Stupid, disapointing, repetitive, pointless and underwhelming?

TES96:
Haven't had the chance to play daggerfall or Arena as arena bugs everytime i try to play it on my DOS emulator and that discouraged me from trying daggerfall.... But what you said sounds great. Only take the amount of Daedric artifacts in Morrowind, there were a lot of artifacts that might have had an "affiliation" if you like to a certain daedra without being a deadric artifact, point being ONLY having -daedric- artifacts, isnt cool. we want more!!!!

Also I haven't looked into TES lore in a while but I'm not entirely sure Skyrim has a lot of Daedra worship.... (just checked imperial library XD )
They have their own gods as well as some shared with the imperial cult it seems. And I dont think theres going to be as many mers running around in Skyrim as in the other games so logically there wouldnt be an as pronounced daedric presence...obviously this is speculation, but Id be expecting more ancestral artifacts and stuff. You know, legend stuff.

hlvr:
I really can't say how to express it, a lot of words come to mind but none really ... fit...

EDIT: wow...infernal nailed it...

Needs to quoted again with the caveat that if at a lower level you painstakingly find a way to get the artifact and get out alive in a moment that a good idea combined with fluky luck comes off and you know that if anything went wrong you would have been dead and a repeat performance on another character is unlikely to happen you get to enjoy your spoils because everything your level and under dies, you can now handle locations you other wise couldn't but still get killed if you get too cocky

Edit:@ Tes96 I actually agree with you on the Daedric artifacts, but think lesser non Deadric (not as powerful but still fairly powerful) items as placed loot would still be a nice idea

Which is the entire essence of great rpg progression

No I disagree. Once you find them in a game, you'll know where they are on the next games you'll start and you'll be very powerful with very little effort. Morrowind was very unbalanced in that way, you could become very strong just by knowing where the artifacts are (sometimes you'd see it in the forums, uesp or find in a previous save game). The only way this could work was if an artifact's place was randomized when you started a new game, and put in 1 of the many daedric shrines for example. But that would be pretty boring, because you'd want the artifact every game and you'd have to search many shrines just to find it.

The best thing to do is to make artifacts quest-related, and make them good, but not very good. If it was up to me I wouldn't put any artifact at all... When most people start a game they want to have a character with good equipment, so why wouldn't they look up on uesp and get the artifacts they need? And how is that fun, becoming powerful without leveling or using any money?

BTB's game improvements mod for morrowind changed all the artifacts effect, because they were all so powerful, while being easy to get. Don't ask for Bethesda to do the same mistake as they did in Morrowind, in that matter.

You aren't thinking of replayability. Yeah having super strong artifacts on well hidden places would be very cool when you just started playing TESV, but how would it be fun in the next game? There would be no exploring and no satisfaction for getting the artifact this time, you'd just go to the place you already knew, get it and get strong without any effort.

Sorry but this was the most terrible idea I've seen on this forum.

I wouldn't want to play an RPG without unique weapons. ANd yea it lowers replay value, but without there is no first-play value at all. Noone is forcing you to look the locations up, that's just silly. And as already stated handplaced items would usually be placed near enemies matching the items strength, so you couldn't just run and get the best gear from the very beginning. So what you'd rather have an entire randomzied world where nothing feels special? God I hope you don't get your way :S

Also, you talk of exploring? What's the point of exploring if there is no reward to it? Random generated items are boring and doesn't feel rewarding, which is why a lot of people like unique powerful items you could run into.
ANother point about replay value, in Morrowind I didn't find all of the unique items after my 4th playthrough, which is more than enough replayability imo.

Besides the reduction or removal of level scaling ,this is most likely the most important thing in the game for me.

(sorry if this post seems scattered, edited it 3-4 times as the thoughts came to me ^^ )

If Skyrim has something on par with the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4582, that'd be amazing

It seems your problem with the idea is that they make it easy to become too powerful.

Making all artifacts quest-related is neither a good idea imo... because:
1) it still allows you to easily just do the quest every time you start a new game. You know which quest it is. If it's a final quest in a guild, you can rush through the other guild quests to get it fast, and so on.
2) it brings back what 84% of the people voted in this thread dislikes, which I speaks for itself. A great majority seem to want items to be found in specific places in the world. A great majority seem to want this feature of Morrowind... so I wouldn't really call it a mistake.

