Legendary items/artifacts : V - Skyrim

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:44 pm

But then you find Umbra at a low level and the game becomes too easy. The weapon could always level with you I suppose.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:31 am

i agree completely!

artifacts should have set strength, too... not be leveled, i mean, a legendary weapon isnt going to be very legendary if its leveled to you, and ya come across it at level 5 or whatever, its gonna be out-ranked by a weapon you can buy for a few gold and enchant it yourself!

also, i loved going on crazy wild hunts for special items in morrowind... i remember when i decided to hunt down all the pieces of daedric armor... that was one hell of an adventure!

so many great memories from morrowind... i loved adventuring around aimlessly and coming across unique items and artifacts, just like it should be!

i really hope they bring back that total freedom and that same feeling morrowind gave me whenever i set out on an adventure.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:37 am

i agree completely!

artifacts should have set strength, too... not be leveled, i mean, a legendary weapon isnt going to be very legendary if its leveled to you, and ya come across it at level 5 or whatever, its gonna be out-ranked by a weapon you can buy for a few gold and enchant it yourself!

also, i loved going on crazy wild hunts for special items in morrowind... i remember when i decided to hunt down all the pieces of daedric armor... that was one hell of an adventure!

so many great memories from morrowind... i loved adventuring around aimlessly and coming across unique items and artifacts, just like it should be!

i really hope they bring back that total freedom and that same feeling morrowind gave me whenever i set out on an adventure.

Apart from the main quest itself, that was favourite part of morrowind. I cant wait to see the artifacts included in skyrim.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:21 am

I completely agree that they should be fewer, harder to acquire, and perhaps for a couple, near impossible (level 40 to even think about it).

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:22 am

I've chosen I party agree.

This is a good idea, i'd like to go further with.

I don't want easy-to-get artifacts at all.
I want some artifacts hard to get.

I want others only achievable by killing its owner (villains, and well respected leaders, visionaries too),
OR in some cases trading it for another artifact, which its owner has more use for.

If you want to have all of the strongest atrifacts, you'll have to make difficult decisions including morals.

Well, that's pretty much like this in Morrowind except for trading artifacts and the later which I don't agree with. First of all, any item (including artifacts) should be in-game at all times. Yes you could trade artifacts, but you could still kill the NPC or steal the artifact back. Maybe a difficult decision may make you get an artifact in some way, but you should always be able to get every artifact one way or another. I don't want my warrior to get into the mages guild because I wouldn't be able to collect all artifacts otherwise. Though there can be cases like with the fork of horripilation where you need to give it to a daedra lord (I mean, you can't really take anything back from a daedra lord).

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:36 pm

Leveled named items was pretty much the single worst thing about Oblivion's level-scaling, so definitely don't bring back that.

And yeah, not every legendary item should necessarily be attached to a marked quest.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:25 pm

I wouldn't mind having more legendary items or artifacts but also don't make them incredibly easy to get. Also Level scaled Quest Rewards have to go if you do a quest at Level 1 you should get the same reward at Level 20 although if that system is implemented then the quests have to either get harder or you tone down the rewards.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:45 am

Once I realized all the good stuff was leveled and attached to quests in Oblivion it really killed any incentive to explore. The complete (or near) lack of leveled items in Morrowind actually made me want to risk my neck in random caves, ruins, and dungeons to see what I could scrounge up. In Oblivion I just had to wait until I was a certain level or go find a certain quest, then a few levels later whatever I had received became useless. To really get players to explore and experience the world I think it HAS to be like Morrowind.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:58 pm

I really would like to see the Morrowind style hand placed loot come back. It made exploring significantly more fun. I also agree that they should do away with leveled quest items and that very few of the best items should be obtained via questing.

I'd like to see quests that give you a good item for exploring some location, but if you look really well, there might be an even better item available.

I'd like to see some items just laying around the world in various spots, no combat required. Things like and old ring or amulet at the bottom of a body of water, or stored in a jewelry box in someone's house. A weapon hidden it some random rock crevice, or an old tree trunk, etc.

I don't really care if super powerful items are obtainable by people at level 1. If you happen to stumble across the item then good for you. I could care less about people that don't roleplay and are min/maxers. If they want to go straight for all of the known best items in the game, then let them. It doesn't affect my gameplay at all.

