Also note, my statement implies an awful lot of cells, but that's wouldn't be true or else someone would notice. I'd put the number of cells at around 5 with a number of free-acting agents.

So, let me see how this works. One cell has a group of individuals within....these individuals work to maintain the order by secretly working, is that it?


Well, the Mages Guild knows he is a vampire, they made a deal to keep it a secret. Although Janus Hassildor does not have any "Love" for the Mages Guild, he still "Does not want to see it destroyed". Also, he doesn't like Necromancers either. I guess only a few number of people are aware, the Mages Guild higher ups, the Argonian servant in the Skingrad Castle and Vicente Valtieri, as well as other vampires(Blood Crust cavern vampires were aware of Janus Hassildor's condition as well).

Well, yes, they know, but I'm talking about Janus' superiors. What does he do when the Emperor passes through? What about when he's summoned before the Council? Perhaps he could get away with it if he lived in Bruma or another province, but not if you're neighbours with a psychic Emperor and Imperial Battlemage, both of whom would have easy access to the Mages Guild's secrets.

Well, if he fed himself constantly, I think he would be in a good condition. Although I think he did not feed cause of his stress with his comatose stated wife, but thats just me.

That's better than what I had in my head. Working off of that, we have the leadership who contacts one of these cells through an intermediary the cells operate as a group/coven/meeting group working as a group to work towards their given goal then at the bottom of the organizational (but maybe not hierarchical) totem pole are free agents attached to the cell who for whatever reason don't work with the larger group and are likely the people who regulars most interact with... this is starting to sound a little like the Dark Brotherhood and their Speakers.

Yeah, that works much better. I had the leadership cell and then they managed independent cells or one-man free lancers, but that'd attract a lot of attention to wherever they're currently hiding out and anyone chasing them would easily be able to put 2 and 2 together.

Finally remember that they don't rule the empire and they don't want to. The order likely exists as a means of protecting their bloodline from inter-vampire politics or of keeping them hidden from the public. Now that may include having an agent on the Elder Council, but no matter how superior they think they are, these vampire's patron is Clavicus Vile, not Dagon, Prince of Ambition.

Mortals fear them, And rightly so, They feed on them, And fear turns to contempt. Its not a surprise that they are hunted down and destroyed.

That's if they are ever hunted down or easily detected. If I recall correctly, only the feral vampires are often hunted and slaughtered. Seridur wasn't hunted because no one knew he was a vampire, which is why he made a vampire hunting order to kill other vampires. Clearly, the vampires he wanted dead where savage and barbaric, the same ones Count Hassildor hates. Wouldn't make sense to kill your own clan mate unless there was a good reason. What he did was further his own agendas, he manipulated the vampire hunters and remained secret about his nature. Although he screwed up when he fed on Rolfina(Roland's lover) at night and did nothing to Roland after he caught him red handed. He thought if he blamed the murder on Roland, it would be fine, but it didnt work that way, now did it? I guess his machination worked in some sense, Roland did not even bother telling anyone because "Seridur is a respected member of the community, they would never believe he is a vampire", which ties into the tenets:

"And manipulate the hand of society to mete out our agendas."

"We live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power."

"Second, devote your pursuits to the procurement of influence, political and otherwise. Our strength is not in physical numbers, but in skillful manipulation of society."

We can also note Jakben Earl of Imbel, was also a respected member, although being a reclusive man, he was known for being a "good" fellow, although snobby. "The Courier is shocked to learn that Earl Jakben, a local noble of previously unblemished reputation, is revealed to have one of these vampires!"

And we have the unnamed vampire in Immortal Blood, who feeds inside a chapel(Daggerfall vampires were hurt when walking inside holy places). The Vampire Hunter was on a unquenchable quest for understanding and how to kill the varieties of vampires in Tamriel, but in the end, he was killed by the very man he sought information. And by how the book states, the frustrated vampire hunter(Distraught because he couldn't "find" a single Cyrodiilic vampire) was killed when he was awake....while it does not say that, the vampire caught him by surprise...he was not asleep. And by Seridu's line in Memorial Cave "Enough monologuing, time to feed!" proves that they dont need to feed on sleeping victims, but merely chose so to remain discreet and not bulk up a kill count.


What got me confused was this:

"Do not feed where you may be found out, or on those who may not suspect your passing. Avoid daylight by lifestyle; dispel common belief in our kind"

They do walk in daylight when fed, we all know that from gameplay elements and here in the book. But do not feed on those who may not suspect their passing? Or dispel common belief in our kind? Hmm..what kind of beliefs are those?











Their patron is also Molag Bal, Prince of domination and enslavement and strife. It makes sense they don't want to rule the Empire, I thinks it's a good idea that they let the humans fo the ruling. Otherwise there would be civil wars and power games, political struggle for the greater power. Better to manipulate, feed, remain healthy, live in peace. I still can't believe there was a vampire dumb enough to reveal his secret to an Orc woman...yes, i'm talking about Lovidicus.

To be honest, the vampires in Cyrodiil struck me as no better than homeless Skooma junkies with super powers. If they had any sort of organization or methodology, they wouldn't be huddling together in smelly caves day AND night. If they have a system, it clearly doesn't work. There are ruins all over the countryside and they could easily clean one up and use it as a headquarters... but no, they live in holes like Bilbo's inbred cousins.

I mostly agree with you. But he asked a hypothetical... presumably because he wanted to mod or fanfix something. I obliged him.

I really think you got the vampires confused. They don't huddle in caves....hell, Janus Hassildor lives in a damn castle, and Jakben owns a large house in the Imperial City. I think you are talking about the crazy, savage junkies who attack everyone, including their own kind down in the caves and forts. The one who do not have control over the blood frenzy.

