than of .45. I didnt need the extra oomph of the .45 for most encounters for a long while so i used the .38. It wasnt unitl i was closing in on level 30 that i finally felt the pipe weapons werent worth the weight anymore, that is some surprising longevity to them.
Something else to think about it that the huge gaps in weapon capabilities didnt really open up to me until i started investing in the Rifleman, Gunslinger and Commando perk lines, before that point things were very comparable. It makes tons of sense that specialization in one class of weapon makes the others look weak.
Though there is no saving the submachine gun. the damage never catches up to the rarity of the ammo, bby the time you can reliably use it without fear of running dry you will be blowing throw full 100 round mags to drop anything.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:20 pm
Basically, what it looks like, is that the OP wants SPECIFIC gun types. Colt .45, Glock 19, Winchester 30-06, etc. It seems like it's more an aesthetic problem with him than an actual problem with the gun mechanics.
That is where mods come in.
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:39 am
Development time & budget. What do you want to give up, to gain that?
» Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:38 pm
You forgot submachine guns in your list. Adding those you have almost 30 different types of firearms. You can say that is too little and that is fine, but to me that is plenty of guns. Not to mention there are quite a few unique weapons visually(like a shotgun that looks like a submachine gun, for example) to satisfy the amount of gun variety for me.
As for certain guns simply outclassing others, that is in almost every Shooter RPG except maybe Borderlands because it had such a ridiculous amount of guns. I played Fallout 3 and NV and remember quite clearly finding one or two guns early on that I used a majority of the game. That is nothing new.