Edit:
Oops, this was supposed to be posted in the newer thread on the same subject.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:40 pm

I loved searching for artifacts in Morrowind.
I hope the helm of oreyn bearclaw and the saviors hide show up again were two of my favorites.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:30 pm

I loved searching for artifacts in Morrowind.
I hope the helm of oreyn bearclaw and the saviors hide show up again were two of my favorites.

Actually, I'd love to see every artifact from Tamrielic lore

Or at least almost every.
My favourite artifact was definitely Chrysamere. So powerful...
It would be really cool to see it in Skyrim.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:49 am

Yes I agree......make them hidden very well and actually challenging to get. I really do not want them in a random dungeon either unless it is hidden very well. I would rather hear a rumor about a place and maybe get a quest where I first have to find a key that is in another hidden or hard dungeon and after that I can go looking for the other place where the legendary item is located.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:54 pm

Something I really missed in Oblivion was legendary items/artifacts. Sure, there was some really good artifacts. Umbra sword, all the daedric artifacts, etc. Some quest rewards were also very nice.
BUT, my point is: I don't think ALL legendary items/artifacts should be related to quests. In Oblivion, they basically were. I honestly don't remember a really great artifact that I got from somewhere other than a quest.

In Morrowind, things were different. There, some of the legendary items/artifacts were related to quests (especially Mages Guild and Temple quests and of course the main quest ) but far from all were. Many of the artifacts in Morrowind were something you stumbled upon when you randomly searched dungeons, heard a mysterious rumour, or did some completely other quest that related to that specific dungeon and not to that specific artifact. I think this was really good. A very nice balance, which I hope to see in Skyrim too.

In addition, I think legendary items/artifacts in Skyrim should be stronger/better, like how they were in Morrowind. They should also be hard to get... and be well hidden. I remember when I first discovered the artifact Eleidon's Ward.
It was high up near the ceiling in a long forgotten, well protected, well locked daedric room in a cave. I mean, that's simply awesome. It's things like this that makes it feel really worth searching everywhere. You never knew if you were about to find another legendary item.

Do you agree?

Well Umbra was technically part of a quest but I originally stumbled across the ruins why exploring and made the mistake of attacking Umbra on my mage at point blank range >.>. Umbra is well protected even on normal difficulty Umbra is strong. I play on max difficulty and Umbra is a god, which makes it all the more fun to kill her hehe.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:23 pm

To be honest most everything about oblivion is/was very non-legendary...Especially gear! I would love unique and powerful gear hidden around the world, I doubt it will happen though.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:56 am

Luckily Fallout 3 fixed this and they went back to no (or little, I didn't notice any) level scaling on weapons. I found one of my favorite Plasma Rifles (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/A3-21%27s_plasma_rifle) a few hours into the game and never let go. I got it via a quest, and this is my preference. I honestly hope they stick to what they did with FO3 in this regard.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:31 pm

Something I really missed in Oblivion was legendary items/artifacts. Sure, there was some really good artifacts. Umbra sword, all the daedric artifacts, etc. Some quest rewards were also very nice.
BUT, my point is: I don't think ALL legendary items/artifacts should be related to quests. In Oblivion, they basically were. I honestly don't remember a really great artifact that I got from somewhere other than a quest.

In Morrowind, things were different. There, some of the legendary items/artifacts were related to quests (especially Mages Guild and Temple quests and of course the main quest ) but far from all were. Many of the artifacts in Morrowind were something you stumbled upon when you randomly searched dungeons, heard a mysterious rumour, or did some completely other quest that related to that specific dungeon and not to that specific artifact. I think this was really good. A very nice balance, which I hope to see in Skyrim too.

In addition, I think legendary items/artifacts in Skyrim should be stronger/better, like how they were in Morrowind. They should also be hard to get... and be well hidden. I remember when I first discovered the artifact Eleidon's Ward.
It was high up near the ceiling in a long forgotten, well protected, well locked daedric room in a cave. I mean, that's simply awesome. It's things like this that makes it feel really worth searching everywhere. You never knew if you were about to find another legendary item.

Do you agree?

