So what is it like as a civilian in the legion or is it just slaves and a few soldiers watching over them, Caesar says they have cities of their own and im guessing that they produce food and supplies but im wondering if they have an actual structured society or if they just have soldiers and slaves with the slaves doing the farming and herding and making stuff while the legionaries guard them.

A civilian population is implied, but it is never said either way. Perhaps if the game were given more dev-time, that area you can see on the East of the Colorado River would be explorable and have more tangible reasons for why Legion is a good option for the West. Unfortunately, we just get to see their invading force with a couple NPCs (The trader at the Fort and Raul) to back them up as well as the rhetoric of Caesar himself.

I'm really hoping for the next game set in the West to show the civilian aspect of the Legion.

Legion has its own civilization and such, possibly some where their own religion, etc. A boy trains to be a soldier at a young age, unlike the NCR whom takes them in and trains them only for probably during their war times a week. The part of Legion we - The Courier - sees is their Militray, quite possabily behind their front line is a whole different land in which we don't know of for we have only seen JUST their military. Chances are there are more slaves, and possibly civilians are experienced Legionares who have gone past their prime in age - or perhaps some one who had done their part.. by that I'm refering to like how we give a metal to War Heros, possibly citizens of the Legion are elderly or have done something like that.

That being said - Legion's citizens would have a lot more pampery in that case compared to our own in real lives compared to their apocalyptic circumstances. Probably fed every day. given enough water, x) maybe even their stuff picked up after through slaves.

Well according to what I know they use a form of currency.
They allow trade of slaves.
There isn't anything hinting that citizens aren't allowed to use medicine.
When Primm is taken over by one of the endings they don't mention any slavery of the females so it's possible that only tribes and others they capture become workforce and breeders. And since the Courier can be female and join Legion it's very probable that there are female citizens as well.
Their land is also more secure and traders and others can travel through them with little to no risk of hostility.

For me they're conquering method is like this:
If it's a tribe, they'll conquer it, men will become legionnaires or be killed, children will be indoctronated into Legion's culture as either slaves or legionnaires, the old might be killed of and the women will be taken as breeders.
If a tribe is already highly religious it might be too hard to convert them so they might be killed off completely.
If a tribe is out of control it will be put to death.



Now, if a settlement, mine or town with civilized people that don't live a life of debauchery is conquered they allow them citizenship if they don't oppose them.
How I cam to this conclusion are three things:

Let's take Nipton, not only did it serve as a strategical move to cause morale to go down for NCR traders and the army but it served no purpose, it's people who weren't of any use were put to death and those ablebodied were taken as slaves. Nipton was a place of debauchery that served no point as it had no production, no agriculture and, no economic standpoint that served it's area.

Next up is Novac, it was a settlement that was independent and liked it that way, Legion wanted to take it but due to their value of independence and their NCR affiliation through Manny, Boone and that other NCR guy it was attacked and put down because it did not accept Legion rule.

And finally we have the prime example of Primm.
In one ending it gets conquered by Legion but it's citizens are allowed their freedom under Legion's control.
Why? Cause Primm served a point, it was a reststop that could still be used for caravans to take a break at. It had a motel, a general store, a mail service and a casino. We don't know what Legions views of gambling are but Caesar seems pretty invested in New Vegas and Primm was taken peacefully in this ending so it's possible they quite like it.

So if you live in a place filled with debauchery and Legion comes'a'knocking? Then you're screwed.
If you live in a place that has NCR affiliations and is way too into independence? Then you're screwed.
But if you live in a place that actually served a point, that is pure at heart and willing to accept Legion's rule? Then you are going to become a citizen.


That's my views on Legion civilians and how Legion conquers places.

^^^
This, that's pretty much the Legion's expanding stragety but some things in game and said by Sawyer contradict that. For instance, when you speak to the Legate about supply lines in the Mojave and point out how most of the towns have already been destroyed he speaks of (an enacts) slavery and destruction of Vegas, compared to Caesar who treats it like his new Rome. It seems to be that Primm is a odd ball in the Legion's normal way of handling things once Legate comes to power although Primm seems standard as long as Caesar is in charge. Caesar is trying to build a civilization while Legate just wants to continue having a roaming army.

Yup. Lanius would be horrible to lead the Legion as Caesar II.
If he became in charge and won the battle that is, then Ulysses' prediction would come through.
Legion wouldn't learn anything and once it reached the coast it would have nothing to strive for and since it's built around war it will have so many internal conflicts that it will fall apart.

