To call the NCR evil is a bit overly dramatic. I see them as more an animal that loves to eat but lacks the trait that tells them when they are full, continuing to consume all in it's path until it bursts from eating to much to fast.

True to Caesar!

The Legion did something that NCR didnt, handle a bunch of raiders on drugs, What the NCR got triying to do that, one of them got .... well you know, get along in an .... dramatic way, and other got captured

Also, Caesar does not like drugs, thats a good thing, makes the Soldiers and its Superiors stay clean of the corruption and vicious, they also does not rely on guns, so, in case that they got jammed, they can use their melee weapons or going unarmed

Excellent way to put it. As Cass said, hopefully Ceasars Leigon will be the kick in the balls that the NCR needs to realise they're moving too far and too fast.

the ncr are just criminals wearing masks

I fail to see how luring enemies into a minefield is "dishonorable"....unless Hanlon didn't evacuate the civilians from Boulder City beforehand, something I doubt...only a fool enters a enemy city and not expect trouble.

It amazes me what people deliberately overlook in thier defense of the Legion or insistance that they "don't have enough information" to make a decision.

-the near total reliance on terror to get people not to resist them or to help them. Some like to pretend that Incuta is doing this without Caesar's knowlege, too bad both Caesar and Lanius are happy to tell you different. The Courier is about the only person the Legion tries to woo....and that is only because he/she has attracted the personal interest of Caesar. The courier's initial meeting with Inculta, Dead Sea and the Centurion at Cottonwood Cove would probably have gone differently if they had not received prior instructions regarding him/her.

-thier habit of enslaving women and killing captured males too old to indoctrinate as Legionnaires....unless again, they capture Caesar's attention.

-The fact they condone cannibalism. The commander of Cottonwood Cove is a cannibal, and part of Caesar's pitch to the White Gloves is that he will bless thier reversion to cannibalism if they agree to serve him and administer the Strip in his name after his victory. In a CL run Mojave, not only do you have to worry about your new rulers buying your wives and daughters off the auction block to be thier six slaves, they (and/or you) might end up bleeding out on a meathook in a slaughterhouse for people.

-They practice human sacrifice. If you do a Legion run, you get to interrupt Lanius while he is sacrificing prisoners and slaves to his God Caesar to beseech him to allow the attack on the Dam....to let him know his prayers have finally been answered.

Maybe things won't be so bad for what lucky few don't end up roasted alive on a pyre of truck tires, on a cross, adorning the end of a pike with one's head, used as a live training aid in the Arena, torn from one's husband or parents and sold to be used for six by the Legion, or on the menu at La Gourmand....but it seems to me helping Caesar or Lanius condemns a lot of innocent people in the Mojave and eventually the NCR to untimely ends so Caesar and his Lieutenants can turn the clock back to 700AD and live like barbarian Kings. Compared to that even the corrupt, incompetent, and greedy old NCR looks pretty good. Even if the NCR falls apart parts of it are strong enough to survive on thier own and keep the light of Civilization lit.....once Caesar is gone the CL's Empire will dissolve into something even worse than what it was before Caesar.

Def NCR, there is no logical reasons to put any other factions in charge, the best pick is simply the NCR, besides messed up politics like any other group, there goals are the most moral and best for society.

Btw, After i iced Cesar i ripped his Tumor out his head for a trophy

And, what defense do you have for defending NCR? Saying 'There is no other logical choice' is not a reasonable defense.

Im gonna be flamed and bashed for this, but, I preffer the slaver than the NCR itself, REMEMBER BITTERSPRING




Its just a game, I also am supporter of the Enclave and to a lesser extent, The Dark Broterhood of TES,



Evil is Cool

This alone is likely to get a torch put on you, but before that happens, the things we argue over arent the game, but the themes and philosophy presented to us.

Yes, I know, but looks like that is bad to support an evil faction, not like that I am evil in real life, but I just preffer the dark side than the good side

After having a lengthy discussion with Caesar tonight at the camp, I've gotten all the information
from him I need to come to the conclusion that the Legion is nothing but a band of
low-life bloodthirsty scum, who kill and terrorize, hate and victimize women,
kill women, children and the elderly with Glee, commit genocide if need be,
and are the lowest form of creatures in the world of New Vegas.

All of this information was given to me freely from Caesars own mouth.

People who honestly think everything would be "OK",
living under the yoke of oppression under the Legion, and that there's
not enough info about them to make a decision about them,
obviously have not talked to all the Legion characters you can have dialogs with,
and would think it was great to live in a Real Life country
where a certain type of law is practiced where pretty much every enjoyable thing
is forbidden and you will be beaten in the street if you violate any of those laws.