I think that having legendary items scattered throughout the world is dangerous for the beginner player's enjoyment of the game. If the item is not bound to a faction quest-line or daedric quest, then there is no way to impose a minimum level to acquire the artifact. This means that one could accidentally come across a dungeon early on in the game, collect an amazing and legendary powerful weapon, and then completely overpower their adversaries until their level or game progress catches up to that item's power. I know that it is great fun to have ultimate power over your enemies for a little while, but it gets old fast, and the designers probably don't want people to come across something legendary that they have not even earned and then feel as though the world is not balanced properly, ...then get bored and walk away.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:07 pm

I think the book, tamrielic lore should be updated. I'd like to know more about legendary artifacts that are not in the book as well as more elaborate stories and accounts of current and known artifacts that are perhaps..already in the book.

Knowing my weapon/armor/accessory has a rich history and some meaning makes it all the more favorable to use.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:44 pm

I agree 100%

I want uber-powerful artifacts - that feel powerful when I use them in the game (the WOW factor and OMG that was so cool !!) I also want them to be well hidden, way off the beaten path (tops of mountains, bottom of alpine lakes, buried beneath a cemetery, inside the stomach of a wandering legendary creature - you get the idea) Make finding these powerful artifacts a quest upon itself (not a 5min quest either, a long, drawn out one - after all, the journey should mask the reward given)

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:19 pm

I think that having legendary items scattered throughout the world is dangerous for the beginner player's enjoyment of the game. If the item is not bound to a faction quest-line or daedric quest, then there is no way to impose a minimum level to acquire the artifact. This means that one could accidentally come across a dungeon early on in the game, collect an amazing and legendary powerful weapon, and then completely overpower their adversaries until their level or game progress catches up to that item's power. I know that it is great fun to have ultimate power over your enemies for a little while, but it gets old fast, and the designers probably don't want people to come across something legendary that they have not even earned and then feel as though the world is not balanced properly, ...then get bored and walk away.

That's the point, it's awesome to stumble across an artifact, that is exactly what a lot of us want. And to prevent a level one from getting such an item, it's easy to simply place higher leveled enemies in the area, making it extremely hard to get to it. And if you do get it, you've actually earned, making it even better. I think one of the most disapointing moments in oblivion, was when i realized every single special item had to come from a quest, I still remember how empty that felt :/

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:12 am

Definitely agree with the OP. it would be cool to come up with some sort of ability to disassemble/re-forge/ certain equipment. Maybe take a low level legendary sword and some resources or another low level legendary item to a blacksmith and they make a more powerful item out of it.

Also, what about some sort of buff if you are equipped with a set of legendary items ? For example, there might be chestplate/greaves/gauntlet/etc that were all made from a certain legendary blacksmith or enhanced with a spell that if they are all worn together produce greater magic or other attributes ?

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:41 am

I think that having legendary items scattered throughout the world is dangerous for the beginner player's enjoyment of the game. If the item is not bound to a faction quest-line or daedric quest, then there is no way to impose a minimum level to acquire the artifact. This means that one could accidentally come across a dungeon early on in the game, collect an amazing and legendary powerful weapon, and then completely overpower their adversaries until their level or game progress catches up to that item's power. I know that it is great fun to have ultimate power over your enemies for a little while, but it gets old fast, and the designers probably don't want people to come across something legendary that they have not even earned and then feel as though the world is not balanced properly, ...then get bored and walk away.

That is why you don't have enemies that level up with you and you make the enemies in this hidden dungeon very hard so that a beginner cannot just get an awesome weapon and own everyone in the game. If the whole world levels up with you then it needs to be quest based and only reachable at a certain level.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:04 am

Also, what about some sort of buff if you are equipped with a set of legendary items ? For example, there might be chestplate/greaves/gauntlet/etc that were all made from a certain legendary blacksmith or enhanced with a spell that if they are all worn together produce greater magic or other attributes ?

I agree with this partly. It's a great idea, but it musn't be overdone. If it's implemented, then only one or two sets should be able to be buffed. And those legendary artifacts in the sets should have something to do with each other.
If then, that would be awesome

That is why you don't have enemies that level up with you and you make the enemies in this hidden dungeon very hard so that a beginner cannot just get an awesome weapon and own everyone in the game. If the whole world levels up with you then it needs to be quest based and only reachable at a certain level.