The enemy vampires are babies, right? Blood-gorged Molag bal babies, who crawl out of a white stone from Secunda. And their pvssyr is the roar of a mother in labor...

Vampires in the Elder Scrolls games are parasites born of [censored] and murder.
They are an affront to many of the Gods, No matter how civilised they act, They are monsters, Killing and drinking the blood of mortals. One way or the other there going to be found and destroyed for it.
Janus Hassildor is on the edge of a knife, Meddling in the affairs of mortals wont help his cause it will only cut his wounds deeper. Mortals fear what they dont understand and like i said in my previous post, It leads to contempt, Not only will they purge him, But allso his followers and kin (if he has any other than his wife).There is only so long you can wear a mask, Before people see the real you.
Purges have happend before, Morrowinds Vampires where brought to near extinction. Some survived yes, Perhaps from long sleeping.
But there culling is invevitable.

MEH. They fear what they don't understand, and that what makes them inferior....If I recall correctly, Werewolves also had a crusade against them back in Daggerfall, but it was futile because some had a dormant Curse in them. I dont see vampires as monsters, frankly. What's a predator to the prey? A threat. And evil is a label used to classify these threats. It would be better if mortals were wiped out and destroyed from Nirn, but of course, food supply is needed both to feed the vampires and keep Werewolves healthy. And there would be no sacrifices for the Daedric Princes...

And the gods are selfish punks, it was a good spit in the face for Molag Bal to show Arkay what he had created. Vampires, neither dead nor alive, but simply both. And Werewolves, who are abominations to Kynareth, a good middle finger for him. Never liked the Nine, never will.

Janus Hassildor was BORN the Count, Jakben was a master criminal long before he was infected, and Vicente lives in the Sanctuary. All three had great advantages long before they became vampires. If you're unlucky enough to not own your own county or have years of experience in subterfuge or be a member of an underground order of death fanatics, then it appears that yes, you're going to have to get used to living in a smelly cave feeding on idiot travelers.

but Vicente became a DB member after becoming an Order member.

the crazy vamires that attack everything are feral, although not neccisarily. IE: i think that the bloodcrust vampires may have been hunting down Hassilhofdor because he had left the Order.

If there is a secret Order of vampires, it is so secret, even vampires are not let in...

If you're an underground organization obsessed with blood, wouldn't you?

Hassildor has stated quite plainly he feels zero kinship with other vampires. He thinks they're mindless, ravening beasts who should be set on fire. This prejudice may not extend to other more cultured vampires like Vicente, but he definitely hates the average ones and I doubt he'd affiliate himself with any such society.

He does, indeed. But just the mindless ones. The Order of Cyrodiilic vampires also hates other barbaric tribes, hates them so much, that its obvious what they do to them. Cyrodiil has one vampire clan, meaning they dont share their territory and they "Ousted all competitors", meaning their pretty selfish when it comes to their lands. Which is why Janus told you to wipe out the other vampires. I bet if they were civilized, he wouldn't care, as long as they were calm about thier feeding habits. Seridur didn't care, he sent people to kill vampires in his "Vampire Hunting Order", probably the savages ones before they hired you along. Even though the Virtuous Blood order was comprised of amateurs and "losers"




"Always be mindful of our Patrons, and preserve the Order. Devote yourself to these ideals always, and the Order shall count you amongst our own."

I think for a vampire to be let in, they have to prove themselves worthy of joining the club, or be considered a member. The ideals of political gain and influence through deception and manipulation, not outright force of actions like the Quarra clan. They worship Clavicus and Molag, and they must walk among men and twist them to their offices of power. Then, they will be considered members.



Why do you think Janus left the Order? Even ingame, when the Player becomes a vampire, his disposition towards you raises to 20+, and he says he "Hates vampire" the feral ones. But that's just me. I imagine they where there because :

"I assure you, I am not responsible for them. I would never be so careless. Where there are mindless animals, predators are never far behind. This is not the first time such a thing has happened, however. On some level, they’re aware of my presence. Whether they covet all that I have, or simply wish to see it destroyed, I do not know. They have given in to their instincts, and are little more than animals. They need to be exterminated, one way or another."

If they were to hunt down Hassildor for him leaving the Order, wouldn't that make them a bit more civilized and be members themselves of the Order to do it? Also, if the Bloodcrust vampires were part of the Order, then they wouldn't of been "Mindless animals" and they would of manipulated some chump into doing the wrk for them , not sit around in the cave biting down any passenger.

Has anyone or anything ingame even mentioned this order? Is there any canon proof at all? Do the developers themselves know about it?

We've got Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum, or however it's titled. It implies an organizing force. That's what we're going off of.

Yes, as Mehrunes mentioned, we got the book "Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum" and the book "Immortal Blood" ingame. From gameplay elements and some characters that may fit the description and nature of this particular order of vampires, we can be sure it is Canon.

I see. I'll check it out before giving a proper response.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Immortal_Blood

Okay, so there apparently is a proper order of vampires. However, I must point out that they seem to still have failed at the 'taking over the world' part. The highest ranking vampire in Cyrodiil still actively despises vampires in general, though I concede that 'Jakben, Earl of Imbel' and Lord Lovidicus of Crowhaven are possible proof of success. Not Seridur, who while actively working with other vampires, had already lost his cover by the time you meet him.

But still, I admit that certain Cyrodiilic vampires are probably working together in some secret enterprise... I just can't imagine them in the same league as the Dark Brotherhood or Mythic Dawn.