Best Legion outcome IMO is that Caesar wins and fully implements his synthesis.
Or that Lanius lives but Caesar dies then the battle is won for House and Lanius is told to back down and return home.

The synthesis would change the Legion into a real empire.
And Lanius would change once he got back home as he states he means to strengthen the Legion's lands, not just military but economically and in production.
So he will in turn change for the better and learn how to become a leader and learn the difference between a functioning thriving society and a military war machine.

There is of course the third option but I consider it a real gamble, Caesar and Lanius both dies and someone else takes the throne, like Vulpes or Lucius or another high ranking member back in Flagstaff which we've yet to see or hear about as he handles civil affairs mostly.
But it's very likely Legion would become broken in their faith, and without faith the Legion would become cavemen again and kill each other for power.

So Lanius winning with Caesar dead? Horrible outcome for the entire western side of the US.
Both of them dying? Horrible outcome for the entire western side of the US.
Synthesis? Most promising one which states Legion will change.
Lanius returning home? Also very promising, but hardly as promising as the Synthesis.

Best choice though, story-wise. Is for Caesar to die and for Lanius to return home.
That way the entire Mojave and California doesn't fall under the Legion Empire but Legion is still allowed to survive and make an appearance in the next game, most likely changed from it's years of strengthening their lands economically, military and with production, perhaps even in technology and culture.

^^^^^^ That was beautiful man...

I believe what he said should actually sum up the question. x) -Envious almost.-

I think Primm was kept as it was the nearest town to the NCR border, a good place to gather troops when planning to atttack them.

that said, they also leave goodsprings alone although that might be due the the crouier.



this although Good, do you have proof this would happen is Lanius went back home? he's a butcher not a thinker plus several people including Ceasar do not want him to lead the legion, who says they might hve a go at leadership?




personally i wouldn't mind seeing legion in another Game BUT in the early days, Josh still legate, a young ceasar etc.

Time travels not possible, nor will they, Bethesda, do it.

Caesar has stated that he has "We have cities of our own, but nothing compared to Vegas..." to me this would mean they have civilized people doing "average Joe" stuff like farming, building and shopkeeping. Crime is nonexistent in their lands because of how well they enforce law there, so maybe there is a tough presence of military guards stationed every few blocks - possible Frumentarii amoung the people reporting any suspicious behaviour to said guards.
I'd say the men who are born into the Legion but aren't fit enough to be soldiers and not too unfit to be killed are given work on building the homelands along with the women.
The people we see in the Fort, I take to be recently enslaved women who are part of NCR or unknown tribes, those born into the Legion are given their place back home but can never serve in the Army.
The Legion have their own currency, coins, so they should have some structure in earning and spending those coins: Earning would be through work on the farms, construction and scavenging useful materials/weapons, and obviously spending it on food/drink and other misc things needed to live, also trading with any caravans who deal with Legion.

It's all assumption until a Dev or someone says otherwise.

Why?
Cause Legion is about change.
Every single ending changes the Legion apart from Lanius winning with Caesar dead.
Legion's design is change, for the better, for the worse, doesn't matter, it was never designed to stay the same.

And once Lanius returns home he will have to take on new responsibilities.
He will have to cast aside his sword for years to deal with internal problems and strengthen his lands.
When he is finally away from all the bloodshed, when he's finally able to open his eyes then I think that he will realize that everything can't be solved by slaughtering it.

So it's speculation, but Legion is about change, wouldn't make much sense at all for him to stay exactly the same after years of ruling as Caesar II.

I expect its alot like normal NCR civilian life. Every civilization has been like that, they may have had slavery but they still had normal civilians doing jobs, they may have been focused on war but they still had aplain old backbone of average epople. Its not possible for the Legion to support anything or function without some sort of base, plus that trader guy at the Fort basically says it aint much different from the NCR other than their being no taxes.

We'll never know! I highly doubt it will be addressed in later games or add-ons. I'd love to see actual civilians in CL and their home lands. So if anybody wants to make a mod that would be awesome!!! I will buy FONV all over again just to play with a full CL

Caesar is a very smart fellow. I imagine in parts already conquered or after he's done with his campaign he will set up a system very Similar to the Roman Republic, down to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Citizenship system Rome had.
You don't really bring Citizens with you to war, unless they're slaves of course.