Exactly. I agree so much with it that I must underline it

And, those powerful artifacts that are very well-hidden in the game should be placed on... places hard to find hehe. And places very hard to get nearby. A very bold low leveled traveler that is an amazing adventurer should be able to find "medium" powerful artifacts if he or she looks closely enough. That way, you feel that you deserve it.

In Morrowind, there were also a tendency that the most powerful legendary artifacts were far away from where the game started. There were a few "medium powerful" legendary artifacts near the start...

Spoiler

Mentor's ring for instance which there was also a rumour about!

They weren't powerful enough for you to own every enemy... far from. But they did help and it felt really nice when you found it so early, actually. The very very powerful hidden artifacts should be in places that are far away... far away from where you start the game (I think).

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:22 am

I haven't read everything in the topic so some things might be repeated... in fact... they probably all will be...

As said on first page. Level scaling LEGENDARY items was just.... bad.... in Oblivion.

Also one of the first posts stipulated in Morrowind you could just stumble upon legendary artifacts. This is TRUE, however most if not all (I haven't done everything in the game... even after ..... many many years) are found in quests (or at least the quest brings you to the location where it is hidden, if you find it or not depends on you). Its just they are there whether you take the said quest or not. And seeing as there is a ridiculously huge amount of quests in Morrowind, your bound to find a bunch without doing the quests.The difference lies where in Oblivion often the only way to get them was to take the quests as they were GIVEN to the player and not FOUND.

I personnaly think the way Morrowind did it on this particular question, was perfect. Its ok to have some given only in quests, but Morrowind did that too*, so again on this question, MW = perfect.

*Goldbrand in Morrowind for example.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:12 pm

No, I disagree. Artifacts come from the daedra princes they represent. I like how TESII Daggerfall had it set up. If you wanted an artifact, you had to summon a prince on its summoning day. I'd like to see something like that, to where if you are worthy enough, you'll be given a quest to do something for the daedric prince, and then receive the artifact. And after about a year or so, the artifact would disappear from your possession, since they are in fact, just lesser daedra bound in the form of an object.

I do not think daedric artifacts should be stumbled upon in dungeons. Maybe some daedric weapons, but not artifacts. Those disappear after a while any ways. Which would explain why you could get Azura's ring in TES II, III and IV.

» Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:13 am

I haven't read everything in the topic so some things might be repeated... in fact... they probably all will be...

As said on first page. Level scaling LEGENDARY items was just.... bad.... in Oblivion.

Also one of the first posts stipulated in Morrowind you could just stumble upon legendary artifacts. This is TRUE, however most if not all (I haven't done everything in the game... even after ..... many many years) are found in quests (or at least the quest brings you to the location where it is hidden, if you find it or not depends on you). Its just they are there whether you take the said quest or not. And seeing as there is a ridiculously huge amount of quests in Morrowind, your bound to find a bunch without doing the quests.The difference lies where in Oblivion often the only way to get them was to take the quests as they were GIVEN to the player and not FOUND.

I personnaly think the way Morrowind did it on this particular question, was perfect. Its ok to have some given only in quests, but Morrowind did that too*, so again on this question, MW = perfect.

*Goldbrand in Morrowind for example.

Yes, you are right. But I remember, to be honest, most (or like 50%) of the artifacts to be found unrelated to quest stories themselves. By this, I mean that if you were told in a quest to go into a specific dungeon, you also could find a legendary artifact that weren't mentioned at all in the quest. And then, some artifacts were only heard by rumours... and then some were completely unheard of until you found them.
Morrowind had a good balance of items achieved in quests, heard by rumours and completely unknown.

Oblivion's way of giving artifacts was just... how do I express it!?!? :chaos:

No, I disagree. Artifacts come from the daedra princes they represent.
I do not think daedric artifacts should be stumbled upon in dungeons. Maybe some daedric weapons, but not artifacts. Those disappear after a while any ways. Which would explain why you could get Azura's ring in TES II, III and IV.

Actually, most artifacts in Morrowind were not of daedric origin. Most were from ancient powerful leaders, wizards, warriors, knights, etc...
I don't mind a few really powerful daedric artifacts to be forgotten somewhere or wielded by someone powerful. It implies that other people have done deeds for the Daedra themselves and been rewarded, or that the Daedra have left something behind...
When I have a daedric artifact, I want to keep it forever!! Sounds kinda selfish

but it's my opinion ^^