Land Size?

Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:10 am

And do you really have to insult people which dosn't share your view?

Ever heard about Blueray?

And didn't we just discuss this? Even if the disc is too small, you could release the game on more than one disc. As i said, it has been done before.

:rolleyes:

You started the whole thing yourself by your "lets blame the consoles" nonsense and now you wanna withdraw?

Didn't say I didn't :shrug: Just I don't want to be punched in the face by mods.
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Nadia Nad
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:28 pm

Yes the rolleyes smiley is really a fabulous argument solver.

Didn't say I didn't Just I don't want to be punched in the face by mods.


Fair enough but why didn't you think about that "before" you started the whole thing.
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Ice Fire
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:33 am

Yes the rolleyes smiley is really a fabulous argument solver.

I already said about them before. Kkinda svcks to repeat myself so much.

Fair enough but why didn't you think about that "before" you started the whole thing.

If I thought before I posted, I might aswell leave the forums :P
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Ron
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:11 pm

I already said about them before. Kkinda svcks to repeat myself so much.


Repeat what? you haven't given any reasons for why it couldn't be done. I will respect your choise hoever. I promise to shut up now. :)
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Joe Alvarado
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:47 pm

Let there be peace. For I have the solution.

The equation is easy.

You just add both of your problems with eachother's views together, and divide by the number of compromises that make sense, which happens to be zero.

So X+X/0

Easy.



Seriously, the whole PC vs. Console is as old as dirt, and there hasn't been an easy solution. Heck, people will argue about PS3 vs. XBox 360.

... And Rellac... what do you mean by "punched in the face by mods"? Lol.
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Markie Mark
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:22 pm

A large, procedurally generated world with varying degrees of hand-craft designs across the landscape, giving each area something of an unique touch.
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biiibi
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:01 pm

I'd love to see a city sewer system the size of Oblivion, along with the city to go with it, and more.
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Ally Chimienti
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:49 pm

Anybody played Mortal Online?

That game shows how a massive landmass that takes about an hour to walk from 1 city to another with a dangerous environment can be very disorientating and frustrating if you're a low level. I drown from having too much stuff in my pockets to sell, got killed by a Domestic Pig & Gazelles more times that I can count, and we won't even get into having to run from PKers in an MMO that you can kill anybody you want. So, as nice as a very large landmass sounds, I'd like to keep it bigger than Oblivion & Morrowind, but not so much so that it takes you 10 minutes to get to someplace that spawns the lowest level animals without a horse.

A super-large landmass could, in theory, work. But we also have to take into account that Bethesda has much more to do than just make a landmass and let us play, they still need to make meshes for weapons, clothes, armor, characters, architecture, random items, monsters, plants, ingredients, caves, ruins, forts, grass (different than other plant meshes), effects, etc. They also have to record voices for spoken dialogue, plan their story and test everything for bugs; add interesting NPCs, Areas, and Quests; they improved their whole system for a while; they've had to plan where there main quest was going, they've had to test it for bugs, they have to create new & more interesting magic effects/systems, they may have had to improve the fighting system everybody complained about, they had to think of original stories for every NPC, they had to create more lore, they had to create new animations and work on old ones, they had to update their AI, they had to make dungeons complete-able (not to mention if they added something like crawling or climbing, that would take a lot more time), they've had to make more specific Animation Markers, they've had to create different sounds & environmental noises, they've had to make music and make sure it fits the game, they've probably had to play test more often than we've played their games collectively, they've had to run around looking at some real-life references (probably), they've had to figure out the artword/logo/box art that they want, they've had to figure out how they were going to advertise for it, and they still might create even new systems in-game that would take some time to develop. And that still doesn't include all the time they'd have to spend coding the next CS to make sure after they were done we could modify the game and be able to change it if we didn't like something.

We really can't ask for a super-large landmass unless you'd want to triple their work load on everything.

Think of the people doing this too, they can't work for 10 years on a game, they have to release it generally quickly so that they don't lose too much money. They still have a budget, and honestly, they still get bored. They're human, just like us, not some collaboration of gods named "Bethesda Softworks"... well actually, that last statement is arguable.

A very large landmass is possible, but an "Epic and Real-World" Sized game would take too long with today's technology... unless you guys would want everything to be completely randomly generated. Which I'm sure Bethesda would like that just as much as us... which is to say not at all since it would mean no custom hand-crafted world. With little allusions and easter-eggs hidden everywhere.


I think what would make the super-large landmass (whole of Tamriel (not actual-size or anything though....)) work is keeping the provinces very separated. Unlike Oblivion where nearly every quest had you going to each town (and practically required fast-travel), inter-city quests should be a bit limited and important, while inter-province quests should be very limited and be part of a very important chain.