How about the part where Caesar mentions the 'punishment' to keep the soldiers in line?

All the men are lined up, every 10th man steps forward and is beaten to death by his peers.

Give me the NCR any day, at least they won't kill me for smiling or whistling a tune.

You have a point, but The Vipers, Powder Gangers, etc, they are 'evil', but Caesars Legion is a 'Greater Good' faction, they have good intentions through harsh methods.

The Enclave do something like that but nobody is complaining about that



Emm, I dont want to live with him in Real Life, but since that this the Wasteland, I rather them than any other Faction (Or the Enclave, that was my second option)

And yes, I did all the dialogues with him and with every person in their camps to know what I am supporting :wink_smile:

Also, scums? Ever watched how Fiends and Powder Gangers handle their problems???, even Legion has their standards

Where's the enclave in the New Vegas game?

Otherwise I'd complain about them too

I also noticed, that you only cherry picked "Commit Genocide" while ignoring all the other horrors the legion commits

If you mean the fans, some people like to use that to counter an Enclave supporter. But what some people fail to realize supporting an ideal doesnt mean you support it's methods.

Off topic:
Lol That's due to them being inept lemmings.
Who use Darwinian metheods to make the fitest survive, unfortunatly it's just not them.
Due to being PA lemmings with the survival instict of a dodo, and everyone loves Darwinian lemmings, and Einstein Dodo's.

On topic:
From what I've seen and played through, the Legion would win at a fight just between the two.
Not that they should or would irl, just that in game there's little chance for NCR to win, going by the last quests.

This is possibly the most hilarious post I'll read on the internet tonight and tomorrow :laugh:

haha yeah right, sure it is. I will lay it out for you right here.

1. The legion is crazy period. The way they run things is barbaric, old fashioned to the point no society would accept it other than strong Superior beings, that are crazy. Everyone is against them, except the moron khans who have been pushed into the mountains anyways because nobody wants there crazy ways around.

2. The Followers are a good pick, but you can argue the facts that they lack in numbers, Any faction can easily out gun them and push them around. There are simply not enough of them and there beliefs hinder them. they would not be willing to do what it takes to control the wasteland. But the NCR work with them anyways.

3. The 'BOS' are falling apart and its proven there are split apart, so count them out, they wont accept the waste landers having certain technology that they will most likely end up needing to rebuild. So 'BOS' Fail :thumbsdown:

4. Khans Fail, If you say them you must be dumb.

5. Mr. House, He is selfish and keeps to many secrets, anyone would be a fool to give into his demands. Sounds like he wants his dictatorship to last alot longer.

6. Yes Man, would be a even more poor choice than Mr House because you do not know crap about yes man, and if you do yes mans storyline you would understand this even more.

7. Other than these factions, the rest Fail all the way. This is more than enough evidence that the NCR should rule.

NCR is the best but out off all the Factions only two want to rule the Mojave. NCR and Legion which is what the topic is about. NCR would be the best because they have laws and morals. Sure they use underhanded methods to get that they want and it has its share of corrupt leaders and brahmin barons but what democracy doesn't?

With factions like Caesar's Legion, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I agree 100%.

To all the people saying "Remember Bitter Springs!", remember that the NCR is NOT evil. They're not the type to raze a town of innocent people unless they're's a mistake in communication. Think about Boone; Is he the type to lie? He admits it was horrible and goes on to say that it was miscommunication

Going to have to agree with the Colonel on this one. House doesn't torture people and burn towns, his robots, are (probably) incapable of being corrupt like the NCR, etc. I have played all of the endings, and it's ridiculous how much better Houses's ending was for the Mojave overall. I think people just shun House in the beginning because they are ignorant and can't look into issues with thought. (puts up flame shield)

I can understand wanting to play the bad guy and amusing yourself by trampling on the masses....what irritates me is when people try to blow smoke up my ass by claiming they're doing the people in general a service by putting Caesar and his collection of woman haters, psychopaths and perverts in charge of the Mojave. They aren't, they're just condemning many to death, and many more to lives of slavery, misery and fear to satisfy the narcissistic delusions of a wannabe God-King.

As far as Bitter Springs...that has Moore's fingerprints all over it. And to be fair to the NCR, the Khans reaped what they had sown...ask Sgt. Bitter Root about what those "innocents" had been doing to civilians for years before someone finally did something about it. Probably the single biggest thing I like about the Khans is that they seem to have taken to heart the harsh lessons administered to them by House, the Three Families and the NCR and for the first time since they left Vault 15 are starting to show some compassion towards those outside thier tribe.