Depending on his own ambitions and views on the situation and Rome he may either set it up as the Empire or Republic of Rome. I feel when (the real) Caesar switched over to the Empire of Rome, that set in motion it's downfall.
I would like to see a Republic in future games, just to see a return of it.

Caesar in my opinion is smart, but i seriously hate he′s little legion. They are nothing more then warlords trying to take the land of everyone else. They are like a savage version of NCR.

We don't know anything concrete about the civilian life of the Legion. The closest thing to a Legion civilian we see is the trader Dale Barton in the Fort who just seems...like a normal person. I'm not a Legion supporter and I've only done one Legion playthrough on New Vegas, but their society is very interesting and this is why my prime choice for the next Obsidian developed Fallout is Arizona. I'd really like to see Flagstaff.

Out of interest (as I know little about Caesar's Legion in game) what aspects of Ancient Rome would have been implemented in Legion lands already? Just speculation of course, but is there a Senate? A Colisseum where NCR prisoners fight Yao Guai? Do Caesar and Vulpes Inculta discuss philosophy at the bathhouse?

Seeing as there was a civil war, and the world ended im pretty sure Caesar would wish thats how it was
But...

Well Caesar views it as something not yet an Empire, since he wants to capture Vegas in order to crown it his 'Rome' and turn his nomadic tribe into an Empire based in and around Vegas. They already have a gladiator ring, those existed well before the real Caesar, and that's evident in the Fort were you are pitted againist slaves and NCR captives - much like in the real Roman times.
For what we see of civilian life we don't know if there are bathhouse or domestic showers in each home. Does anyfaction actually shower or bathe when I think about it

So right now Legion is at the point of Roman Republic, soon to become a fully fledged Empire dominating America for hundreds of years!!

Caesars legion isn't a complete mirror of Roman society, it's just loosely based off it. Some aspects strongly.
Caesar picked and choose the aspects of Roman society and their military as the model. As he thought those aspects he chose out were what the wasteland best needed for it's current era.

Debatably for the region he grew out of, filled with dozens of various squabbling minor tribes, he could be right. Take out overemphasis on military service and women, the region's probably better off.

Not everything from ancient Rome was carried on to the Legion however.
There wouldn't be a republic or senate for instance, it wouldn't make sense. Caesars legion moved directly from inception into an Imperial system. As in having an emperor as absolute monarch.
I could see the Legion having prefects over various provinces as Rome did, but a senate would be a stretch. There's no reason for it, any Emperor wouldn't arbitrarily set up a republic to rival him. It would be an unnecessary power threat. Caesar himself viewed the NCR and republics as inferior to his vision of what things should be for the region. They are his trading military carthage and democratic greece in one.

What I gather, he desires a proto-feudalistic system in the end, along the lines of Rome excluding the aspect of democracy. Basically a monarchy with less knighthood and a more roman model for society and military setup.

All that said, the Legion is going to have to see social changes if it's going to become a long lasting entity. The emphasis on war and expansion alone, and gearing the entire culture toward that as the staple of society to the neglect of everything else, wasn't what made Rome great, either. Merely another aspect.
That scheme would fall apart in a few generations. Either by exhaustive collapse or consuming itself within. The culture works perfectly for it's ends in the current era though. So that is going to have to transform somewhat.

Caesar's Legion should become the Imperial Kingdom of Flagstaff. In function anyway, the name stinks. The Caesar needs to be home addressing domestic issues.

My guess would simply be you have slaves that work and get food and places to stay while wealthy and older former legionaries are in charge of them and the government is simply military officers, then there are traders and such that have special deals with the legion.
\

There is some type of harshness involved, because when they take Vegas it says something about people not enjoying it.

Edit:I It says "as unforgiving as it was --the civilization had finally come to the wasteland"

Exactly, thanks for that info People dont like the Legion, and this bro here just helped me prove it. LEGION ARE BAD.
Glad we set that straight now lets go kill some main faction scumbags.

Boomers are bad, Khans are bad, NCR IS BAD, YOUR FACE IS BAD. I say we just kill everybody, pretty legit plan right?

Great plan! I'll get right on it.

No Vegas needs allies, bad or not. Spare the Khans and Boomers and you got yourself a great piece of army ready to support you. BoS are kinda bad to, since they are merely just tech raiders with a machine fetish (dont ask, but they took Fisto)