And as has been said, procedural generation will do wonders on many things such as forests, wilderness and house-junk. It's much less time and data they'd have to spend on it. Of course, hand-crafting important parts is a must. But who honestly pays attention to the thousands of trees you pass by when going to the next town?
The more sandboxed each element is, the more hard-content can be created.
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Blackdrak
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:49 pm

... And Rellac... what do you mean by "punched in the face by mods"? Lol.

Where's the fun in "shouted at an warned by moderators"? ^_^

I'd love to see a city sewer system the size of Oblivion, along with the city to go with it, and more.

You mean an underground sewer-city? I'd love to see that. I'd also like for sewers to make sense. even if there's no toilet using AI, I'd like to see toilets in houses. nothing too advanced, just holes and outhouses.
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Rob
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:24 am

Where's the fun in "shouted at an warned by moderators"? ^_^

Oooh, I thought you meant mods like... modifications. I was confused, now it makes sense. :D
You mean an underground sewer-city? I'd love to see that. I'd also like for sewers to make sense. even if there's no toilet using AI, I'd like to see toilets in houses. nothing too advanced, just holes and outhouses.

You can just imagine the names of the quests.
"Down the tubes"
"What's that smell?"
"Stepped on something"
"The Porcelain Throne"
"Plunging into the Depths"
"... But why is it green?"
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Javaun Thompson
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:55 pm

now it makes sense. :D

that's not my style <_<

You can just imagine the names of the quests.
"Down the tubes"
"What's that smell?"
"Stepped on something"
"The Porcelain Throne"
"Plunging into the Depths"
"... But why is it green?"

"Hilarious quest Sewer-themed title"

But seriously, large sewers are surely a great place to take refuge? Sure, it's unhygenic, and smells like crap... for a good reason... But it's shelter. There's no rain, it warmer than sleeping outside, and you won't be moved along by the guards, because you're out of sight, and I doubt they'd want to go down there. I'd like to see makeshift camps in the sewers, similar to the one in Futurama, without the comedy or futureness.
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:31 am

that's not my style <_<


"Hilarious quest Sewer-themed title"

But seriously, large sewers are surely a great place to take refuge? Sure, it's unhygenic, and smells like crap... for a good reason... But it's shelter. There's no rain, it warmer than sleeping outside, and you won't be moved along by the guards, because you're out of sight, and I doubt they'd want to go down there. I'd like to see makeshift camps in the sewers, similar to the one in Futurama, without the comedy or futureness.

In the Imperial City's sewers, there are camps. Goblins, vampires, and some Mythic Dawn members live down there. You can find the camps of the goblins and the Mythic Dawn, so they are down there. However, I doubt normal people would be where goblins, vampires, and Daedra-worshipping nuts are and I doubt the sewers in a future game would be a safe place, especially if guards don't go down there.
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Dalton Greynolds
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:13 am

But seriously, large sewers are surely a great place to take refuge? Sure, it's unhygenic, and smells like crap... for a good reason... But it's shelter. There's no rain, it warmer than sleeping outside, and you won't be moved along by the guards, because you're out of sight, and I doubt they'd want to go down there. I'd like to see makeshift camps in the sewers, similar to the one in Futurama, without the comedy or futureness.

Well, people could easily set up camps outside so they don't have to smell poop all the time. The sewers of Solitude would be amazing because I imagine Solitude as a huge city, lol.
Except I remember reading the farther north you go, the less Nords need shelter and stuff because of... something. *shrug* I'll look it up later
In the Imperial City's sewers, there are camps. Goblins, vampires, and some Mythic Dawn members live down there. You can find the camps of the goblins and the Mythic Dawn, so they are down there. However, I doubt normal people would be where goblins, vampires, and Daedra-worshipping nuts are and I doubt the sewers in a future game would be a safe place, especially if guards don't go down there.

Nobody goes down there who wants to be followed. Lol
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Marlo Stanfield
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:44 pm

Well, people could easily set up camps outside so they don't have to smell poop all the time. The sewers of Solitude would be amazing because I imagine Solitude as a huge city, lol.
Except I remember reading the farther north you go, the less Nords need shelter and stuff because of... something. *shrug* I'll look it up later

Nobody goes down there who wants to be followed. Lol

Also, the Blades use the sewers to remain undetected as they travel through the Imperial City.
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Jonathan Egan
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:10 pm

Also, the Blades use the sewers to remain undetected as they travel through the Imperial City.

Hmm, for some reason, unknown to me... that reminded me of the Ayleids of Bravil who hid in the water or high-up during the day, and then killed everyone at night.

Probably because there are vampires who live under-water in Skyrim, and a major way to get into a city undetected is by going through the water... that'd be a fun in-game event.

[Realization] How is any of this about land size?
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Far'ed K.G.h.m
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:35 pm

[Realization] How is any of this about land size?