I see no problem in becoming powerful in an RPG like TES through gaining artifacts. Why? Because you should have to work really hard to get them. Either by fighting or exploring or searching or thinking
I've played Morrowind like 7-8 times and haven't found it boring because I knew where the artifacts were. I also didn't look on uesp and I also didn't, as soon as I started the game, went to find the artifacts and be a god early. I think that this is up to the player.
I believe that, concerning replayability, it would be a lot more boring to have random artifacts everywhere. A lot more boring, since they don't really mean anything.

then you haven't seen much. and besides, if i replay oblivion i'm going to know which quests will reward me with legendaries so it's basically the same thing.
and if they're hidden well you may not even find them at all. i remember in morrowind i never found that enchanted ebony broadsword in balmora until my fourth playthrough.
it may not have been legendary but i believe it was unique and a lot more powerful than my chitin dagger...

Exploring would be for quests, equipment (like daedric armor, and there would be a small chance of someone wearing it), gold, looking for grand souls, training your combat skills, etc...



Invisibility potion.



Ok nobody forces me to look it up, but once you find an item you'll know where it is the next games. You have to assume every single aspect of the game will be attempted to be abused, so that argument isn't valid. That was what Morrowind showed: easy money (mudcrab, creeper, many expensive stuff just waiting to be picked up), easy to get powerful artifacts, 5x attributes (which gave a lot of work and was boring for many people). It's immersion breaking if you know an artifact is in x place or you know there is an easy way to make money and then you don't use it. If that character was you, wouldn't you want to get easy money and powerful items?

Random generated open world is generic, boring and doesn't give much feeling of reward, this goes for enviroment, leveling and loot.

Quests are just as premade as handplaced items.

Then nerf insibility potions, not the item system that made Morrowind the greatest open world RPG to date.

As I already stated, it takes several playthrough to fgind everything, so you wont automatically know where everything is.

The problem with easy money was the creeper/mudcrap merchant, not the handplaced items, this could just as easily be exploited with random generated lloot.

It's not immersion breaking to know where stuff is, it's just a result having been replaying the game over and over again, that's like saying it's immersion breaking because the mainquest is the same everytime, not valid.

Who's talking about easy to get powerful artifacts, we're talking about well-hidden, well protected, cleverly placed artifacts that makes the experience feel rewarding.

Yeah, I agree with the majority who favor a Morrowind-like approach.

Yes, you could ruin the experience for yourself by noting where every Legendary item/artifact you come across is located and then just making the runs on your next file...but that's not a problem inherent in the game or it's approach to items and artifacts. That's a problem that comes from your deliberate approach to taking the fun out of the game on your next play through.

A system like this creates an actual incentive for exploration. It also creates something called "Challenge" which was sorely lacking from Oblivion. You seem to think that at Level 3 one would be able to easily run into the dungeon that holds the Daedric Claymore pick it up and run back out, but taking a Morrowind approach that dungeon would be populated by goons of level 20 or higher and they would proceed to eviscerate you quite quickly...instead of a handful of scamps and a clannfear or two.

Thanks for stating what I think most people here agree about.
I quote and underline it for increased effect

If this is the case, +1

I think there should be a quest or two for permanent, reasonably powerful items that will last through the middle part of the game.

Noone here is saying there shouldn't be unique powerful items from quests, all we're saying is that we also want handplaced items throughout the world

I agree with that too. I also think there should be some quest items that are not just laying around...if that is what you mean by hand placed.

Which is what I said, I think we all agree that some quests should also reward the player with unique items, glad we are on the same page

Hand placed doesn't necessarily mean placed by hand on the ground. It just refers to items/NPCs that are deliberately located in a certain position.

So if a Daedric Tower Shield is placed behind a tomb deep in a Dwemer Ruin, that's hand placed.

If it that same Dwemer Ruin there is a crazy Altmer Mage who has a Dwemer Warhammer that Burdens, Paralyzes, and Silences, that too is hand placed.

Also, I think I know what I'll be making in Skyrim. I'll call it "Sit Down and Shut Up"

I completely agree. Ideally I'd enjoy a system identical to Morrowinds, with the risk balancing the reward. Very few artifacts were easily accessible and the ones that were weren't that great anyway.

Ye, hopefully we'll know once GI comes out, however I doubt that is the sort of stuff they would cover in the first batch of information

I just hope they include the most epicly Uber deadric artifact of them all: The Fishy Stick.

epics are epic

anyway I hope we get a better magic item generator this time like in diablo 2 and maybe set items and cool rare items as well.

oblivion had a challenge, a challenge TO HAVE FUN

Ba dom dish