This is the Bethesda forums. It's all one big Off topic forum ^_^

Anyhoo... I never actually got the feeling of bad hygiene when I was in sewers in any game. Always just feels like another dungeon. Wish they'd look into it more...
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:03 am

You mean an underground sewer-city? I'd love to see that. I'd also like for sewers to make sense. even if there's no toilet using AI, I'd like to see toilets in houses. nothing too advanced, just holes and outhouses.

Not what I meant, but I like it. I was just wishfully thinking about how nice it would be to get lost in a city the size of the whole of Cyrodiil in Oblivion -- assuming it's well-done, of course.
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Jordan Moreno
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:15 pm

In the Imperial City's sewers, there are camps. Goblins, vampires, and some Mythic Dawn members live down there. You can find the camps of the goblins and the Mythic Dawn, so they are down there. However, I doubt normal people would be where goblins, vampires, and Daedra-worshipping nuts are and I doubt the sewers in a future game would be a safe place, especially if guards don't go down there.


My freed slave/theif character (in avatar) practically lived in the sewers for awhile! It's a great place to run and hide if you know where you're going. The Imperial legions would follow me down there only to wind up getting lost (or give up searching)


On-topic: Voted "somewhere in between". Of course I would like more area to explore (who wouldn't?), but it would be impossible to make something Daggerfell-size but with the attention to details Oblivion and Morrowind required.
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Jessica Stokes
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:58 pm

As much as most people probably hate to hear it a LOT can be done with randomly generated environments.
Now I don't mean "absolutely everything is randomly generated" but some zones. For example the inside of a forest, a desert, wasteland layouts... All those can be randomly generated on the games startup, some can even change during the cause of the game like dunes in a desert moving.

If a game is set inland again this can be done to simulate borderlands, simply have random terrain that just goes on. Here it could even do it in a way that you not really move any further away, the game world just "warps" around you and creates a random terrain giving you the illusion of moving.


And BTW random terrain has gotten a FAR way since Daggerfall.
Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBa6M3GEZNM on the upcoming game "Infinity: The quest for Earth", those planets are 100% randomly generated and in my opinion the terrains even without vegetation look a lot more convincing that Oblivions.
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Dalley hussain
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:52 pm

This reminds me of the coming up DaggerXL; a massive, random landscape that will (with mods) have unique areas.
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SexyPimpAss
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:05 pm

Double Post <_<
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Isaac Saetern
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:56 am

And BTW random terrain has gotten a FAR way since Daggerfall.
Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBa6M3GEZNM on the upcoming game "Infinity: The quest for Earth", those planets are 100% randomly generated and in my opinion the terrains even without vegetation look a lot more convincing that Oblivions.

I just think that Bethesda has to learn how to get this done well first. I'd for them to create some other game, where they get the hang of randomisation, then get it on, what would likely be, TESVI.

Who wouldn't like huge worlds, full of detail that's a new experience every time?

Of course, the basic shape of the world shouldn't be randomised, just a few small mountains and details.

Although, there should be an option. Some people have really low hard drive space, and should be allowed to have a smaller world.
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kirsty joanne hines
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:11 am

Well there are just a few advantages for bigger world as well.
For one you can have bigger cities, the tiny village-cities in Oblivion just weren't convincing.
Then you can have a actual feeling of size and not just the illusion of it. You can place farms that actually have big fields for example or forests you can actually get lost in.
You can have larger overworld structures as well, no need to bury all your ruins underground.
And you can also place "big creatures" in your world without making them seem clustered up.
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Jessica Raven
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:52 pm

I think if they took Assassins creed as a yard stick and then expanded upon it, Bethesda style. There were only 3 "cities" but they were massive. The was also a fairly large game world, but it mainly consisted of paths with occasional open areas, but inside of them were other small villages (probably about the size of any city in Oblivion)

All that would need to be done would be to open up a general map area for exploration, throw in some dungeons and settlements, and then on top of that, make all the buildings in the city accessible. (In AC they were closed except a few)

This is where randomization of interiors would come in handy. You would basically have pre-sets (rich/poor/etc) and furniture, decorations, items would be generated. You could even set (Occupation/inhabitant) so for instance you might get the home of knight that includes arms and armor, or the home of a thief that has a bag of loot, lock pics, etc etc.

Then, all that needs to be done is have each room checked for bugs, maybe one or two things switched around. Special items or arrangements would be made for quest specific rooms, houses, buildings.
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Shelby McDonald
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:41 am

Even Bigger 31.54%..... Who of these voters have even played Daggerfall? I'd propably be satisfied with 10% of Daggerfall. So in between I go. Of course all depends on the way of building it. Speedtree and other software can give us endless landmasses, some of it might even be interesting to adventure :D Nothing prevents us from actually having a 1:1 scope. Like, 10.000 kilometers from one end of the map to another (on PC).
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Devin Sluis
 
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